Special flight permit/Ferry permit

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by brien23, May 17, 2018.

  1. brien23

    brien23 Cleared for Takeoff

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    How much of a small dent in the leading edge of a wing would require a ferry permit. 1" 2" 3" 4" a foot into the wing, at what point does the special flight permit kick in. Seaplanes seem to have a few in their leading edges of the wing but land planes must be under a different set of rules as very few fly around with dents in their leading edges of their wings. Hangar rash from scratches that show a crack in the wing tip to dents, how much is too much.
     
  2. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    What is the full definition of airworthiness ?

    Does the dent change the type design?
    Is it safe for flight?
    Who makes those decisions?
     
  3. Cap'n Jack

    Cap'n Jack Final Approach

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    Depends on how large, and what else may be dented.
    If a dent is between the ribs and looks small (and this is a judgement call), I'm not worried about it. If it is on a structure such as a rib, that's a no-go- look if the dent covers a rivet. If you aren't sure, see an A&P. I've asked the rental desk to have someone look at hangar rash, if for no other reason, it was noted I wasn't the cause.
     
  4. bradg33

    bradg33 Cleared for Takeoff

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    What's your A&P think? If your A&P thinks it's safe for flight, he probably thinks it's airworthy.
     
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  5. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Float planes don't have any special exemption as far as I know as a float plane owner and pilot.
     
  6. mondtster

    mondtster Pattern Altitude

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    Before you get to the point of mechanic/IA involvement, who makes the decision that they need to be involved and how is that determination made? ;)
     
  7. bradg33

    bradg33 Cleared for Takeoff

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    I guess the answer is "it depends." How big is the dent (circumference)? How deep is it? What cause it? Is it smooth or creased? Any cracking in the skin at all? Is it on a rib or other structural part, or over a "hollow" part of the wing?

    Depending on those answers, I'm likely to fly it home without really worrying about it. If we're talking about a dent that would resemble hail damage, caused by something being dropped on the wing (and not by something running into the plane or the plane running into something), that increases the likelihood of me flying it without further question. Of course, I'm fortunate to have a couple of A&P buddies who would lend an opinion based on a picture and some additional data.
     
  8. Bell206

    Bell206 Line Up and Wait

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    Since your question is about ferry permits: if the dent exceeds the damage limits that requires a repair but the repair can't be performed at the current location and the aircraft is still safe for flight, then a ferry permit would be the preferred method to move the aircraft to an alternate location for the repair.
     
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  9. mondtster

    mondtster Pattern Altitude

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    Brad, you didn't take my statement in the direction I was hoping to go with it. I would agree with how you'd go about things though. :)

    Anyway, the dent(s) in the wing should be noticed by the pilot in command while preflighting the plane, no? Assuming that it is noticed by the pilot, is it not their job to determine if the plane is airworthy and safe for flight? If the pilot is not sure if it is safe or airworthy, what should they do then? That's what should trigger an inquiry and inspection from a mechanic or IA, no? Once the mechanic is involved they can help provide an opinion on whether the plane is ok and whether or not a ferry permit would be needed.

    Of course, a pilot could reasonably assume that an airplane just coming out of annual with a signoff stating that it is airworthy is actually airworthy, dents or no dents, at that point in time. In between annual inspections however, the burden is on the pilot to determine the condition of the airplane prior to flight.
     
  10. aftCG

    aftCG Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Well since the dent didn't appear until you were home there is no need for a ferry permit.
     
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  11. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

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  12. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    read 91.3(a),, 91.7(b),, pretty much places the decision on the pilot. then 91.405 Doesn't say it must be repaired prior to flight.

    IMHO, it is totally up to the pilot if they want to fly it.