SID max speed seems to contradict the under the Bravo max speed

Beatle1967

Filing Flight Plan
Joined
Oct 26, 2019
Messages
12
Display Name

Display name:
Beatle1967
Hello all,

A friend of mine posted this question to me. On the SPTNS1 departure out of San Jose the charted maximum speed at STCLR is 230K. He was in the turn at 230K and admonished by ATC for going too fast since it was under the San Francisco Bravo.

My gut says the chart has precedence over FAR 91.117 and the controller was wrong.

Comments / discussion welcome.

Thanks
 
May take would be, as per
§ 91.117 Aircraft speed.
(b) Unless otherwise authorized or required by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft at or below 2,500 feet above the surface within 4 nautical miles of the primary airport of a Class C or Class D airspace area at an indicated airspeed of more than 200 knots (230 mph.).
Since he was issued that departure by atc, it was authorized.
 
Hello all,

A friend of mine posted this question to me. On the SPTNS1 departure out of San Jose the charted maximum speed at STCLR is 230K. He was in the turn at 230K and admonished by ATC for going too fast since it was under the San Francisco Bravo.

My gut says the chart has precedence over FAR 91.117 and the controller was wrong.

Comments / discussion welcome.

Thanks
91.117 c. applies. 200 knots is the speed limit until 6000.
 
Neither the SID nor ATC can waive 14 CFR 91.117 (c), which is the 200 KIAS restriction below the floor of Class B airspace, because paragraph (c) does not have an "unless otherwise..." provision. Pilots must observe the 200 KT restriction while beneath the lateral confines of the CBA.

What 91.117 does have is a paragraph (d) which provides relief for aircraft that can not fly that slow.

The "MAX 230 KT" notation is for those aircraft so that they will complete the turn within the airspace allocated for the turn. At higher airspeeds, the radius would exceed those limits.
 
Hello all,

A friend of mine posted this question to me. On the SPTNS1 departure out of San Jose the charted maximum speed at STCLR is 230K. He was in the turn at 230K and admonished by ATC for going too fast since it was under the San Francisco Bravo.

My gut says the chart has precedence over FAR 91.117 and the controller was wrong.

Comments / discussion welcome.

Thanks
There's not necessarily a contradiction since 200 is less than 230.
 
Sorta surprised Norcal made the time, but I think the "at or below" on the SID is going to put 91.117(c) as overriding. You can speed up later on the SID when you're out from under the class B
 
May take would be, as per
§ 91.117 Aircraft speed.
(b) Unless otherwise authorized or required by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft at or below 2,500 feet above the surface within 4 nautical miles of the primary airport of a Class C or Class D airspace area at an indicated airspeed of more than 200 knots (230 mph.).
Since he was issued that departure by atc, it was authorized.
Hmm.
 
May take would be, as per
§ 91.117 Aircraft speed.
(b) Unless otherwise authorized or required by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft at or below 2,500 feet above the surface within 4 nautical miles of the primary airport of a Class C or Class D airspace area at an indicated airspeed of more than 200 knots (230 mph.).
Since he was issued that departure by atc, it was authorized.
Where does the departure say, "Go faster than 200kts"?
 
The Opposing Bases guys tackled this very question a few months ago in episode 247, around the 29 min mark, with feedback on the following episode 248, 27:30mark. The cliff notes is they agree with the regs (here’s the legal interpretation
https://www.faa.gov/about/office_or.../Duncan-AFS-1_4_2015_Legal_Interpretation.pdf ) but they acknowledge they don’t see what your indicated airspeed is. So under the there’s the regs and then there’s real life, if everyone is speeding, they aren’t going to raise a flag as they want the flow to continue without disruption, or words to that effect.
 
Back
Top