Southern Airways Express C208 Lands on Highway Near Dulles

Seanaldinho

Seanaldinho

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Nice 90 degree turn just after breaking 1000ft above the runway. Could have ended a lot worse.
 
That's very near me. The weather is IMC for sure, but well within the capability of that plane and pro pilot if everything is working OK. I'll be interested in what happened.

Landing on that road took some skill/luck avoiding the datacenters, wires, lights, etc. Great outcome.
 
Things happened quick...


1406 - Cleared for takeoff 30, fly runway heading
1624 - Turn right 340, contact departure
1647 - MAYDAY MAYDAY
1659 - We're landing on the [unintelligible] down here
1716 - On the ground
1759 - Across from Wendy's in Aldie. All passengers and pilots are alive and well, no injuries.
 
Planes are replaceable. Great job pilots!
 
I flew as a passenger on another of their Caravans last year. Based on that experience I wasn't certain I wanted to rely on them if I really had to stick to a schedule.
 
Racerx said:
Kid wouldn't stop kickin the seat unless we got him a frosty
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Experienced that before, kids jumping rows while the flight crew was delivering hot cup noodles. I’m wondering if I did that I’d probably end up on the no fly list.
 
AquaLand said:
Although there is a locality named Aldie near this aircraft incident (just up Rt 50 to the NW), the pilot was referring to an Aldi grocery store that is adjacent to the Wendy’s.
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Thanks for the clarification!
 
no auto feather.
prop was feathered, look at how they are bent
 
Awesome outcome from what sounds like losing the engine at 800'.
 
Wagondriver said:
no auto feather.
prop was feathered, look at how they are bent
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All PT6s will feather when they are shut down unless it has a prop lock, but that’s generally only found on seaplane conversions.

It’s just a function of oil draining out of the propeller hub. Not instantaneous unless feather is selected.
 
DavidWhite said:
All PT6s will feather when they are shut down unless it has a prop lock, but that’s generally only found on seaplane conversions.

It’s just a function of oil draining out of the propeller hub. Not instantaneous unless feather is selected.
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Granted it’s been many, many years since I’ve flown a PT-6, but I do recall an auto feather function.
If the prop is windmilling sufficiently without feather, would that not keep enough oil pressure to keep the prop from feathering??

Again, it’s been since roughly 1998 since I’ve flown a PT-6.
 
Kritchlow said:
Granted it’s been many, many years since I’ve flown a PT-6, but I do recall an auto feather function.
If the prop is windmilling sufficiently without feather, would that not keep enough oil pressure to keep the prop from feathering??

Again, it’s been since roughly 1998 since I’ve flown a PT-6.
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Some planes have autofeather, like most King Air models. The Caravan does not. I seem to recall it being pretty quick after shutdown that it will go to feather, although we very rarely ever shut them down without feathering them first. Generally we would feather them rolling and shut the engines off to prevent picking up gravel. I’ve never shut one down in the air though, so no idea what kinda time frame that would be.

Most of my Caravan time is in Garret Caravans but I seem to remember during engine failure practice turning the igniters on, standby fuel pump on, verifying that both fuel tanks are on, and then trying the Emergency Power Lever, which is a backup to the fuel control unit that only exists on single-engine PT6 powered aircraft (In the PC12 it is called the MOR, or Manual Override Lever). If that was unsuccessful, feather the engine and find your spot. There’s not too many things out there that can stop a PT6, short of blowing chunks out of the exhaust, a high-pressure fuel pump failure, gearbox failure (I have never heard of one of these occurring FWIW) or an improperly handled FCU failure. Generally the soap samples on turbine engines will tell you of an impending coming-from-together event long before it happens, which pretty much just leaves the high pressure pump, gearbox, or the FCU.

FWIW, I agree with one of the above posters that the motor was making power when it hit. In the event of a FCU failure, the motor will roll back to whatever idle is set at. It is possible that this occurred and the EPL wasn’t utilized. The issue with recognizing an EPL failure is that the engine is continuing to run, but not responding to the power lever at all. Not placing blame, the pilot did an excellent job, but those blades were definitely spinning with some inertia behind them (IMO) when they started smacking something hard. A feathered, not running PT6 will not be spinning very fast (if at all).

edit: I also think that looking at the pictures the prop was feathered when it started whacking stuff, and most likely making (at minimum) idle power.
 
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DavidWhite said:
Some planes have autofeather, like most King Air models. The Caravan does not. I seem to recall it being pretty quick after shutdown that it will go to feather, although we very rarely ever shut them down without feathering them first. Generally we would feather them rolling and shut the engines off to prevent picking up gravel. I’ve never shut one down in the air though, so no idea what kinda time frame that would be.

Most of my Caravan time is in Garret Caravans but I seem to remember during engine failure practice turning the igniters on, standby fuel pump on, verifying that both fuel tanks are on, and then trying the Emergency Power Lever, which is a backup to the fuel control unit that only exists on single-engine PT6 powered aircraft (In the PC12 it is called the MOR, or Manual Override Lever). If that was unsuccessful, feather the engine and find your spot. There’s not too many things out there that can stop a PT6, short of blowing chunks out of the exhaust, a high-pressure fuel pump failure, gearbox failure (I have never heard of one of these occurring FWIW) or an improperly handled FCU failure. Generally the soap samples on turbine engines will tell you of an impending coming-from-together event long before it happens, which pretty much just leaves the high pressure pump, gearbox, or the FCU.

FWIW, I agree with one of the above posters that the motor was making power when it hit. In the event of a FCU failure, the motor will roll back to whatever idle is set at. It is possible that this occurred and the EPL wasn’t utilized. The issue with recognizing an EPL failure is that the engine is continuing to run, but not responding to the power lever at all. Not placing blame, the pilot did an excellent job, but those blades were definitely spinning with some inertia behind them (IMO) when they started smacking something hard. A feathered, not running PT6 will not be spinning very fast (if at all).

edit: I also think that looking at the pictures the prop was feathered when it started whacking stuff, and most likely making (at minimum) idle power.
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When you mentioned Garret, it also dawned on me that just because the prop may be windmilling, engine may not be, at least not nearly as fast. Forgot about about it being a free turbine.
 
I looked at the flightaware track of a subsequent 208 departure from IAD, looked like it was making 700 FPM all the way up to cruise altitude according to ADS-B. There are only a few data points, but the track of the accident flight shows a lower rate of climb.

What are the procedures with the inertial separator? It was snowing, so presumably icing conditions.
 
At 800 feet, and climb airspeed, picking and reaching a safe landing spot can be much more important that trying all the power recovery procedures.

I would guess that all the useful actions prior to touchdown occurred in about 1 minute.

The success of this crew, reporting the failure, and getting down, and possibly moving the passengers indoors at Wendy's is nothing short of amazing.
 
Just a guess, but with the left curve in the road, I’m wondering if they had trouble negotiating that after touchdown (especially in icy/slushy conditions) and ended up sliding to their right and slapping the prop on the guardrail.
 
Local tv has a phone video from a pax talking to the copilot right after. She said they lost power, started a return to the runway, realized that wouldn’t work and picked the best spot they could. Sounds like good ADM and execution to me.
 
I don’t know how long it takes to attempt restart a PT-6 but I bet it’s a lot more than it takes to descend 800ft at max gross…only one decision and they made the right one.
 
jbarrass said:
Local tv has a phone video from a pax talking to the copilot right after.
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Copilot in a Caravan.?? Do they carry more than 9 passengers on the plane.??

I would think the company probably has it written somewhere to NOT speak to anyone about an accident or incident and to direct questions to the Director of Operations or H/R department.
 
Zeldman said:
Copilot in a Caravan.?? Do they carry more than 9 passengers on the plane.??

I would think the company probably has it written somewhere to NOT speak to anyone about an accident or incident and to direct questions to the Director of Operations or H/R department.
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This operator uses a two person crew. Probably also makes it easier to fly with the autopilot inop.
 
geezer said:
The success of this crew, reporting the failure, and getting down, and possibly moving the passengers indoors at Wendy's is nothing short of amazing.
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So who gets the frosty's first. The captain for saving everyone, or the pax for enduring?
 
GeorgeC said:
I looked at the flightaware track of a subsequent 208 departure from IAD, looked like it was making 700 FPM all the way up to cruise altitude according to ADS-B. There are only a few data points, but the track of the accident flight shows a lower rate of climb.

What are the procedures with the inertial separator? It was snowing, so presumably icing conditions.
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Inertial Separator is to be opened anytime you’re in visual moisture below 40f IIRC.

700fpm does seem very low for a caravan. Could have been they were packing on the ice. The Caravan really doesn’t have any business in ice at all.
 
DavidWhite said:
700fpm does seem very low for a caravan. Could have been they were packing on the ice. The Caravan really doesn’t have any business in ice at all.
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It's also possible the engine began rolling over just after liftoff, reducing the climb rate.
 
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