So no posts about TSA theater?

bflynn

bflynn

Touchdown! Greaser!
Joined
Apr 24, 2012
Messages
10,213
Location
KGIF
Display Name
Brian Flynn
The scale of their security theater failure was predictable, but this line from der homeland security great leader Jeh Johnson struck me:

Second, I have directed TSA to immediately brief the results of testing to the Federal Security Directors at every airport across the United States.

Is he saying that the every airports in the country has a FSDs? Or just the ones with 121 service, all those other things don't count?

Just struck me as narrow mindedness. Every pasture in this country longer than 1000' and some shorter are potential airports.
 
I just got up. Give me a chance to eat my Wheaties. They have a picture of the new Bruce Jenner on front.
 
A five percent success rate is about standard for the clowns in the federal branch. They are probably hiring apaarty planner for the all star blowout with our dollars to celebrate their success.
 
Commenting on the TSA is like ****ing in a dark suit.
 
They are insanely ineffective at finding weapons or explosives. I've seen it first hand. I've gone through several times with my flight bag and forgotten that I had my survival knife on me.

My ex-girlfriend went through with her rock climbing knife strapped to the OUTSIDE of her backpack. It wasn't noticed until an airport worker I knew came up and tapped me on the shoulder. :yikes::rolleyes2:
 
The government wants and there are just enough people who actually believe it's necessary or the "turrists are gonna get us". Same as with the stupid NSA surveillance which I see got shut down briefly thanks to Rand Paul.

I have to think anyone who is in favor of this stuff either has not taken the time to read up and actually think about it or they have a much much lower risk tolerance and higher trust in authority than I do.
 
what's to say? mosquitos are useless and annoying too, it doesn't mean there's something to discuss about them all the time
 
In the last 20 days I have visited 9 countries and the worst experience I had was when I returned to the US. I felt like a criminal and that they were doing me a favor by letting me back in. Customs + TSA = bad day.....
 
But remember, success isn't neccessarily how many people they catch trying to bring banned items through the checkpoint... It can be measured by how many never tried.
If there was absolutely zero security- no TSA or private screening whatsoever, do you think we would have lost anymore airplanes do to terrorism?
I do. So, can't we say that our airport security has worked fairly well?
 
I thought the TSA becoming unionized would solve everything?
 
Kritchlow said:
But remember, success isn't neccessarily how many people they catch trying to bring banned items through the checkpoint... It can be measured by how many never tried.
If there was absolutely zero security- no TSA or private screening whatsoever, do you think we would have lost anymore airplanes do to terrorism?
I do. So, can't we say that our airport security has worked fairly well?
Click to expand...

Sir, do you mind taking off your shoes? Maybe your underwear next? Lest we forget that there have been multiple tries after TSA was implemented. The only one who's stopped anything after the TSA fiasco have been citizen passengers.

I guess at some point when the bar for success is buried in the sand - anything can be justified.
 
docmirror said:
Sir, do you mind taking off your shoes? Maybe your underwear next? Lest we forget that there have been multiple tries after TSA was implemented. The only one who's stopped anything after the TSA fiasco have been citizen passengers.

I guess at some point when the bar for success is buried in the sand - anything can be justified.
Click to expand...
I'm not defending their success at the checkpoint, but no one can deny we haven't lost an airplane to terror since 2001. Something must be working.

Just curious, how would you handle security? Or would you have no security at all?
 
Kritchlow said:
I'm not defending their success at the checkpoint, but no one can deny we haven't lost an airplane to terror since 2001. Something must be working.

Just curious, how would you handle security? Or would you have no security at all?
Click to expand...

There are no elephants in my backyard either. I have a 100% success rate.

You don't want to know how I would do airline security. But - did you ever see the Gamesters of Triskelion Star Trek? Be a good throl.

j/k;)
 
Kritchlow said:
But remember, success isn't neccessarily how many people they catch trying to bring banned items through the checkpoint... It can be measured by how many never tried.
If there was absolutely zero security- no TSA or private screening whatsoever, do you think we would have lost anymore airplanes do to terrorism?
I do. So, can't we say that our airport security has worked fairly well?
Click to expand...

I don't, and the record agrees with me. Since 9/11, not one terrorist act attempt was stopped at security, yet several were stopped beyond security, on the plane, in the air, by the passengers. 9/11 happened only because it never happened before. Now the pax know that doing nothing = death, so now they act.
 
Henning said:
I don't, and the record agrees with me. Since 9/11, not one terrorist act attempt was stopped at security, yet several were stopped beyond security, on the plane, in the air, by the passengers. 9/11 happened only because it never happened before. Now the pax know that doing nothing = death, so now they act.
Click to expand...

So, you believe if we had no security that the stats would be the same as they are now?
 
Kritchlow said:
So, you believe if we had no security that the stats would be the same as they are now?
Click to expand...

I believe if we had anarchy we'd have a much more peaceful society than we have now. Security is nothing but theater, force nothing but an aggravating factor. Force fixes nothing, no war has ever been a win, wars haven't even ended. The same people have been fighting the same war for global financial dominance for over a thousand years now, one war progressing into the next. The War on Terror is an extension of the Crimean War which caused WWI, which caused WWII, in the middle of that the Bolsheviks revolted during WWI taking the Tsar out of contest.

Just fix the 5000 year old problem and it all disappears. Understand WHY you are under attack, and the solution becomes elegantly obvious, and we help ourselves up and out of this economic quagmire at the same time.
 
Henning said:
I don't, and the record agrees with me. Since 9/11, not one terrorist act attempt was stopped at security, yet several were stopped beyond security, on the plane, in the air, by the passengers. 9/11 happened only because it never happened before. Now the pax know that doing nothing = death, so now they act.
Click to expand...

:yeahthat:
 
ahkahn said:
:yeahthat:
Click to expand...

Than you are saying no terrorists have a desire... If security isn't a deterrent, and they can't stop them at the checkpoint, than why haven't there been any attacks?
 
Kritchlow said:
Than you are saying no terrorists have a desire... If security isn't a deterrent, and they can't stop them at the checkpoint, than why haven't there been any attacks?
Click to expand...

There have been attacks. Just not any that succeeded all the way.

Like the shoe bomber.
 
MAKG1 said:
There have been attacks. Just not any that succeeded all the way.

Like the shoe bomber.
Click to expand...

Yes... And now that we are aware of that we try to defend against it. Could you imagine the outcry if we did nothing about it (take off shoes) after that incident, then somebody succeeded??
I'm not saying taking off shoes at the checkpoint is the answer, but indeed we must do something even if it's reactive instead of proactive. Actually many here wouldn't stand for anything proactive either.
 
Why must we do something?

Action is not always the best answer. It's one choice, and it should be arrived at by conscious decision.

There are a very large number of potential attacks, and closing the barn door after the horses have left is not an effective strategy. Trying to enumerate and eliminate every possible threat is very easily reduced to absurdity.

The TSA has periodically resorted to sexual assault in the name of safety. At what point does it become excessive? I'll posit that the threat has to be real, significant, and most importantly, specific, to go that far. A similar standard to a search warrant would do it.

The point of 9/11 was to foment fear. Sometimes it surprises me how few people really understand that. It was unfortunately wildly successful, and the efforts to "do something" and make the world "safe" are highly counterproductive in that light.
 
Last edited:
MAKG1 said:
Why must we do something?

Action is not always the best answer. It's one choice, and it should be arrived at by conscious decision.

There are a very large number of potential attacks, and closing the barn door after the horses have left is not an effective strategy. Trying to enumerate and eliminate every possible threat is very easily reduced to absurdity.

The TSA has periodically resorted to sexual assault in the name of safety. At what point does it become excessive? I'll posit that the threat has to be real, significant, and most importantly, specific, to go that far. A similar standard to a search warrant would do it.
Click to expand...
No.. The TSA has never resorted to sexual assault. Yes, there have been some rogue inspectors, but you can say that about anyone from teachers to dentists.

Closing the barn door after the horse is clearly not the best method, but it may stop the same thing from happening again. Like an emergency AD after an accident caused by structural issue.
 
Kritchlow said:
No.. The TSA has never resorted to sexual assault. Yes, there have been some rogue inspectors, but you can say that about anyone from teachers to dentists.
Click to expand...

Having been groped repeatedly by the TSA, yes, sexual assaults happen as a matter of policy. They just choose not to call them that, since it would be a felony, but touching "private" areas for any reason without prior consent is a sexual assault.
 
MAKG1 said:
Having been groped repeatedly by the TSA, yes, sexual assaults happen as a matter of policy. They just choose not to call them that, since it would be a felony, but touching "private" areas for any reason without prior consent is a sexual assault.
Click to expand...

You have consented.

That said, before I was with the airline I was "frisked" every time. I didn't like it, but I never felt sexually assaulted.
 
MAKG1 said:
Having been groped repeatedly by the TSA, yes, sexual assaults happen as a matter of policy. They just choose not to call them that, since it would be a felony, but touching "private" areas for any reason without prior consent is a sexual assault.
Click to expand...

What you won't give up your dignity for a 5% chance at stopping something that might be happening 1 in about 300million flights?

Do you want the terrorist to win or something, commie? :rofl:
 
Kritchlow said:
I'm not defending their success at the checkpoint, but no one can deny we haven't lost an airplane to terror since 2001. Something must be working.

Just curious, how would you handle security? Or would you have no security at all?
Click to expand...

Security could easily be handled just as it is with every other mode of transportation, each of which contains about the same risk:

Metal detect on the way onboard the plane. One metal detector at each gate, with a private security guard standing by to take a nap when nothing happens.

The risk is overblown. 9/11 happened because no one on board stopped it (not a failure of theirs, they had no way of knowing what could happen).

Every incident since then has been stopped by other, non-governmental people. Just like it would if someone hijacked a city bus.
 
cowman said:
What you won't give up your dignity for a 5% chance at stopping something that might be happening 1 in about 300million flights?

Do you want the terrorist to win or something, commie? :rofl:
Click to expand...
Lol!!! But, how many did security stop that we don't know about? We will never know.
 
Kritchlow said:
You have consented.

That said, before I was with the airline I was "frisked" every time. I didn't like it, but I never felt sexually assaulted.
Click to expand...

How did I consent?

When that policy started, there was no notice. It just happened.

They groped my wife's boobs, too.

No notice, no consent, no legitimate authority, no accountability, just a few threats AFTER the assault when I objected.
 
MAKG1 said:
How did I consent?

When that policy started, there was no notice. It just happened.

They groped my wife's boobs, too.

No notice, no consent, no legitimate authority, no accountability, just a few threats AFTER the assault when I objected.
Click to expand...
I'm not positive about the legal part, but I know when you opt to go through TSA you automatically consent to search. Please don't yell at me, I don't make the rules.
 
Kritchlow said:
I'm not positive about the legal part, but I know when you opt to go through TSA you automatically consent to search. Please don't yell at me, I don't make the rules.
Click to expand...

Consenting to search is not equivalent to consenting to a groping. No one has a reasonable expectation of sexual assault.
 
MAKG1 said:
Consenting to search is not equivalent to consenting to a groping. No one has a reasonable expectation of sexual assault.
Click to expand...
But groping the wife's gazzoongs is not the policy. I'll bet on that.
 
Kritchlow said:
But groping the wife's gazzoongs is not the policy. I'll bet on that.
Click to expand...

How much?

The new procedures involve using the front of the hand to search for concealed items and more detailed tactile inspection of areas higher on the thigh and in the groin area. The procedures routinely involve touching of buttocks and genitals.
Click to expand...

Source: Congressional Research Service (Library of Congress), http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/homesec/R41502.pdf
 
SkyHog said:
Security could easily be handled just as it is with every other mode of transportation, each of which contains about the same risk:

Metal detect on the way onboard the plane. One metal detector at each gate, with a private security guard standing by to take a nap when nothing happens.

The risk is overblown. 9/11 happened because no one on board stopped it (not a failure of theirs, they had no way of knowing what could happen).

Every incident since then has been stopped by other, non-governmental people. Just like it would if someone hijacked a city bus.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Well said.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top