So, just how is someone supposed to get multi time these days?

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Pilot-To-Be

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I would like to expand my experience and acquire more multi engine time for future job opportunities. The problem is, insurance has made it nearly impossible to do it. Years ago, piston twins were quite common, now you can barely find one. If you do, the insurance requirements are so outrageous. Even entry level jobs want a couple hundred hours of multi, but how does one get that?

I sling gear now and then in a CJ1, the rare King Air 200 ride along etc., but none are true multi time gigs, without, you know, having the required multi engine time and being insurable. I’m not sure what to do. I really hate to pay $450hr for dual when I’d need a fair bit of it to really have a leg up. It seems cost prohibitive. Advice? How do you get that unicorn of a first opportunity as a launch pad?
 
Some survey companies with twins, Google em up, go up and “mow the lawn”, probably could at least get in with a piston op

Id also look at busy drop zones, if you’re over 1k tt probably could get into one of those and get some multi turbine time, the busy drop zones fly A LOT, look up desert sand leasing
 
You don't say whether you're a CFI (MEI) or not, but I entered a long-term lease on a Seminole from a out-of-town flight school to provide multiengine training in. That got me a few hundred hours of my ME time, and led to other ME opportunities - like people who trained with me because they were going to buy a Baron or 340, then hired me to teach them to fly that, etc. Then in some cases hired me to fly it FOR them, and on like that.

Admittedly, it was a tough snowball to get rolling. But once it did, I had more work than I could handle.
 
MEI is easy mode.

Skulk the airport and pester those of us with twins to take you for a ride or let you safety pilot/vice-versa or something.

Buy one? :) Apaches are cheap and seem to only exist to be passed around from pilot-wannabe to pilot-wannabe and serve no other useful purpose :D (kidding... mostly)
 
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Wagondriver said:
I bought an Aircam just for that purpose. $30/hr for fuel and oil changes. I got the hours I needed, now its for sale.
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Uhh

Ain’t that like a six figure price tag?

If dude mentioned $450hr like it’s a lot (it is) not sure he’ll crazy money just to get a job as a low time SIC or something

Frankly the Lazair is more practical for his mission, even with baby turbo props lol

I built most of my time in a twin jet, of course I GOT PAID to do it, god knows back then I wouldn’t have paid +$100,000.00 to get that time

Building time toodling around in your own plane is very different than flying the line, jump run, survey mission, etc
Some companies don’t care as much, but many would take a working low time working pilot over a rich guy burger run low time pilot
 
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Roller said:
Uhh

Ain’t that like a six figure price tag?

If dude mentioned $450hr like it’s a lot (it is) not sure he’ll crazy money just to get a job as a low time SIC or something
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$450/hr rental is money out the door. There's a lot of places now that want 250 hours of multi. That's $112,500 down the drain. Hey look, six figures.

So, buy an Aircam for $180K, fly it for 250 hours for $7500, and probably sell it for $200K! Free money and free multi time. ;)

Or, you could buy something like this for a lot less, but the operation costs will be much higher: https://www.aso.com/listings/spec/V...l=True&pagingNo=1&searchId=61402703&dealerid=
 
flyingcheesehead said:
$450/hr rental is money out the door. There's a lot of places now that want 250 hours of multi. That's $112,500 down the drain. Hey look, six figures.

So, buy an Aircam for $180K, fly it for 250 hours for $7500, and probably sell it for $200K! Free money and free multi time. ;)

Or, you could buy something like this for a lot less, but the operation costs will be much higher: https://www.aso.com/listings/spec/V...l=True&pagingNo=1&searchId=61402703&dealerid=
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Who?

His total time will probably be a issue before the 250ME comes into play

Ether way, survey or a drop zone if/when he gets around 1k tt will do it for him

If one debates paying $450hr for THAT many hours AFTER one got their CPL, just quit, probably ether independently wealthy/trust fund so just buy a 182 and chill, or this just ain’t goin to work as a career

Tons and tons of pilot have made it to the legacy, corp golf streams without having to do something that sad

I’d say less multi time and less debt will get you further than a low time (see low pay) greenhorn with six figures of debt

Worked for a few 135s where we had some SICs who were old rich guys who got near ATP mins flying their personal planes around, every single one was a glorified pax, third career which will go great because they were successful as a dentist/CPA/whatever, just a pain in ours butts really, most would “work” for nothing really, they didn’t need the money, which was why we unfortunately got burdened with them
 
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Roller said:
Worked for a few 135s where we had some SICs who were old rich guys who got near ATP mins flying their personal planes around, every single one was a glorified pax, third career which will go great because they were successful as a dentist/CPA/whatever, just a pain in ours butts really, most would “work” for nothing really, they didn’t need the money, which was why we unfortunately got burdened with them
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were they no good as pilots compared to, Iunno, the broke kid who scrabbled together his minimum time? Why would you tolerate them and not wash them out if they were a burden?

I ask as one who did 135 as a second career/midlife crisis/a-dudes-gotta-know and heard these sort of grumblings every so often. I didn't think it was directed at me but was never 100% sure. :) I do not consider myself a glorified pax.
 
schmookeeg said:
were they no good as pilots compared to, Iunno, the broke kid who scrabbled together his minimum time? Why would you tolerate them and not wash them out if they were a burden?

I ask as one who did 135 as a second career/midlife crisis/a-dudes-gotta-know and heard these sort of grumblings every so often. I didn't think it was directed at me but was never 100% sure. :) I do not consider myself a glorified pax.
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Wasn’t directed at anyone in particular

Most of them ended up being there for pax moral support

IE single pilot plane, pax wanted two pilots, they’d stuff them up front, but they tended to not progress very far

Another 135 where I had a hiring position, we didn’t take any of those guys on, a few we took on a ride along type deal, they were not interested in that level of physical work.
 
If you are current in complex a good MEI transition can be as short as Eight or nine hours. Just at $5K.
How much did your PVT ASEL cost?
Save your pennies.

B
 
Start early and get a little at a time. Look for paying ME gigs like survey or get your MEI if able. Skulk around airports and make friends with twin owners who want their planes flown and get on their insurance (I may have done some of this). I'll hit 250ME this year where this Dec is my 3 year anniversary of getting the rating - that's even with being an old rich ex-CPA/whatever who's working on the ATP next ;)
 
I built up something like 800 hours, some as a student, the rest flying overnight checks and as an instructor, not MEI. Then I went to Alaska. After a couple years I had enough total time to get into the twins. Then the hours started adding up pretty quickly.

It wasn't easy, in fact sometimes it was hard work, plus flying VFR in some of the coldest, nastiest, icy weather you never want to experience, but I got flight experience that no flight school could ever teach plus got those all important multi hours and got paid a decent wage for it.
 
Find someone to pay you to fly twins. The regionals hire with only 25 multi. I showed up to a charter company with 16 multi. I’m not paying for that!
 
I bought a beech travelair,was not the best looking aircraft,but fit the mission. Gas was cheaper ,insurance was the major issue for the first year of ownership. Find a couple of pilots to share the costs.
 
RyanShort1 said:
It's pretty competitive right now. People with 5K+ and 50 multi aren't getting hired.
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Off JSfirm, I’d wager with 5k and 50 multi you could score something decent if you interview well, seem hungry for it and have a half decent resume
 
Shoot, 5000 hrs will get you in a 91/135 multi turbine pronto…once you can explain why you have so many single hrs, sheesh
 
texasclouds said:
Shoot, 5000 hrs will get you in a 91/135 multi turbine pronto…once you can explain why you have so many single hrs, sheesh
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206.jpeg
I bet there are folks with 5,000 hours flying singles in Alaska or the Caribbean.
 
Roller said:
Depends what you fly,<20k MGTOW type planes lots of the single jobs are better than the multi ones
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The pic that was in my post was of a C206. 3,600 pounds gross. I know there are a lot of 206, 210 (4k GW), and 208s (8k GW) flying in both places. Maybe I'll try that . . . or a 185 . . . after I get a few more hours.
 
Rene said:
The pic that was in my post was of a C206. 3,600 pounds gross. I know there are a lot of 206, 210 (4k GW), and 208s (8k GW) flying in both places. Maybe I'll try that . . . or a 185 . . . after I get a few more hours.
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208 on amphibs or floats is a good gig

Got a few buddies who fly in AK for the season, make 150k or so, then go to Mexico and S America for the winter, not a bad life
 
Roller said:
208 on amphibs or floats is a good gig

Got a few buddies who fly in AK for the season, make 150k or so, then go to Mexico and S America for the winter, not a bad life
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$150k for the summer??? Wow, I flew in Alaska last summer flying passengers and cargo in a 206. I was promised $300/day, but the paycheck was $135/day. Never heard of numbers anywhere near that.

I have Caravan time and would go back for $150k. Gross weight on the 208b I was flying was 9062.
 
Wagondriver said:
$150k for the summer??? Wow, I flew in Alaska last summer flying passengers and cargo in a 206. I was promised $300/day, but the paycheck was $135/day. Never heard of numbers anywhere near that.

I have Caravan time and would go back for $150k. Gross weight on the 208b I was flying was 9062.
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TT and time on floats is a factor as is AK time

Generally the guys flying the 206 ain’t going to be say 2500tt kinda dudes
 
Roller said:
Got a few buddies who fly in AK for the season, make 150k or so,
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The most I ever made in Alaska was 350/day in the Navajo.

The most I ever made in the 206 was 285/day, and did a lot of off airport work, which I enjoyed immensely. This was between northeast, north and northwest Alaska. I flew one summer in the southeast and it was the most boring flying I had ever done. Except that one flight when the engine lost major power over Berners Bay.

There were some float pilots making 500/day in the southeast, but that was still around 70-75K for the season. considering a full 6 month season.
 
Zeldman said:
The most I ever made in Alaska was 350/day in the Navajo.

The most I ever made in the 206 was 285/day, and did a lot of off airport work, which I enjoyed immensely. This was between northeast, north and northwest Alaska. I flew one summer in the southeast and it was the most boring flying I had ever done. Except that one flight when the engine lost major power over Berners Bay.

There were some float pilots making 500/day in the southeast, but that was still around 70-75K for the season. considering a full 6 month season.
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Yeah, looking back it’s like 15k mo plus tips for some of these gigs
 
Zeldman said:
The most I ever made in Alaska was 350/day in the Navajo.

The most I ever made in the 206 was 285/day, and did a lot of off airport work, which I enjoyed immensely. This was between northeast, north and northwest Alaska. I flew one summer in the southeast and it was the most boring flying I had ever done. Except that one flight when the engine lost major power over Berners Bay.

There were some float pilots making 500/day in the southeast, but that was still around 70-75K for the season. considering a full 6 month season.
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I met a guy who said he used to do crazy **** like fly a Navajo from CDB and DUT to SNP.
 
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