SIC Type Rating, what to expect?

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JC150

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JC150
I’m heading to CAE to get an SIC type and I’m curious what I should expect when I get there? Do I need to have anything memorized before I get there? Or is the SIC type a show up and pass kind of thing?
 
What’s the sic in ? 91 or 135?

You will have know all the memory items , emergency procedures , and be able to do a majority of the maneuvers a pic would. I did it last year in a falcon 20 and it was a week of ground and a 18 hours in sim. It’s not just a show up and pass but it is easier than a full type in my opinion.
 
Like Muddy said, it varies greatly between 91 and 135.

For a basic 91 SIC, it is really not a big deal. Show up, give them your money, sit through a few ground sessions, then do a few takeoffs and landings in the sim and they hand you a piece of paper that says you are SIC qualified. It’s not even pass/fail. There is no minimum standard of proficiency and no checkride.

No real need to prep in advance. They will teach you everything you need to know, which is just enough to be dangerous....

That’s for part 91. What Muddy describes is more along the lines of what to expect for 135
 
Never been to CAE, but FSI will send you a email about anything they want you to review before showing up, I’d think CAE would do the same :dunno:
 
JC150 said:
I’m heading to CAE to get an SIC type and I’m curious what I should expect when I get there? Do I need to have anything memorized before I get there? Or is the SIC type a show up and pass kind of thing?
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An SIC type rating, as @Fearless Tower said, isn't a big deal.

The question I think you should be asking is "what can I do to make the training I'm going to receive most effective?" The answer to that would be study the memory items and limitations so that you can spout them off without having to think about them. If you do that, both the classroom and simulator training will be much more effective.

Edit: I’d also suggest making sure your instrument flying skills are up to par...whatever you’re going to learn, it’s still an airplane...they’re just there to teach you how to apply what you already know about flying to the new type, not teach you basic instrument flying.
 
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Like James said, I would have thought they would have sent some study material....
 
Funny you'd ask. I am at CAE right now for the Citation II type rating. There is a student in our class who is here for the SIC type rating (he won a scholarship for it).

He will attend all the same ground school as we do (6 days).
He will have three simulator sessions, meaning about 12 hours I think, apparently sitting both left and right seat.
He will not have a checkride or any kind of graded event.

As @MauleSkinner suggests, to get the most value out of his training, he is (so far) treating it as if he would have to take a checkride. Which would mean studying and memorizing the various checklist memory items, limitations, etc.
 
RussR said:
I don't think that's true. The SIC student in my class got an email like I did with links to the study material, the week prior to the class.
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Probably depends on the training center.

When I did my SIC recurrent, I got nothing in advance.
 
My suggestion is somehow pony up the money for the full PIC type and end up with something of real value on your certificate. Negotiate with CAE. They’ll work with you.
 
Lance F said:
My suggestion is somehow pony up the money for the full PIC type and end up with something of real value on your certificate. Negotiate with CAE. They’ll work with you.
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Dude, a full jet type will run close to $15-20k for something like a Citation, or much more for bigger/faster jets vs $4-6k for an SIC.

Unless you are getting a type because you actually own the plane, no one should be paying for a PIC type in this market.

In most cases, you probably don’t need to pay for an SIC type either, unless you need something to get your foot in the door.

Telling someone to shell out $20k+ right for a piece of plastic that won’t be of any use unless they can keep paying to stay current is bad advice.

I’m honestly surprised to hear such a recommendation from you.
 
A. I’m not a dude
B. I only post on this board when I have a question or have some personal experience or expertice on the thread subject.
C. Look at the last line of my signature. I know of what I speak. (I didn’t pay for any of my types.)
D. In my experience the price difference in the PIC and SIC isn’t as significant as you state. I could be wrong, but it costs nothing to ask.
E. Let me change my wording from “pony up the difference” to “work out something with whoever is paying for the SIC so that you can get the PIC.”
F. Does anybody think an SIC is worth anything compared to a PIC.?
 
I gotta go with Lance on this one. The difference in price will probably be simply the cost of the extra sim sessions. And like Lance says, CAE will negotiate.

I've heard all sort of first hand stories of folks that paid for their own type ratings (independent contractors) that negotiated costs down to a small percentage of what corporations pay.
 
curious: what is necessary to maintain a SIC type rating? Continuing/sim experience every year or two? Other?
 
You keep the rating forever. If you want to fly SIC, there's a 12 month familiarity requirement: See 61.55(b).
 
If someone is only willing to pay for your SIC rating, run away, as fast as you can.
SIC ratings are mostly useless, and if the company isn't willing to spend the money for a full PIC rating, it shows how little they really appreciate you...
 
Lance F said:
My suggestion is somehow pony up the money for the full PIC type and end up with something of real value on your certificate. Negotiate with CAE. They’ll work with you.
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What Lance said! It is very little more, training and or money, to get the full PIC type. The SIC type only came around to meet international requirements. There is no FAA requirement to have an SIC type if you are only flying in the US.
 
flyingron said:
You keep the rating forever. If you want to fly SIC, there's a 12 month familiarity requirement: See 61.55(b).
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Same for PIC, 61.58. Every one or two years depending on how many airplanes you are flying requiring a type.
 
Plano Pilot said:
Same for PIC, 61.58. Every one or two years depending on how many airplanes you are flying requiring a type.
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61.58 requires a checkride...read the checklists and do a little OEI maneuving, and 61.55 is pretty much taken care of in day to day flying.
 
Lance F said:
A. I’m not a dude
D. In my experience the price difference in the PIC and SIC isn’t as significant as you state. I could be wrong, but it costs nothing to ask.
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I paid less than $2000 for my 525 SIC rating. The price difference is big. You can do all the flying in under 30 minutes. Anyone who is current MEL-IA can do the required 3 landings just fine. We had 5 students in the plane and we just swapped seats every 3 landings. A couple engine cuts and 10 minutes of air work and you've meet the FAA requirement. Doesn't make you Mr Super Jet pilot but its more fun than drinking coffee at Denny's.

-Robert
 
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