Someone busted the Obama TFR in L.A. today.

[NoHeat]

Easy solution,don't provide a TFR if,the man is out fundraising. Don't think the F15s need the practice.

When he was shot, John F. Kennedy was in Dallas for political reasons.

His death shook the nation.

He wasn't popular with every voter by any means, but like him or not, he was the POTUS and the country depended on him. I don't think anybody would argue that it was a good thing that he was inadequately protected, or that the reason for his trip justified a poor level of protection. Same thing with any other president.

 

[Dav8or]

Gawd ain't that the truth!

...not to hijack the thread (ok, bad use of term in this thread), but see you live in Diso. I lived there for 3 years and man do I miss it! Keep the other toy at Orwood Resort. There apparently used to be a grass strip right behind the boat lockers at Orwood many moons ago and wish it was still maintained. Would make the commute up much easier!

Well... there is a private airport only 3 miles away from Orwood Resort that you could easily ride a folding bike to. It's called Funny Farm (4CA2) and has a 1800 x 20 asphalt runway. You could call them up and maybe they'd love to have you. I have never landed there, or know them, but lots of people in the area are good friends with those guys over there.

The Delta calls...

 

[MarkZ]

I just know that someone intent on doing harm to POTUS would pay attention to the TFR.

This. For those wondering why a TFR is so big, it's for this reason. The distance the TFR makers and military probably decided they require to identify, intercept, and if necessary engage an intruder.

 

[Dr. O]

The VIP TFR's are out of control.
Expressing our opinion here will not change them.
The change only can come by GA putting money where mouth is and suing the Government.
I don't understand. We can raise millions for some dimwit who becomes a celebrity by hiking into North Korea, or Iran, or such, but we will not spend a cent to protect our liberties.
I have a hundred dollar bill for the group that begins a credible campaign to file suit.

 

[EppyGA]

This. For those wondering why a TFR is so big, it's for this reason. The distance the TFR makers and military probably decided they require to identify, intercept, and if necessary engage an intruder.

Possibly. From the time a 172 hits the outer ring to being at the center would be approx 7.5 minutes. We're saying we can scramble and intercept and shoot down in 7.5 minutes?

 

[Jay Honeck]

If he's like the neighbors I used to have, no, it was not a joke. So happy to be gone. Great place to live in your 20's. And that's about the nicest thing I can say about it...

I do miss Big Bear though, a little bit.

At one point, nearly my entire family lived in CA. Now, none of us do.

The perfect example of what happens to a place when you call it "paradise".

 

[Jay Honeck]

When he was shot, John F. Kennedy was in Dallas for political reasons.

His death shook the nation.

He wasn't popular with every voter by any means, but like him or not, he was the POTUS and the country depended on him. I don't think anybody would argue that it was a good thing that he was inadequately protected, or that the reason for his trip justified a poor level of protection. Same thing with any other president.

If our politicians are so valuable, and so vulnerable, they should teleconference. This is 2014, not 1963.

 

[MarkZ]

Possibly. From the time a 172 hits the outer ring to being at the center would be approx 7.5 minutes. We're saying we can scramble and intercept and shoot down in 7.5 minutes?

Probably not, if we had to scramble.

 

[ja_user]

This. For those wondering why a TFR is so big, it's for this reason. The distance the TFR makers and military probably decided they require to identify, intercept, and if necessary engage an intruder.

You are applying logic to this mess.

 

[Pilawt]

At one point, nearly my entire family lived in CA. Now, none of us do.

The perfect example of what happens to a place when you call it "paradise".

+1.

I'm a third-generation Southern Californian, never crossed a state line until I was 14. My wife and both our kids were born there, and all of both of our families were there through 1990. By 1995 it was "Check please, we're done!" and we bugged out. A month ago the last of the in-laws left California.

 

[Silvaire]

...There apparently used to be a grass strip right behind the boat lockers at Orwood many moons ago and wish it was still maintained...

It's still there but it's private, the guy owns a 185. Keeps it in the barn.

 

[Jimmy cooper]

Yep. We'll do anything and spend anything to keep Biden from being president! Probably money well spent!

Just think you could have gotten Beverly hillbilly Palin as Vice President. She could have had the drunken brawl on the White House lawn!

 

[wanttaja]

Possibly. From the time a 172 hits the outer ring to being at the center would be approx 7.5 minutes. We're saying we can scramble and intercept and shoot down in 7.5 minutes?

<Elbow in Ribs> Shhhh! Of COURSE they can! Otherwise, they'd need to make the TFR wider, right?

Ron Wanttaja

 

[bobmrg]

I really don't think that changes the point...

The point is that the word Obama does not belong in the title of the thread. It is a presidential TFR, not an Obama TFR.

Bob Gardner

 

[Jimmy cooper]

SS can't keep loonies out of the White House and lets the POTUS get into the elevator with a guy carrying a sidearm. But heaven forbid a puddle jumper should get within 30 nautical of him. Whatever.

Yes, especially since a cessna 150 actually crashed into the White House lawn. Not to mention the " pilot" with a CFI on board who cruised past the White House oblivious a few years back. They react to idiots as does the FAA.

 

[kkoran]

The VIP TFR's are out of control.
Expressing our opinion here will not change them.
The change only can come by GA putting money where mouth is and suing the Government.
I don't understand. We can raise millions for some dimwit who becomes a celebrity by hiking into North Korea, or Iran, or such, but we will not spend a cent to protect our liberties.
I have a hundred dollar bill for the group that begins a credible campaign to file suit.

What would you base the lawsuit on?

 

[Shepherd]

I can tell you, with a high degree of confidence, that there isn't a single fighter on active duty that can launch in less than 14 minutes. And that is if the pilot is sitting in the cockpit when the launch command comes.
VIP TFRs are a total waste of time and money.

 

[Lindberg]

Pres. Obama was not only here doing fundraising, he was also designating a huge part of the mountains above Los Angeles as a new national Monument. This is a very good thing.

Those mountains are being trashed and need protection desperately.

Obama was in CA for fundraising. The mountains were an entirely transparent excuse to have you and me pay for the trip. They have pens in White House. :wink2:

 

[EppyGA]

Obama was in CA for fundraising. The mountains were an entirely transparent excuse to have you and me pay for the trip. They have pens in White House. :wink2:

 

[EppyGA]

I can tell you, with a high degree of confidence, that there isn't a single fighter on active duty that can launch in less than 14 minutes. And that is if the pilot is sitting in the cockpit when the launch command comes.
VIP TFRs are a total waste of time and money.

Strictly security theater.

 

[Lindberg]

Possibly. From the time a 172 hits the outer ring to being at the center would be approx 7.5 minutes. We're saying we can scramble and intercept and shoot down in 7.5 minutes?

Without obvious and indisputable evidence of hostile intent, nobody's going to get shot down for violating a TFR. And probably not even with such evidence. But 7.5 minutes is more than enough time for the USSS to get Obama off the X if they're worried enough about any given incursion.

 

[DavidWhite]

How much time would it take a mig 15 to cover the distance of the TFR? They can be had for not much more than a 172, and with a load of jet fuel, can do a lot more damage.

 

[retailguy]

The point is that the word Obama does not belong in the title of the thread. It is a presidential TFR, not an Obama TFR.

Bob Gardner

Bob, I know you're trying really, really hard to make this political but it's not. Pick a republican, I wouldn't support the TFR's either. They are silly and do very little to protect anyone.

Any of us with half a brain could figure out how to penetrate a TFR and be damn close to the building in question before they could evacuate ANY president (named Obama, or NOT named Obama). Unless he really is a Kenyan marathon runner... (That was a JOKE Bob, not a political rant...)

 

[retailguy]

How much time would it take a mig 15 to cover the distance of the TFR? They can be had for not much more than a 172, and with a load of jet fuel, can do a lot more damage.

The secret service has calculated that 10 miles is enough time to get warning and get the President to safety. If you're in that mig, you better have someone on the ground to tell you where they are going. You can't do it by yourself.

 

[Palmpilot]

At one point, nearly my entire family lived in CA. Now, none of us do.

The perfect example of what happens to a place when you call it "paradise".

One of my family members tried living in Texas and hated it. He couldn't wait to move back to California.

 

[Palmpilot]

I can tell you, with a high degree of confidence, that there isn't a single fighter on active duty that can launch in less than 14 minutes. And that is if the pilot is sitting in the cockpit when the launch command comes.

There have been interceptions when people bust the TFRs, which implies that there must be a plane or planes already airborne when the President is out and about.

VIP TFRs are a total waste of time and money.

Probably true.

 

[Palmpilot]

Obama was in CA for fundraising. The mountains were an entirely transparent excuse to have you and me pay for the trip. They have pens in White House. :wink2:

Would you favor a Constitutional amendment restricting the purposes for which presidents can travel?

 

[retailguy]

One of my family members tried living in Texas and hated it. He couldn't wait to move back to California.

Texas isn't for everyone, but neither is California. If you want to debate the merits of either feel free to PM me. I can tell you I am much, much happier in Texas than I was in California, but I didn't know that would be the case until I left California (and there were a few stops in between that I also liked better)...

 

[bobmrg]

Bob, I know you're trying really, really hard to make this political but it's not. Pick a republican, I wouldn't support the TFR's either. They are silly and do very little to protect anyone.

Any of us with half a brain could figure out how to penetrate a TFR and be damn close to the building in question before they could evacuate ANY president (named Obama, or NOT named Obama). Unless he really is a Kenyan marathon runner... (That was a JOKE Bob, not a political rant...)

I'm trying to make it apolitical. Doesn't make any difference from which party the president comes, s/he gets a TFR anyway, like it or not.

I, too, think that TFR's are expensive theater and wouldn't shed a tear if they went away tomorrow....and took the TSA with them.

Bob

 

[Dav8or]

Would you favor a Constitutional amendment restricting the purposes for which presidents can travel?

I would. Folks in congress too. The reasoning being-

1. They were hired to do a job. In Washington DC.
2. When they travel, it is VERY expensive and we foot the tab.
3. It's called public service, so they should serve the public instead of themselves.

 

[Palmpilot]

Texas isn't for everyone, but neither is California. If you want to debate the merits of either feel free to PM me. I can tell you I am much, much happier in Texas than I was in California, but I didn't know that would be the case until I left California (and there were a few stops in between that I also liked better)...

I'm not interested in debating the merits of various states, and even if I were, I wouldn't do it by PM. I just wanted to make the point that bad-mouthing where other forum members live can go both ways.

 

[Lindberg]

Would you favor a Constitutional amendment restricting the purposes for which presidents can travel?

There's no reason why it would require a constitutional amendment.

 

[Palmpilot]

There's no reason why it would require a constitutional amendment.

What provision of the Constitution as it exists today would allow either Congress or the courts to do it?

 

[retailguy]

I'm not interested in debating the merits of various states, and even if I were, I wouldn't do it by PM. I just wanted to make the point that bad-mouthing where other forum members live can go both ways.

feel free to bash Texas anytime you want. I won't take offense. Californians have earned it IMHO....

 

[Palmpilot]

feel free to bash Texas anytime you want. I won't take offense. Californians have earned it IMHO....

So have Texans, according to what I've heard.

 

[Jay Honeck]

So have Texans, according to what I've heard.

Trust me, there are HUGE parts of Texas that no amount of money could make me live in or near. Probably more so than California.

That said, the island I live on isn't one of them. And the best part of living here is that the State isn't dead set against small business owners like me.

It's really nice to live in a state that values what I've built. It almost offsets our federal government's never-ending slapdown. Almost.

 

[Palmpilot]

Trust me, there are HUGE parts of Texas that no amount of money could make me live in or near. Probably more so than California.

That said, the island I live on isn't one of them. And the best part of living here is that the State isn't dead set against small business owners like me.

It's really nice to live in a state that values what I've built. It almost offsets our federal government's never-ending slapdown. Almost.

Good point. Neither state is homogeneous.

 

[retailguy]

So have Texans, according to what I've heard.

Well there you have it. Guess you told me, huh?

 

[Palmpilot]

Well there you have it. Guess you told me, huh?

There are times when I am able to resist trying to give as good as I get. This wasn't one of them.

 

[MAKG1]

There is something unseemly about criticizing a location just "because."

I haven't lived in California my whole life, but I've been here long enough to know it's as least a dozen distinct regions, each with its own culture, economics, and even language. That's hardly unique; it's true of every large state, including Texas, and most smaller states as well.

Jay, if you choose not to live here, you don't have to. But trying to convert others to your cause is hugely unflattering to you. It is rather obviously based on presuming one region is like another, and one person's situation is lkke another. And as a friendly hint, assuming California is like you see on TV or movies is more than a little like assuming all Texans are oil billionaires who have a motive to shoot JR.

And what in the hell does that have to do with busting a TFR? That can and will happen just about anywhere.