Solo own a 182 vs. 1/4 Partnership in a Cirrus?

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by SoCal 182 Driver, Jul 17, 2021.

  1. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2007
    Messages:
    10,801
    Location:
    Maryland
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Check_my_Six
    BEFFC6EB-4EBB-440F-A969-2041607A6005.jpeg F48BC0AD-797E-4EF8-BD9F-7AE67ED4A6D4.jpeg You do know a six means lots of other thingys….than a Cherokee Six? Lol :D Btw…here’s my new six.
     
  2. Ed Haywood

    Ed Haywood Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2020
    Messages:
    512
    Location:
    Tampa FL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Big Ed
    Overnight trips at least monthly. Next week going on a 9 day trip to Oshkosh and Colorado.
     
  3. Jumpmaster

    Jumpmaster Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2014
    Messages:
    552
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    AbnJag
    You get banged for a buck? Wow - you are thrifty.
     
  4. EdFred

    EdFred Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2005
    Messages:
    27,020
    Location:
    Michigan
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ed Frederick
    11 (maybe 10, I'd have to check) of my last 15 weekends I've been gone with the plane. Only 3 of them were planned more than 2 weeks in advance. 2 of them were decided the week of. Some the day of.
     
  5. Eldorado

    Eldorado Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2020
    Messages:
    133
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Bill
    Just having my plane fueled, ready to fly at a moment notice, brings me a sense of freedom, even if I haven’t flown in a month. If I rented or was in a partnership, I would probably put a pencil to every flight, seeing if it was worth the cost. Being a sole owner, I know the plane needs to be flown weekly, so I keep up my proficiency, figuring I’m saving money by flying versus letting it sit. When I start flying less than 125 hours a year, time to sell the plane.
     
  6. Captain Sweet T

    Captain Sweet T Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2021
    Messages:
    40
    Location:
    NorCal
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Captain Sweet T
    I don't see scheduling in a partnership typically being the problem. But for me, when someone tears the seat or spills coffee on the floor, those kinds of things bug me. I take care of my "things" better than most people and it drives me crazy to when people don't respect what I have worked for. Even though it's more affordable, the partnership way is not for me.
     
    a572mike and Salty like this.
  7. eman1200

    eman1200 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2013
    Messages:
    13,808
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    eman1200
    and I give back change too!
     
  8. TCABM

    TCABM Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2013
    Messages:
    1,889
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    3G
    Six-ish months into a partnership and I’d agree with that. Inevitably someone doesn’t top off after a flight, doesn’t leave it they way they found it, the databases aren’t updated on-time, etc.

    This partnership meets my needs for now but I foresee growing out of it sooner rather than later. I may consider another, but it would have to be the right group.
     
  9. luvflyin

    luvflyin Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    May 8, 2015
    Messages:
    10,437
    Location:
    Vancouver, WA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Luvflyin
    I did it often. Wake up, look out the window and say I wanna go fly today. Sometimes I’d say to my wife “ya wanna fly somewhere for lunch.” Sometimes I just felt like flying and would go bouncing around at a few airports. Find one with a good crosswind and do that just for fun. If it was gooey out, go shoot some Approaches just for fun. When I was renter sometimes that would work, but not often. There was a time it would but a handful of years ago it became just about impossible. All the places that rented had got very busy with students. Had to schedule ahead of time. Then something else would come up we’d rather do that day. I like the freedom to be impulsive.
     
  10. Omalley1537

    Omalley1537 Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2015
    Messages:
    1,076
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Sean
    Assuming I could comfortably afford sole ownership, the only two reasons I’d switch to a partnership would be either (a) I wasn’t flying enough to justify sole ownership and could better utilize those funds for another purpose, or (b) going to a partnership would allow me to fly something more capable and/or suitable for my intended mission that I couldn’t afford alone and my current AC wasn’t capable of or ideal for.

    I suppose another prong of (a) could be that I was flying seldom enough that I was worried about MX due to infrequent use.
     
  11. Arob16

    Arob16 Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2015
    Messages:
    141
    Location:
    Fort Worth TX
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Arob16
    I’ve been in both a large “club” partnership (5-6 members) and a small one (2 of us). It’s pretty much a linear relationship between cost vs aircraft availability. The large partnerships you just have to get some rules regarding scheduling etc. It’s great to have more people to split the costs, but I’m honestly willing to pay more for more availability and less people to deal with.
     
  12. David Megginson

    David Megginson Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2018
    Messages:
    1,636
    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Canuck
    Financially, it would have made sense for me to join a partnership 19 years ago instead of buying my Piper PA-28-161. Emotionally, sharing the plane with a partner now would feel like renting out a room in my house.

    It might have been easier if I'd been in partnerships from the start, but as I mentioned earlier, it's also about personalities — I like people in moderation, but being somewhere like Airventure with hundreds of thousands of other people would be my idea of a nightmare I can't wake up from. If you're the kind of person who gets fired up by being around lots of other people instead of reverting to survival mode, then probably the social aspect of a partnership would work for you.
     
  13. Crashnburn

    Crashnburn Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2018
    Messages:
    1,061
    Location:
    Sunnyvale CA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Crashnburn
    IOW, partnerships would work for Oscar, but not Felix (The Odd Couple)
     
    David Megginson likes this.
  14. AlphaMike

    AlphaMike Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2019
    Messages:
    364
    Location:
    Michigan
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    AlphaMike
    Partnership is definitely not for me. I never know when I’m gunna get a break in my schedule so it’s awesome to have that flexibility! I also really like knowing exactly how the plane has been treated and flown! When I was renting I would look to see who had flown the plane since I had last. I did a lot of 30 - 45 min preflight inspections depending on who’s name was on the logs. Several times I found stuff that kept me from flying. After renting trainers for a few years, It’s totally worth it to me to stay a single owner!
     
    Checkout_my_Six likes this.
  15. focal_plane

    focal_plane Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2012
    Messages:
    163
    Location:
    AZ
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    focal_plane
    Tim, does that mean the total fixed annual costs for your plane is a multiple of 12k, ie 24k, 36k, 48k based on number of partners? I do have a partner I suppose, my wife. Total fixed cost around 5.5k/yr, Piper Archer. You all could have something significantly higher on the food chain.
     
  16. David Megginson

    David Megginson Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2018
    Messages:
    1,636
    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Canuck
    The partnership would work for Oscar, but I'm not so sure Oscar would work for the other partners. :)
     
  17. wayne

    wayne Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2007
    Messages:
    2,024
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    wayne
    In some locations $5.5k wouldn't even cover a year of hangar rent. On a newer plane, not brand new, newer, the insurance could also easily top that; higher hull value and $1 million or $2 million smooth liability.

    Some locations have property/use tax.

    Toss in database updates, and for a Cirrus reserves for thr chute and line cutters.

    So yes, it can be $20k or more.

    Add that you split not only the annual fixed costs, but also the capital acquisition cost. That's why some people decide that a partnership/co-ownership is worth it.

    It's not for everyone though.



    Wayne
     
  18. tspear

    tspear En-Route

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2010
    Messages:
    2,884
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Timothy
    Our fixed costs total 18k a year. Three of us, so I pay 6k. Saving 12k a year.
    This is chute reserve, insurance, hangar, database, annual inspection... Basically all fixed costs regardless if we fly or not.

    The insurance is the smallest portion of that, and from what the broker said when I evaluated going it alone a few years ago goes down only a couple hundred bucks to only insure me.

    Tim

    Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk
     
  19. David Megginson

    David Megginson Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2018
    Messages:
    1,636
    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Canuck
    For any decent-sized city (1m+), that's true.

    I've been happy with my plane outside, right in the core of Ottawa, for less than US $1k/year including club membership and electrical plugin. A good set of covers and a Tanis heater get me through the winter.

    Even if I had partners who could share the US $6–8k/year cost of hangars near a big city, I'd have to drive much further out of the city to find them, and if the airport weren't just a 20 minute drive (or 45 minute bike ride) away, I wouldn't slip away from my desk for a few hours to go flying nearly as often.

    There are lots of choices and trade-offs, with or without partners.
     
  20. focal_plane

    focal_plane Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2012
    Messages:
    163
    Location:
    AZ
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    focal_plane
    Ok, I see how your numbers add up. Was just curious.
     
  21. Albany Tom

    Albany Tom Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2021
    Messages:
    42
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Albany Tom
    I think you should convert each aircraft to a number for fun/year, and pick the higher number. For me, it would end up being as simple as $/hr and maximizing hrs/year, but that's because I'd probably rather fly the 182 than the Cirrus, and I don't have an unlimited budget. If you have more fun/hr with the Cirrus, then your math will be different than mine. In the end, we all lose the $, and all we have are the memories of fun. (More or less.)
     
    David Megginson likes this.
  22. David Megginson

    David Megginson Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2018
    Messages:
    1,636
    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Canuck
    That's one reason I never "upgraded" from my Piper PA-28-161. If you'd asked me after I bought it in 2002, I would have been certain I'd have been in something bigger and faster in 10 years, if not 5.

    But with (max) 124 KTAS cruise @ 8 gph LOP-WOT, 665 lb useful load left after full fuel, and 6 hours to empty tanks, it's done everything I've needed, including family trips before my kids grew up and moved out. Why mess with perfection?
     
  23. EdFred

    EdFred Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2005
    Messages:
    27,020
    Location:
    Michigan
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ed Frederick
    I'm at pretty much 5k on the dot for the yearly fixed costs:
    Hangar 40ft T, full concrete floor, electricity, electric bi-fold door $2220
    Insurance $55k hull, HP/retract $1300
    Annual without squawks $800
    Database updates $700
    No yearly property/use tax.

    I see what some of the rest of you are paying, and if I keep flying after I retire, I can't really see retiring anywhere else with the insane prices you pay.
     
  24. AlphaMike

    AlphaMike Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2019
    Messages:
    364
    Location:
    Michigan
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    AlphaMike
    Wow thats a great price! I assume thats owner assisted?
     
  25. EdFred

    EdFred Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2005
    Messages:
    27,020
    Location:
    Michigan
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ed Frederick
    Nope!

    That's them pulling apart everything that needs to be taken off, gear swing, compression check, whatever is in the mx manual, or whatever they are using.
     
  26. AlphaMike

    AlphaMike Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2019
    Messages:
    364
    Location:
    Michigan
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    AlphaMike
    Any chance you can send me some info? I'm not that far from you and I'm paying $1800 for a no squawk 182 fixed gear
     
  27. Ventucky Red

    Ventucky Red Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2013
    Messages:
    1,327
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Jon
    Didn't read through all 60 some odd replies, so this may have been already said.... but for me it comes down to fun cost per hour factor, that is are you getting enough out of the plane that justifies the ownership.