Someone busted the Obama TFR in L.A. today.

Someone always busts those, this guy just got extra attention.
 
Same old story. I turned off my XM WX for a while, got a flight later today. I made sure to check the TFR map. The TFR presentations on XM are helpful to have.
 
Easy solution,don't provide a TFR if,the man is out fundraising. Don't think the F15s need the practice.
 
Same old story. I turned off my XM WX for a while, got a flight later today. I made sure to check the TFR map. The TFR presentations on XM are helpful to have.

It's always important to check.

I virtually always supplement it with a quick call to FSS right before takeoff, even for local flights.

1) In case I missed something, and,

2) In case something has changed since I last checked - either a TFR or some sort of national emergency.

Takes only a minute or two and makes me feel a lot better to know they have me on record as having checked.
 
Easy solution,don't provide a TFR if,the man is out fundraising. Don't think the F15s need the practice.

Secret Service protection goes with the President, whomever that might be and regardless of what s/he is doing, and the SS dictates the TFRs.

Bob Gardner
 
The TFR's are obscene, nearly all of the airspace above LA proper and half the freaking county. Fills the damn screen on Garmin Pilot. Glad he doesn't come down here.

'Gimp
 
Secret Service protection goes with the President, whomever that might be and regardless of what s/he is doing, and the SS dictates the TFRs.

Bob Gardner

Between screwing hookers and letting people run straight into the Whitehouse......:mad2::mad2:.......:(
 
Secret Service protection goes with the President, whomever that might be and regardless of what s/he is doing, and the SS dictates the TFRs.

Bob Gardner


I really don't think that changes the point...
 
SS can't keep loonies out of the White House and lets the POTUS get into the elevator with a guy carrying a sidearm. But heaven forbid a puddle jumper should get within 30 nautical of him. Whatever.
 
That whole scramble the jets thing is such a load of bull crap. Everyone involved can tell that Mr. Happless is just plodding along on his magenta line and no threat to anyone. Simply follow him to where he lands and bust him on the ground. No need for a big fancy show at tax payer expense to make lame news headlines.

I know the SS orders it, but don't they answer to the CIC? It's abuse of military assets. The real threats to the president are on the ground, why aren't they rolling out the tanks and armored vehicles? We need to start being more frugal as a country. I hate the fact that we are borrowing money to put on lame jet shows for the press. What other head of state has jets flying top cover where ever they go?
 
know the SS orders it, but don't they answer to the CIC? It's abuse of military assets.

I laughed out loud when I read this. Does anyone believe that our current CIC cares one hoot about abusing military assets? :lol:

"Meanwhile, in Liberia..."
 
I really don't think that changes the point...
It seems the point was: protect him when he's doing his job, ignore him during the in-between moments. If that's the point, it's pretty indefensible.

It's not relevant what anyone thinks of the person doing the job (or how that person does the job) - that only becomes relevant at the polls. Once that person is POTUS, the job is to protect the person until such a time that s/he is no longer POTUS. Agree or disagree that it should be like this, this is how it is.
 
It seems the point was: protect him when he's doing his job, ignore him during the in-between moments. If that's the point, it's pretty indefensible.

It's not relevant what anyone thinks of the person doing the job (or how that person does the job) - that only becomes relevant at the polls. Once that person is POTUS, the job is to protect the person until such a time that s/he is no longer POTUS. Agree or disagree that it should be like this, this is how it is.

Agreed. Assassinations are very disruptive to the nation, and when they happen, saying "Oh well, he was only on a fund-raiser," or "Oh well, he was only on vacation" is cold comfort to the voters who have effectively had their votes nullified.

By the way, that does not mean that I think the TFR's are well thought-out.
 
VPOTUS brought his junior-sized TFR to Portland this week to shake down the locals for a senatorial candidate. The two pols thought it would be a neat photo-op to go off-script and visit a trendy ice cream parlor in a Bohemian section of northeast Portland. Hilarity ensued:

TriMet: Secret Service miscommunication, dallying caused nightmarish MAX meltdown during VP Joe Biden's Portland visit

Excerpt:
While Joe Biden tackled a double scoop at Northeast Portland's Salt & Straw on Wednesday afternoon, the region's MAX system was melting down faster than the vice president's ice cream.

Earlier in the day, with Biden's planned visit to Portland for a political rally and fundraiser hours away, TriMet warned that train commuters would likely experience some delays into the evening commute. But no one at the agency anticipated the colossal mess that would ensue, with the complete system clogging up and the waits at crowded stations from Gresham to Hillsboro extending past 8 p.m.
 
It seems the point was: protect him when he's doing his job, ignore him during the in-between moments. If that's the point, it's pretty indefensible.

It's not relevant what anyone thinks of the person doing the job (or how that person does the job) - that only becomes relevant at the polls. Once that person is POTUS, the job is to protect the person until such a time that s/he is no longer POTUS. Agree or disagree that it should be like this, this is how it is.


Quite honestly, I think we do many things in this country that are not necessary. You may disagree with me, and that's fine, but this is one of them. It doesn't matter which side you're on republican/democrat, I don't care.

A 10 mile TFR that follows this man wherever he goes is STUPID and solves nothing. Overprotection is overprotection, it "looks good" and accomplishes little.

My point was, it doesn't matter who is responsible for it, whether we need it or not is the point. I'm not sure we need it regardless of whether he's fundraising or working.

If someone truly wanted to "take him out" with a plane, a fighter couldn't get there fast enough to stop it. If some idiot tries to take him out with a 172, they deserve to get caught.

This is all about making people "feel safe". It does very little to make anyone, including the President, actually be safe.
 
Quite honestly, I think we do many things in this country that are not necessary. You may disagree with me, and that's fine, but this is one of them. It doesn't matter which side you're on republican/democrat, I don't care.

A 10 mile TFR that follows this man wherever he goes is STUPID and solves nothing. Overprotection is overprotection, it "looks good" and accomplishes little.

My point was, it doesn't matter who is responsible for it, whether we need it or not is the point. I'm not sure we need it regardless of whether he's fundraising or working.

If someone truly wanted to "take him out" with a plane, a fighter couldn't get there fast enough to stop it. If some idiot tries to take him out with a 172, they deserve to get caught.

This is all about making people "feel safe". It does very little to make anyone, including the President, actually be safe.
I agree with what you've said here. My point was simply that if we're going to have this imaginary bubble surrounding the POTUS, it should be full time, not dependent on if POTUS is actually doing something useful (a topic which could open up an entirely new can of worms:rofl:).
 
...If some idiot tries to take him out with a 172...

I'm not defending the system or inferring that it is likely to occur but I'm pretty sure the TFR models are based on the possible threat of a small yield nuclear device that would be minimally effective at ground level but a mile high in a 172 would be exponentially more devastating. I'm not saying a 10 or 20 mile TFR is a solid defense but if you have any other ideas other than doing nothing I'm sure the SS would love to hear them :dunno:
 
That whole scramble the jets thing is such a load of bull crap. Everyone involved can tell that Mr. Happless is just plodding along on his magenta line and no threat to anyone. Simply follow him to where he lands and bust him on the ground. No need for a big fancy show at tax payer expense to make lame news headlines.

I know the SS orders it, but don't they answer to the CIC? It's abuse of military assets. The real threats to the president are on the ground, why aren't they rolling out the tanks and armored vehicles? We need to start being more frugal as a country. I hate the fact that we are borrowing money to put on lame jet shows for the press. What other head of state has jets flying top cover where ever they go?

You think the one jet is expensive.....you should see all the stuff that came into LAX over the weekend in preparation. More aircraft than most countries have in their entire air force.

The F15 "show" was right over my head yesterday....... cool to watch.
Heard a sonic boom over head this morning around 6am also, wondering if someone else slipped up.:dunno:
 
I just know that someone intent on doing harm to POTUS would pay attention to the TFR. :goofy:
 
I was sort of surprised it was a Cessna 340. I expect the little guys to not pay much attention to TFRs on a $100 hamburger run, but a 340 is a chunk of hardware to fly that way with.
 
Used to be a one mile radius wherever the pres went before 9/11. Then they started to get serious.

I've never busted a TFR, but I've had the AMOC call me (I'm the "airport manager") to trace someone who departed our field and flew into the rescheduled at the last minute DNCC TFR.
 
I'm not defending the system or inferring that it is likely to occur but I'm pretty sure the TFR models are based on the possible threat of a small yield nuclear device that would be minimally effective at ground level but a mile high in a 172 would be exponentially more devastating. I'm not saying a 10 or 20 mile TFR is a solid defense but if you have any other ideas other than doing nothing I'm sure the SS would love to hear them :dunno:

The fallacy of that justification is that they are not imposing comparably sized exclusion zones for cars and trucks, which could carry a larger payload and attract less attention.
 
Used to be a one mile radius wherever the pres went before 9/11. Then they started to get serious.
POTUS TFR, 1969-style. This was for Nixon's Western White House. When he was there, P-25 went up to 4,000 MSL. The R-areas were for MCB Camp Pendleton, and were already there.

P-25.jpg


One time when Nixon was there, I flew VFR down V23 at 5,500', legally not talking to anybody. This was of course before transponders and Mode C. As I passed over P-25, I saw a Huey helicopter about a mile to my right come up level with me, evidently checking that I was high enough, then he peeled off and went home.

Ronald Reagan's 660-acre ranch near Santa Barbara was right under some busy airways. In fact, the Gaviota (GVO) VORTAC was (and is) on the ranch property. As I recall the top of the P-area was low enough that those airways were still reasonably usable, even when he was there.

In the photo below are President Clinton and party inspecting a section of collapsed freeway a few days after the Northridge Earthquake in 1994. That was on a normal VFR departure from Van Nuys, no special restrictions.

Earthquake-940117-01020.jpg
 
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The fallacy of that justification is that they are not imposing comparably sized exclusion zones for cars and trucks, which could carry a larger payload and attract less attention.

Yes...yes they do. My firm works in political event logistics among other things. Everything from POTUS to national candidates to local candidates. All of the "buffer" zones are to minimize the impact from an attack from an estimated distance from an estimated threat.

That means when he is on a stage, there is a certian amount of feet that the public is kept from him (unless pre screened through DOJ...yes all of those people permitted within that buffer zone are name checked with SS#'s). When he is arriving, unscreened vehicles are kept a certain distance from the drop point minimizing a car or truck explosion (have personalty sealed off a two city block perimeter) and the TFR is designed to keep the a renegade pilot with a grudge from making an impact that could affect his security.

And ALL of those distances have increased significantly post 9/11.

Even the media is not allowed to report on the motorcade route if they know it... and that has multiple contingency plans.

You can be sure if the outter ring of the TFR is penetrated, the command team on the ground is alerted. If they penetrate the inner ring before getting intercepted, you can bet the extraction team (yes, there is such a thing) is sent into action and the principal is removed.

Every possible scenario has multiple layers of protection layers be it people, vehicles or aircraft...and yeah, it is a pain in the arse...for everyone.

My favorite was during a not very high dollar fundraiser with W I was chatting with a tech from the phone company wiring the the heck outta the building and he says to me "this is stupid, they are gonna make less at this "fundraiser" then they are paying our company alone to do all this work.

"Yup" I said. "It is more about marketing and media attention than money sometimes."

Yes these appearances "cost" a lot of money, but my counter argument is that they pump a LOT of money back into the local economy from contract services provided, hotels, overtime of LEO's, transportation services, ect.
 
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Local law enforcement will determine whether any criminal action will be taken.
I am aware that a violation could bring up criminal charges but I wonder if anybody has actually been charged in criminal court for violating an innocent TFR.
 
Yes...yes they do. My firm works in political event logistics among other things. Everything from POTUS to national candidates to local candidates. All of the "buffer" zones are to minimize the impact from an attack from an estimated distance from an estimated threat.

That means when he is on a stage, there is a certian amount of feet that the public is kept from him (unless pre screened through DOJ...yes all of those people permitted within that buffer zone are name checked with SS#'s). When he is arriving, unscreened vehicles are kept a certain distance from the drop point minimizing a car or truck explosion (have personalty sealed off a two city block perimeter) and the TFR is designed to keep the a renegade pilot with a grudge from making an impact that could affect his security.

And ALL of those distances have increased significantly post 9/11.

Even the media is not allowed to report on the motorcade route if they know it... and that has multiple contingency plans.

You can be sure if the outter ring of the TFR is penetrated, the command team on the ground is alerted. If they penetrate the inner ring before getting intercepted, you can bet the extraction team (yes, there is such a thing) is sent into action and the principal is removed.

Every possible scenario has multiple layers of protection layers be it people, vehicles or aircraft...and yeah, it is a pain in the arse...for everyone.

My favorite was during a not very high dollar fundraiser with W I was chatting with a tech from the phone company wiring the the heck outta the building and he says to me "this is stupid, they are gonna make less at this "fundraiser" then they are paying our company alone to do all this work.

"Yup" I said. "It is more about marketing and media attention than money sometimes."

Yes these appearances "cost" a lot of money, but my counter argument is that they pump a LOT of money back into the local economy from contract services provided, hotels, overtime of LEO's, transportation services, ect.

Hold on - Are you saying they keep cars and trucks far enough from the President, in an urban area, to protect against a NUCLEAR device? Sorry, I'm skeptical.

Or did you overlook the fact that that was what he was talking about?
 
Hold on - Are you saying they keep cars and trucks far enough from the President, in an urban area, to protect against a NUCLEAR device? Sorry, I'm skeptical.

Or did you overlook the fact that that was what he was talking about?

No, I am saying that all of the layers of security are based on a multi layer concept against a probable and likely threat.

In a nuclear scenario, that layer would start with the intelligence community well before execution as that is actually pretty hard to pull off as a "lone wolf" scenario undetected. Has yet to be done...ever.

A dude a with a grudge and a plane full of C4 is a much more realistic threat.
 
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No, I am saying that all of the layers of security are based on a multi layer concept against a probable and likely threat.

In a nuclear scenario, that layer would start with the intelligence community we before execution as that is actually pretty hard to pull off as a "lone wolf" scenario undetected. Has yet to be done...ever.

A dude a with a grudge and a plane of C4 is a much more realistic threat.

So, are you saying that the nuclear device in C-172 scenario has nothing to do with the size of TFRs?
 
So, are you saying that the nuclear device in C-172 scenario has nothing to do with the size of TFRs?

Not nuclear specific, no. I do believe that it is taken into account however.

For example, the distance that public is kept back is designed to minimize damage from say a small explosive device someone has on their person and makes their way up to the front of a crowd. If someone has a full body suit laced with some serious punch they could do some damage but there would have been at least 4 levels of physical security, some unperceived that had been breached to get to that point, let alone intelligence so that scenario is less likely.

IFR flights can blaze right through the outter ring...nothing to stop the attack from being on an IFR flight plan, as well as a VFR plane on a flight plan. It is more about reaction time from a possible threat becoming an actual threat.
 
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Yes...yes they do. My firm works in political event logistics among other things. Everything from POTUS to national candidates to local candidates. All of the "buffer" zones are to minimize the impact from an attack from an estimated distance from an estimated threat.

That means when he is on a stage, there is a certian amount of feet that the public is kept from him (unless pre screened through DOJ...yes all of those people permitted within that buffer zone are name checked with SS#'s). When he is arriving, unscreened vehicles are kept a certain distance from the drop point minimizing a car or truck explosion (have personalty sealed off a two city block perimeter) and the TFR is designed to keep the a renegade pilot with a grudge from making an impact that could affect his security.

And ALL of those distances have increased significantly post 9/11.

Even the media is not allowed to report on the motorcade route if they know it... and that has multiple contingency plans.

You can be sure if the outter ring of the TFR is penetrated, the command team on the ground is alerted. If they penetrate the inner ring before getting intercepted, you can bet the extraction team (yes, there is such a thing) is sent into action and the principal is removed.

Every possible scenario has multiple layers of protection layers be it people, vehicles or aircraft...and yeah, it is a pain in the arse...for everyone.

My favorite was during a not very high dollar fundraiser with W I was chatting with a tech from the phone company wiring the the heck outta the building and he says to me "this is stupid, they are gonna make less at this "fundraiser" then they are paying our company alone to do all this work.

"Yup" I said. "It is more about marketing and media attention than money sometimes."

Yes these appearances "cost" a lot of money, but my counter argument is that they pump a LOT of money back into the local economy from contract services provided, hotels, overtime of LEO's, transportation services, ect.

Yep. We'll do anything and spend anything to keep Biden from being president! Probably money well spent!:rofl:
 
I'm not saying a 10 or 20 mile TFR is a solid defense but if you have any other ideas other than doing nothing I'm sure the SS would love to hear them :dunno:

Yeah, right. That's a good one.:lol:

I'd have better luck persuading you to switch political sides.
 
Yep. We'll do anything and spend anything to keep Biden from being president! Probably money well spent!:rofl:

Gawd ain't that the truth!

...not to hijack the thread (ok, bad use of term in this thread), but see you live in Diso. I lived there for 3 years and man do I miss it! Keep the other toy at Orwood Resort. There apparently used to be a grass strip right behind the boat lockers at Orwood many moons ago and wish it was still maintained. Would make the commute up much easier!
 
I was flying in the TFR area today doing touch and goes. Out of CCB. I made damn sure I was on the ground before 12 noon when the TFR took effect.

I wonder who violated the TFR?

Pres. Obama was not only here doing fundraising, he was also designating a huge part of the mountains above Los Angeles as a new national Monument. This is a very good thing.

Those mountains are being trashed and need protection desperately.
 
Not sure if posted but I read he was on flight following or an ifr plan and lost comms (terrain?) or wrong frequency or something. They notified him when he contacted tower to land. Not factual and sadly I didn't save the source.
 
:rofl: :rofl:

Wait...that was a joke, right? :dunno:

If he's like the neighbors I used to have, no, it was not a joke. So happy to be gone. Great place to live in your 20's. And that's about the nicest thing I can say about it...:yes:

I do miss Big Bear though, a little bit.:yesnod:
 
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