Slider canopy or tip-up?

langted

Filing Flight Plan
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Ted
I am expecting to purchase either an Arion Lightning or a Sling 2 kit this Summer. I know these are very different airplanes, but then I like them for different reasons. One of the many variables (other than performance) is that the Sling has a slider, while the Lightning has a tip-up canopy. I think I would like the slider better, but I am wondering if that is really a big deal or not. The Lightning canopy can at least be propped up a couple inches until take-off. I live in Southern Michigan-- we get summer temperatures in the mid 90s with high humidity, but usually only a few days of that. How badly do you roast with a tip-up in the sun?

Thanks
Ted
 
Some planes with a slider (Tiger comes to mind) may be flown with the canopy open. I don't know if the Sling can be flown that way, or if it matters to you.
 
I have a slider on my RV. Really comfortable to taxi on a hot summer day with it open. Yes, you can prop a tip up open, but you don’t get near the airflow/cooling. On a gusty day, care needs to be taken opening a tip up, a gust of wind can ruin your day. Downside to a slider is that there is a support tube for the windshield that restricts visibility, somewhat IMHO. It acts as a roll bar placed in front of you vs behind you with a tip up. Also, construction of a slider can be more difficult, but some times you just have to man up. One other advantage other than visibility to a tip up is easier access to the back side of your panel to get at avionics etc. downside to that, at least with some RV models, is that you need to take precaution regarding preventing rain water from getting back there.

Tip up vs slider
What primer to use
Tailwheel vs nose gear
Side by side vs tandem

These are all the controversies in the RV world. All just a matter of personal preference.

For me, the slider just looks more cooler.
 
Probably not endorsed by The Aircraft Factory, but it appears you can slide the canopy open in flight on a Sling 2.

My preference would be a slider for emergency situations. But my Sportcruiser is a tilt-up design and I’m OK with it. But on the Sling, I have to duck my head a little to clear the front edge of the canopy since I’m “the tallest guy sitting.” (Blame the long torso genes from my Asian heritage.)

 
Some planes with a slider (Tiger comes to mind) may be flown with the canopy open. I don't know if the Sling can be flown that way, or if it matters to you.
Very important.

Look into the limitations. Sliding canopies kind of suck if you can’t fly with them open.


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I've said it before.....

where do you want your leaks?

Sliders leak aft, Tippers leak forward. Pick your poison.
 
Thanks for all the comments - and the link to the RV forum discussion. So, what I am taking from this, overall, is that sliders are not as "hot" (which is expected), leak in a different spot, and pose different limitations relative to baggage and avionics access, and are different for ingress/egress, and tip-up have to watched in wind. Safety MAY be better with a slider, but not confirmed. (I HATE being hot, but this is probably less of an issue in Michigan than some places.) The main sense I am getting from it all is that a slider may be preferable for the majority, but some actually prefer tip-up, and therefore I shouldn't let it be THE deciding factor in the airplane choice (just a "plus" in the Sling 2 column.)
 
I've said it before.....

where do you want your leaks?

Sliders leak aft, Tippers leak forward. Pick your poison.

That depends on how well you've done your rear canopy skirt. But if there is leakage, aft is my choice....keep your powder and your electronics dry!! :)
 
My slider leaks forward.
I wonder if they put it on backwards.

On a Van's slider, the windshield is bonded to the fuselage via the windshield fairing, which consists of many layers of fiberglass. In fact, you use the closed canopy as a mold for the aft edge of the fairing (after covering it with clear packing tape, which is then coated with a mold release agent like car wax). So when it's done, the fairing overhangs the rear edge of the windscreen, and overlaps the closed canopy by a couple inches or so. Very watertight!

Here's a build shot with the first layers...before the sanding/filling/reglassing/filling/sand-some-more marathon had started. Black dye was added to the epoxy so the yellowish color of raw fiberglass won't be seen around the perimeter from inside the aircraft.

Replacing a windscreen is something I hope to never do!!

IMG_3566.JPG
 
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My tip up is hot as hell here in AZ, but I would not trade it for the better visibility, and the couple of times I have had to get behind the panel for maintenance.
 
Slider on my RV-7A and love it. I also installed the FlyBoy Accessories super track mod, which allows the slider to go back another 9 inches and makes access to the baggage compartment a non-problem. No leaks around the aft canopy, thanks to easy to install seals. My hangar mate with a RV-6 tip up enjoys better visibility with no roll-bar up front but has dumped water on his avionics twice now and had to leave everything turned off until it dried on the way home. He is now a slider fan.
 
From the safety side of the question....

Which one can be opened by pilot or passenger when (if ever) upside down and in the grass.??

I saw one video, which of course I can't find now, where the plane with a tip up tipped over during an off airport landing and the pilot had to wait for responders to lift the tail of the aircraft so the pilot (uninjured fortunately) could crawl out. If there had been a fire......
 
From the safety side of the question....

Which one can be opened by pilot or passenger when (if ever) upside down and in the grass.??

I saw one video, which of course I can't find now, where the plane with a tip up tipped over during an off airport landing and the pilot had to wait for responders to lift the tail of the aircraft so the pilot (uninjured fortunately) could crawl out. If there had been a fire......


I have a non-homebulit slider (Tiger). I don't think either would be able to be opened while upside down.... Both ways would surely have pressures and weight to where they could not be opened.

I love having the canopy but once upside down, I don't see it as an automatic benefit.
 
And still another option -- fixed canopy fore and aft, but middle section windows that slide into the fuseledge, like Ercoupes.
 
t6-trainer.jpg

Option 4- The tip over canopy.
 
From the safety side of the question....

Which one can be opened by pilot or passenger when (if ever) upside down and in the grass.??

I saw one video, which of course I can't find now, where the plane with a tip up tipped over during an off airport landing and the pilot had to wait for responders to lift the tail of the aircraft so the pilot (uninjured fortunately) could crawl out. If there had been a fire......

Small chance of being able to open a slider post-flip, but none at all with a tipper. Sometimes the flip-over can break the plexi and you can break out sections and crawl out. Just about everyone I know carries a Life Hammer or equivalent to break the plexi if the need arises.
 
Very interesting discussion. If you're upside down, even uninjured, do you have the room to swing a Life Hammer? If injured, seems it would be really hard.
Isn't the canopy a large part of what's keeping you off the ground?
Do any aircraft have a roll bar type of structure that supports the cockpit if upside down on the ground?
Likewise, ways to jettison the canopy shortly before impact? (If you know things are going to go poorly.)
What typically happens to the rudder and empennage?
Scary stuff, man. Of course, low-wings typically have one door and Cessnas are known to easily distort door frames.
 
Very interesting discussion. If you're upside down, even uninjured, do you have the room to swing a Life Hammer? If injured, seems it would be really hard.
Isn't the canopy a large part of what's keeping you off the ground?
Do any aircraft have a roll bar type of structure that supports the cockpit if upside down on the ground?
Depends on the airplane. Some (like the T6 have a king post/roll bar between the two pilots that will keep you from being crushed. But you may not be able to open the canopy once you are upside down (which is why many take off and land with the canopy open.



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The RV sliders have a support bar and roll structure at the front (the visibility minus side) and the tippers have a roll structure right behind the passengers.
 
The RV sliders have a support bar and roll structure at the front (the visibility minus side) and the tippers have a roll structure right behind the passengers.
That being the case, would it be a good idea to open a slider before reaching the ground in a forced landing scenario? Or, would you want whatever additional protection the closed canopy could provide if you flip?
 
That being the case, would it be a good idea to open a slider before reaching the ground in a forced landing scenario? Or, would you want whatever additional protection the closed canopy could provide if you flip?

I think you'd want to at least pop it open a bit, if possible, like you do a door on other planes. Some with sliders on their RV install quick release pins in leu of bolts at the front roller attach points to allow for the canopy to be toss prior to landing. Some tip-ups have a quick release on their fwd hinges for the same purpose.
 
I think you'd want to at least pop it open a bit, if possible, like you do a door on other planes. Some with sliders on their RV install quick release pins in leu of bolts at the front roller attach points to allow for the canopy to be toss prior to landing. Some tip-ups have a quick release on their fwd hinges for the same purpose.

Heck, it's experimental. Rig it up with explosive bolts and a rocket jettison system if you want!

I'd definitely unlatch before landing, and cinch up the 5-point harnesses Guttenteit. :)
 
That being the case, would it be a good idea to open a slider before reaching the ground in a forced landing scenario? Or, would you want whatever additional protection the closed canopy could provide if you flip?

Personally, I'd rather use the plexi as another layer of defense for my cranium.

But, open or closed really depends on the situation. Simple off-airport? Canopy stays closed. I'm betting the airplane stops upright. Soft soil or water? I'm still going with a closed canopy. I'll find a way out if I'm conscious.

An onboard fire? Canopy open.
 
Lets ask @SixPapaCharlie, He's flies two certified airplanes with those flimsy, fully cantering nose wheels.

One has gull wing doors, the other is a slider.

What will you do WHEN you flip over. Since apparently these things flip over all the time. [Sarcasm]

Regular readers know when I folded my nose gear in a tipper I magically did not flip. And as @SoCal RV Flyer said, those 5 point harnesses do their jobs well. @mscard88 will be happy to know my harnesses are Hookers. http://www.classicaerodesigns.com/w...=81&ProductCategory=RV-6&ProductCategoryID=16
 
As a former tip-up owner, I'd say go with slider...
Me with my experimental:
upload_2018-6-7_23-0-33.png
 
As requested... note they are color matched to the seats, and the exterior!
hookers.JPG
 
Thanks everyone. Despite sliders being the clear favorite, I decided yesterday on the Arion Lightning kit and sent in my deposit. So now I'm a reluctant tipper. I made up a decision spreadsheet and weighted the canopy type quite highly. I think I would have been happy with the Sling 2 and it scored well But in the end, the slider vs tip-up aspect was just not quite enough to overcome the much higher cruise speed of the lightning, faster build, slightly lower final price, and wide engine choice.

Ted
 
Personally, I'd rather use the plexi as another layer of defense for my cranium.

But, open or closed really depends on the situation. Simple off-airport? Canopy stays closed. I'm betting the airplane stops upright. Soft soil or water? I'm still going with a closed canopy. I'll find a way out if I'm conscious.

An onboard fire? Canopy open.
Seriously, you might want to rethink that policy.

The plexiglass is going to have a minimal effect on protecting your head. But it could also be the thing that makes the difference between you being alive or dying after the landing.

There was a highly respected pilot who was killed in a P-47 not too long ago after making a perfect ditching in NY. Canopy was stuck. He couldn’t get out after he landed and drowned.

Canopies are known to jam during forced landings. Being conscious won’t necessarily save you.
 
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