Someone busted the Obama TFR in L.A. today.

MAKG1 said:
There is something unseemly about criticizing a location just "because."

I haven't lived in California my whole life, but I've been here long enough to know it's as least a dozen distinct regions, each with its own culture, economics, and even language. That's hardly unique; it's true of every large state, including Texas, and most smaller states as well.

Jay, if you choose not to live here, you don't have to. But trying to convert others to your cause is hugely unflattering to you. It is rather obviously based on presuming one region is like another, and one person's situation is lkke another. And as a friendly hint, assuming California is like you see on TV or movies is more than a little like assuming all Texans are oil billionaires who have a motive to shoot JR.

And what in the hell does that have to do with busting a TFR? That can and will happen just about anywhere.
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Your comments would make sense if I didn't have extensive life experience in both states.

But I do. I would not own a small business in CA. I would, and do, in TX. Big difference between the two states.

But what this has to do with busting a TFR? Ya got me. :)
 
Jay Honeck said:
Your comments would make sense if I didn't have extensive life experience in both states.

But I do. I would not own a small business in CA. I would, and do, in TX. Big difference between the two states.

But what this has to do with busting a TFR? Ya got me. :)
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If you think all of California is the same, your experience isn't anywhere near as extensive as you think.
 
MAKG1 said:
If you think all of California is the same, your experience isn't anywhere near as extensive as you think.
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The issue for me at least is not "all of california" or "all of californians" are the same, but the problem is that there are more of "them" than there are of "you", and as a result California runs as "they" see it.

As long as that remains the case, things will never change. Case in point, right now some are "touting" a surplus which hasn't been seen for a long time. Yet very tough new environmental regulations are now taking effect, in January I believe. Some studies show that will eliminate much of the surplus that is projected to exist... It never changes, it just makes a right turn and starts all over again.

It is things like that which ruined it for me. And like Jay, I ran a business there. Never again. I received notes from the Department of Revenue for SIX YEARS after I sold the business and moved out of state. I never paid the state another dime, but spent thousands defending myself against their constant revenue trolling which had no basis whatsoever in fact.
 
nauga said:
Did Jay run a business there?
Jay, where in CA did you live?

Nauga,
who has lived many places and found many good things about each
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Well I thought he had, but maybe not?:dunno: I just went back and reread what he said. Jay, which was it? And where did you live?

I spent 11 years in Ventura, Camarillo, Oxnard, Pismo Beach and Grover Beach. I had 14 retail stores in shopping malls from Santa Maria to Bakersfield which I sold in 1998 to a regional chain store who went bankrupt in 2001 I believe.

I also spent a fair amount of time the first five years commuting from Camarillo to near Long Beach where I worked in an oil refinery.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
Yes, especially since a cessna 150 actually crashed into the White House lawn. Not to mention the " pilot" with a CFI on board who cruised past the White House oblivious a few years back. They react to idiots as does the FAA.
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Yeah, A guy crashed into the White House itself, did a bit of cosmetic damage before it bounced off. The US is full of important, visible, historic landmarks. Does that mean we're going to ground everyone because they might crash into one?

Put another way, the 911 villains hijacked big jets full of fuel. They all could have gone out and rented Cessnas, but they didn't. Not hard to figure out why not. At least not difficult for those with IQs in the triple digits, which obviously doesn't include anyone in the SS.
 
steingar said:
Yeah, A guy crashed into the White House itself, did a bit of cosmetic damage before it bounced off. The US is full of important, visible, historic landmarks. Does that mean we're going to ground everyone because they might crash into one?

Put another way, the 911 villains hijacked big jets full of fuel. They all could have gone out and rented Cessnas, but they didn't. Not hard to figure out why not. At least not difficult for those with IQs in the triple digits, which obviously doesn't include anyone in government.
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Fixed that for you.

I always draw the equivalent of if a semi truck crashed on the highway, should motorcycles be banned from using highways because they will cause the same amount of damage as a semi?
 
MAKG1 said:
If you think all of California is the same, your experience isn't anywhere near as extensive as you think.
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Of course it's not, culturally. California (and Texas) are larger than most countries.

But you cannot escape California's stifling business climate. It is written into law, after all.
 
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Jay Honeck said:
Of course it's not, culturally. California (and Texas) are larger than most countries.

But you cannot escape Calefornia's stifling business climate. It is written into law, after all.
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Tons and tons of businesses in California, large and small. Apparently someone figured it out.
 
steingar said:
Tons and tons of businesses in California, large and small. Apparently someone figured it out.
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Entrepreneurs are a hardy breed. They will ALWAYS find a way around any anti-business laws.

That's why the cash only black markets flourish in places like California.

Point is: We shouldn't have to succeed DESPITE our government.
 
Jay Honeck said:
Entrepreneurs are a hardy breed. They will ALWAYS find a way around any anti-business laws.

That's why the cash only black markets flourish in places like California.

Point is: We shouldn't have to succeed DESPITE our government.
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That is a great point, and more, and more we are having to work harder, and spend more money to circumvent government, or pay fees, taxes, or just not be able to do things because they've been regulated out.

Artificially high energy costs also act like an extra tax on everything due to government's over regulation of fossil fuels.
 
Anthony said:
That is a great point, and more, and more we are having to work harder, and spend more money to circumvent government, or pay fees, taxes, or just not be able to do things because they've been regulated out.

Artificially high energy costs also act like an extra tax on everything due to government's over regulation of fossil fuels.
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Example: I paid my CPA $3000 last year to prepare our Federal tax return for our little 23-room hotel. He produced a 1-inch stack of gibberish, much of it incomprehensible to two college edumacated, semi- intelligent American citizens.

And that's just year-end Federal tax. I do all of our monthly and quarterly taxes.

The highest paid entity in our business, for the 13th straight year, is the government. In fact, they make more than Mary, me, and all of our employees COMBINED.

That, my friends, is NUTS. Anyone who doesn't think our tax system isn't broken doesn't own a business.
 
retailguy said:
I also spent a fair amount of time the first five years commuting from Camarillo to near Long Beach where I worked in an oil refinery.
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Yeah, that sort of drive would sour me to any state -- even if the roads were paved with strippers and cocaine.
 
schmookeeg said:
Yeah, that sort of drive would sour me to any state -- even if the roads were paved with strippers and cocaine.
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The drive I could handle, though I was happy to be transferred to Santa Maria, but the Department of Revenue was unbelievable and the taxes on the strippers and cocaine were never ending.

I am sincere when I tell you that the 51+% of nutballs and the Government drove me out of there. Otherwise I might still be there commuting.
 
retailguy said:
I am sincere when I tell you that the 51+% of nutballs and the Government drove me out of there.
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What drove my family member out of Texas was the percentage of what he referred to as narrow-minded people. (I don't know how he felt about the government there.)
 
There are thriving businesses all over the state, large and small. The population of California continues to increase no matter what. In contrast to that, the cost of living here goes up and up. The state government gets more oppressive and expensive every year.

How can this be??

List of things that Californians know nothing about-

  • Thunder storms
  • Hail
  • Hurricanes
  • Tornadoes
  • Ice storms
  • Snow Storms (Snow is option entertainment here for most)
  • Humidity
  • Bugs
  • Venomous/deadly insects and animals (well very few anyhow)
  • "Bad" times of year
  • Massive flooding
  • Storm surge
  • Weeks above 100 degrees
  • Days below anything
  • Snow tires/chains
  • Screened porches
  • "Closing the Pool"
  • Snow Days
  • Shoveling snow
  • Storm shutters
  • Weeks of power outages
  • Scraping windshields
  • Republican Conventions (Just funnin' :D)
Anyhow, you get the idea. There is a good reason people call this place paradise. My wife and I are looking forward to retirement and would like to leave the state for financial reasons. I personally would also like to leave for political reasons, though not so much my wife. We have traveled nearly all the country and a good bit of the world, but we have really had a hard time coming up with a place that can replace California.

We are both native Californians and have never lived anywhere else, so it would be tough. My latest thought is to live in the Florida Keys somewhere, perhaps Marathon, for greater than 50% of the year in the winter for tax reasons and where we are now for the rest. A bicoastal disorder. I guess some pull it off.:)

Planning and saving... mmmm
 
To answer the question about getting a plane to intercept another in the TFR out her in the Los Angles area, my answer would be yes. I live on the North West area of the ring and can hear a jet about every 10 minuets when it's active. Pretty sure I know who is making the noise.
 
Since this thread is off the deep end anyway, I'll add that I never understand how having the same scene every day is "paradise". I like the beach, I like thunderstorms, I like snow, I like fall weather, etc. California is nice, and obviously has a lot of scenery to offer up and down the west coast, but I don't see it to be any more of a paradise than any other state/locale. Home is where you make it and with few exceptions, the positives of most regions outweigh the infrequent negatives.

As a matter of point, I just sat next to a native Californian on her first flight into Pittsburgh who was simply in awe of the fall foliage she was observing out of the window while on final, having never seen it in person. She said something to the effect of "this is what the poets were inspired by." I also laugh a little bit when I'm in a region (similar to PA) which rarely gets thunderstorms of any major intensity and the locals are talking about "how bad the storm was last night." Being from OK, if you aren't concerned about the windows breaking, it's not a bad thunderstorm!

In summary, there's no point in claiming that Texas, or Cali, or any other place is superior to another. They all have their strong points and weak points.
 
SoonerAviator said:
I never understand how having the same scene every day is "paradise". I like the beach, I like thunderstorms, I like snow, I like fall weather, etc. California is nice, and obviously has a lot of scenery to offer up and down the west coast, but I don't see it to be any more of a paradise than any other state/locale.

In summary, there's no point in claiming that Texas, or Cali, or any other place is superior to another. They all have their strong points and weak points.
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This. I see the same perfectly manicured front lawns of tract houses on the same sunny day all year long. Groundhog day. (Makes for good vfr everyday, but since I don't fly everyday, kind of useless, and boring, and yes I grew up in NY, now live in CA)
 
vfrfellow said:
This. I see the same perfectly manicured front lawns of tract houses on the same sunny day all year long. Groundhog day. (Makes for good vfr everyday, but since I don't fly everyday, kind of useless, and boring, and yes I grew up in NY, now live in CA)
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The South Texas island I live on has 350+ days of good flying weather per year. I always wear the same clothes. Sandals, shorts, cotton shirt, ball cap. I might add a sweatshirt a few days in "winter".

Is it boring? After half a century of living in the most active, violent weather maker on the planet -- a place we saw every type of weather possible -- hell, no!

To be able to fly every day is...amazing...after the ice and convection of the Upper Midwest. And to have NO income tax, and a business friendly(er) environment, too, just frosts the cake.

We like it here...a lot. So do hundreds of thousands of tourists each year, thankfully. :)
 
Palmpilot said:
Agreed. Assassinations are very disruptive to the nation, and when they happen, saying "Oh well, he was only on a fund-raiser," or "Oh well, he was only on vacation" is cold comfort to the voters who have effectively had their votes nullified.



By the way, that does not mean that I think the TFR's are well thought-out.
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We'd get over it. We have before. The voters aren't voting for the person anymore, anyway... They're voting on a pile of lies placed on continuous loop by a Party. Either Party.

Doesn't really matter who's standing up at a podium repeating them.
 
So, do you think it's a coincidence that the more densely populated states tend towards blue and the least populated, red?

If not, then Texans should not be talking up their state and inviting people to "come on down" because you're getting close to the tipping point.
 
denverpilot said:
We'd get over it. We have before. The voters aren't voting for the person anymore, anyway... They're voting on a pile of lies placed on continuous loop by a Party. Either Party.
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There's a significant portion of the electorate who vote based on the individual candidate, not the party, and considering how close the popular vote is in many presidential elections, it's easily enough to change the results.

Doesn't really matter who's standing up at a podium repeating them.
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I don't see any basis for assuming that the assassination attempt on Reagan would have made no difference if it had succeeded, or that JFK would have handled the Vietnam War as badly as LBJ did. Teddy Roosevelt became president as a result of an assassination, and it would be really tough to make a case that his presidency made no difference.

Even if it were true that assassinations made no difference, as a matter of principle, it's wrong to allow the voters to be disenfranchised.

I have serious reservations about the effectiveness and necessity of VIP TFRs as currently configured, but claiming that protecting presidents is unimportant makes no sense to me.
 
Palmpilot said:
There's a significant portion of the electorate who vote based on the individual candidate, not the party, and considering how close the popular vote is in many presidential elections, it's easily enough to change the results.







I don't see any basis for assuming that the assassination attempt on Reagan would have made no difference if it had succeeded, or that JFK would have handled the Vietnam War as badly as LBJ did. Teddy Roosevelt became president as a result of an assassination, and it would be really tough to make a case that his presidency made no difference.



Even if it were true that assassinations made no difference, as a matter of principle, it's wrong to allow the voters to be disenfranchised.



I have serious reservations about the effectiveness and necessity of VIP TFRs as currently configured, but claiming that protecting presidents is unimportant makes no sense to me.
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Meh. Professional liars are easily replaceable. Not nearly enough recall votes happening yet. Nor jury nullification.

Sure kill one, the world takes a different path. Whoop dee doo. Neither major political Party leads to a better path for the average American anything other than short-term.

Only forcing spending to match income would do that.

The President we have right now says he hears about everything after the event on TV "like everybody else" and spends far more time on the fund raising trail than working.

If people actually get emotionally attached to them, that's a personal problem they should think harder about. Celebrity worship.
 
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