Should I stay in the US or go to France

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Hippovrm

Filing Flight Plan
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Hippolyte
Hey everyone!

I’m a junior in high school in the DFW area and I will soon have to make quite a big decision about my future.

I am French and currently am on my 5th year in the US with a visa. Currently my visa is set to end by the end of my time in HS, and after that we still haven’t figured out if my family will stay in the US and get a greencard or if we will come back to France. Part of this decision can be influenced by me since they will just go back to Europe if I do too as there simply isn’t as much incentive to stay here.

So I am coming here to ask for help, what should I do? Stay here? Or go back to France?

If I decide to stay here, what should be my first steps to start getting into the formation?

If someone knows what it’s like being a pilot in Europe/France vs the US then I would love to know more about it.

PS my budget isn’t that large either.
Thanks for y’all’s replies!
 
I'd take your question over here:

PPRuNe Forums - Professional Pilots Rumour Network

The Professional Pilots Rumour Network (PPRuNe) is an aviation website dedicated to airline pilots and those who are considering a career as a commercial pilot.
www.pprune.org

They're probably more likely to know about the aviation path in France.
 
My wife is French, and along with her ex, and her two sons.
All are in USA and not looking to go back. We have a number of friends who are French expats who have decided to stay in the USA, even through retirement.
There are a huge number of French expats in New England. I forget the number but it is really high.

PM me your contact information along with the text you want to introduce yourself. One of my wife's friends back in France is a professional pilot. He might be willing to talk.

Tim
 
I'll answer this question not from an aviation standpoint but just from a life and personal standpoint. I am from Germany. Moved to the U.S. for my senior year in high school and then went on to college in Texas. After college, I couldn't find an immediate path to GC or citizenship so visa expired and I had to ship myself back to Germany where I went on to live for two years. Those two years were probably the most miserable years in my life so far. Some Europeans never get used to life in the U.S. and have no issues going back, heck may even prefer going back, but if you're anything like me where you adopted the U.S. culture, got used to the American way of life and enjoy it, even remotely, I can guarantee you, IT WILL BE HARD living in France again after five years in the U.S. especially in a place like Texas. Just my 2 cents obviously but if you have the chance to obtain your GC and stay in the U.S., if I had that option back then, there would have been no doubt in my mind I would have taken it and saved me those two awful years in Germany.
 
I’ve spent time in France, I’m in Paris now. From an aviation standpoint it is much, much, MUCH cheaper to fly in the US.

In France, flying would be through clubs. They’re expensive to join and the airplanes are expensive to rent, probably on order of a 141 school in the US.

What is the goal? If it’s to fly for a living, I suggest a university in the US with an aviation program. Your family could move back and you join them after school. You could be a significant way down the road and it would be much faster to covert your certificate afterwards.
 
DFW is going to beat most anywhere from an aviation perspective. It's competitive, but there are tons of opportunities. If you want to visit the home country, you're in a pretty good place to launch from.
 
tspear said:
My wife is French, and along with her ex, and her two sons.
All are in USA and not looking to go back. We have a number of friends who are French expats who have decided to stay in the USA, even through retirement.
There are a huge number of French expats in New England. I forget the number but it is really high.

PM me your contact information along with the text you want to introduce yourself. One of my wife's friends back in France is a professional pilot. He might be willing to talk.

Tim
Click to expand...
Hey thanks for this reply, yeah we also know quite a few French people who say they would not like to go back to France.

I tried to PM you but it says “you cannot start a conversation with tspear”. Maybe this is due to some of your settings? Or it could be from my side as well, I really don’t know much about operating through this forum.

Hippolyte
 
Hippovrm said:
…I tried to PM you but it says “you cannot start a conversation with tspear”. Maybe this is due to some of your settings? Or it could be from my side as well, I really don’t know much about operating through this forum.

Hippolyte
Click to expand...

It happens when someone sets their profile to private .

Which are better, American women or French women? Go there.
 
Hippovrm said:
Hey thanks for this reply, yeah we also know quite a few French people who say they would not like to go back to France.

I tried to PM you but it says “you cannot start a conversation with tspear”. Maybe this is due to some of your settings? Or it could be from my side as well, I really don’t know much about operating through this forum.

Hippolyte
Click to expand...

I believe you need a certain minimum number of posts before you can send PMs.

What's your goal? If you're finishing HS, right now I'm surprised you're not trying to decide where it would be better to attend college. There are one or two fair to middlin' schools in Texas, from what I've heard.
 
Chrisgoesflying said:
I'll answer this question not from an aviation standpoint but just from a life and personal standpoint. I am from Germany. Moved to the U.S. for my senior year in high school and then went on to college in Texas. After college, I couldn't find an immediate path to GC or citizenship so visa expired and I had to ship myself back to Germany where I went on to live for two years. Those two years were probably the most miserable years in my life so far. Some Europeans never get used to life in the U.S. and have no issues going back, heck may even prefer going back, but if you're anything like me where you adopted the U.S. culture, got used to the American way of life and enjoy it, even remotely, I can guarantee you, IT WILL BE HARD living in France again after five years in the U.S. especially in a place like Texas. Just my 2 cents obviously but if you have the chance to obtain your GC and stay in the U.S., if I had that option back then, there would have been no doubt in my mind I would have taken it and saved me those two awful years in Germany.
Click to expand...

So WTH are you doing freezing in Canada?
 
Chrisgoesflying said:
I'll answer this question not from an aviation standpoint but just from a life and personal standpoint. I am from Germany. Moved to the U.S. for my senior year in high school and then went on to college in Texas. After college, I couldn't find an immediate path to GC or citizenship so visa expired and I had to ship myself back to Germany where I went on to live for two years. Those two years were probably the most miserable years in my life so far. Some Europeans never get used to life in the U.S. and have no issues going back, heck may even prefer going back, but if you're anything like me where you adopted the U.S. culture, got used to the American way of life and enjoy it, even remotely, I can guarantee you, IT WILL BE HARD living in France again after five years in the U.S. especially in a place like Texas. Just my 2 cents obviously but if you have the chance to obtain your GC and stay in the U.S., if I had that option back then, there would have been no doubt in my mind I would have taken it and saved me those two awful years in Germany.
Click to expand...
Liked 'merica so much decided to stay in Canada... Eh?
 
Half Fast said:
So WTH are you doing freezing in Canada?
Click to expand...
Racerx said:
Liked 'merica so much decided to stay in Canada... Eh?
Click to expand...

Well, with the account size I had back then, 'merica only gave me the option to jump from short term visa to short term visa, never being able to really settle. I'm unemployable (I hate the thought of earning $1 to make someone else $10), so my options are limited to immigration options for entrepreneurs or investors. In Canada, with my account size, I was able to get permanent residency and eventually citizenship. It's the second best option after 'merica especially considering I can now travel to the States on a whim (I'm literally half an hour from the border), spend winters in Florida, go back "home" to Canada (where I still have access to 90% of what the U.S. has to offer, instead of having to go across the pond where life is just sooo different compared to North America) and most of all, grow my account size to eventually make my way over to 'merica on a more permanent basis (I'm still pretty young ;-))... Y'know, doing it all the legal immigration way is actually rather difficult (and expensive) ;-)
 
Half Fast said:
I believe you need a certain minimum number of posts before you can send PMs.

What's your goal? If you're finishing HS, right now I'm surprised you're not trying to decide where it would be better to attend college. There are one or two fair to middlin' schools in Texas, from what I've heard.
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I really didn’t expect to stay until more recently,

I’ve always wanted to join the Air France cadets program which would be payed for by the airline, but I’m starting to doubt if I can be selected (around 100 selected out of 3000 to 4000). My other option which is free (public) is l’ENAC but it is also extremely selective. So maybe I have equal or better chances in the US which is a country that I like basically as much as France.

The other route I could take in France would be the “private” stream which would pretty much be like getting you license in the US with a cost of I believe between 85 000€ to 100 000€ (?)

If I decide to stay here, I’ve looked into colleges that have aviation programs but I also don’t know enough about them, do I need them to become an airline pilot? Should I start the training for my pilot license?
 
If you’re currently a junior, you should see about getting your glider rating down at JWY as a first step.

I’m local and would be happy to chat sometime (can’t this weekend, but afterwards, fine) at Dallas Executive and try to talk you through different options.
 
Hippovrm said:
If I decide to stay here, I’ve looked into colleges that have aviation programs but I also don’t know enough about them, do I need them to become an airline pilot? Should I start the training for my pilot license?
Click to expand...
You don't _need_ them, but they're a good idea and if your flying career ends prematurely (say because of a medical problem), you'll have a degree to fall back on. There are many more schools than Emery Riddle.

The colleges that I'm aware of run as a part 141 school and will get you through at least your commercial certificate with the bare minimum to start working, some much further. Having been through the part 141 school, your hours required for the Air Transport Pilot certificate is lower.

US airlines hire from three pools; military, part 141, private. Very few pilots make it through the private route because of the cost and almost all that do were flight instructors. I've done a project in pilot onboarding and training in the past for a major US airline, so an educated guess, I'd put those ratios at 70% / 25% / 5%. That is probably skewed right for the regional airlines.

Your goal should be get to ~500 hours with as much multi-engine time as you can and your commercial certificate. From that, you can get hired in the charter world as a first officer and start getting "paid". At 1000 hours, you can look at a regional for an ATP, but you might want to stay and gain more experience. The odds of getting hired at 1000 hours in a major airline is slim.

In any case, it will be lean in the beginning, but like all jobs, with time and experience it gets better.
 
Hippovrm said:
Should I start the training for my pilot license?
Click to expand...

You should start training for a Private Pilot certificate right now if you can. The more hours you have the better.

College isn't a firm requirement right now with the airlines, but it has been in the past and likely will be again as the hiring surge subsides. Besides, you need a backup plan, so get a degree in something that will put a roof over your head and feed you if a pilot career doesn't pan out.
 
Hippovrm said:
If someone knows what it’s like being a pilot in Europe/France vs the US then I would love to know more about it.
Click to expand...
If your sincere interest is in aviation and flying aircraft, stay in the US. I am an immigrant from Europe, my wife is an immigrant from Europe (from another country) and I have an ongoing active interest in European aviation. Based on my own experiences flying there and those of airplane owning friends flying there, it is apparent to me that NOBODY except the pilots themselves has any interest in General Aviation continuing in Europe and I suspect that within your lifetime it will be essentially dead. The only sector of European aviation other than the airlines (which are themselves under political pressure) that will be sustainable is nationally registered ultralights, flying locally. If that's enough for you, or if your main interest is in being an airline pilot, then OK. If you do want to be an airline pilot, train in the US. It will be much cheaper and easier.

If I were you and I wanted for other, non-aviation reasons to return to France I would first get a green card if that is a practical proposition, then get US citizenship. Once you have it nobody can take it, and in conjunction with EU citizenship it will give you much wider options and opportunities for flying, employment and residence. I have a Mooney Bravo owning friend in Europe who sold his company and is not short of time or money. His project now is first to get his pilot certificates and plane to the US, then expand his new business to the US so he can live here part time. That's a lot of effort to provide him with better flying and more options in life, and he's very much in the upper segment of society without any economic difficulties where he is. So if you've lucked into that opportunity now without the same level of effort and expense, do it.
 
Last edited:
Hippovrm said:
Hey everyone!

I’m a junior in high school in the DFW area and I will soon have to make quite a big decision about my future.

I am French and currently am on my 5th year in the US with a visa. Currently my visa is set to end by the end of my time in HS, and after that we still haven’t figured out if my family will stay in the US and get a greencard or if we will come back to France. Part of this decision can be influenced by me since they will just go back to Europe if I do too as there simply isn’t as much incentive to stay here.

So I am coming here to ask for help, what should I do? Stay here? Or go back to France?

If I decide to stay here, what should be my first steps to start getting into the formation?

If someone knows what it’s like being a pilot in Europe/France vs the US then I would love to know more about it.

PS my budget isn’t that large either.
Thanks for y’all’s replies!
Click to expand...
My vote is to stay, but then again, that's what I did. My sister on the other hand chose to go back. Neither of us have regretted our decisions. I moved from France to Florida freshman year of high school. While I was here legally the entire time, it wasn't until graduate school that I was eligible and obtained a green card. Not knowing whether I would be able to stay here permanently was stressful and the inability to work was a pain. That did take a toll.

I don't think I could have re-established myself in France; I'm too American. I love our freedoms and just wouldn't have fit culturally. The world here was my oyster and any career path was available; it would have been much more restrictive in France and I'm not confident that I would have done well scholastically. Would you be able to keep up with your peers when in comes to writing? My verbal skills hadn't perished, but I don't think I could still write competently when I turned 18 and find it more and more difficult as I age.

Feel free to reach out if you have any questions,

Paul
 
I know your decision is based on more than flying, but if you are considering a career in aviation I think you should stay. I base that suggestion on an article about the Air France disaster written by William Langewiesch called "The Human Factor". He describes the differences in attitudes and training of American pilots vs French pilots and how that led to the disaster. It is a long article but much of it is worthy of reading twice. Even if you go to France and pursue pilot traning there, having an understanding of the differences may help you to be a better pilot. Hope this helps,

archive.vanityfair.com

The Human Factor | Vanity Fair

archive.vanityfair.com archive.vanityfair.com
 
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