Should I consider a consult with and/or fully undertake the HIMS process?

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I'm failing to understand how it's taking you 6 hours plus to visit one

I’m failing to understand how a consultation is any farther away than his phone.

Bruce and I did everything prior to the exam by phone and email. When we had all the required letters, reports, exams, test results, etc., I hopped a plane from Florida to Illinois. He did the exam, clicked the “Submit” button, and I flew home to Florida the same day.

My word. Whining about how far away an AME is before even making a few calls? Ignoring advice from people who have already been through the process? :rolleyes:
 
I’m failing to understand how a consultation is any farther away than his phone.

Bruce and I did everything prior to the exam by phone and email. When we had all the required letters, reports, exams, test results, etc., I hopped a plane from Florida to Illinois. He did the exam, clicked the “Submit” button, and I flew home to Florida the same day.

My word. Whining about how far away an AME is before even making a few calls? Ignoring advice from people who have already been through the process? :rolleyes:
When did I say I wasnt going to be using an AME? Stop being a primadonna. I took @HardNope's advice to heart. Why is everybody trashing on me, the new guy, for following the advice of other PoA users? Do you guys have glaucoma or other vision issues which prevent reading? Might be time to hang up the headset and retire to The Villages or something. I tried to be very kind to just about everybody; there is no reason for this behavior.
 
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maybe it’s the guy who was pretending to be crashandburn and six year private student. got bored being crash
 
Lol, or maybe it's Doctor Bruce having a slow day at work and decided to have a bit of fun and troll us with the trifecta of issues - drugs , alcohol, and ADHD.
 
PoA told me to get an attorney, sir.
I took @HardNope's advice to heart. Why is everybody trashing on me, the new guy, for following the advice of other PoA users?

User, singular. One anonymous poster using guest access said get an attorney. Everybody else said to get a consult with a HIMS AME first.

Some people just seem to have to lawyer up at the first opportunity.
 
Lol, or maybe it's Doctor Bruce having a slow day at work and decided to have a bit of fun and troll us with the trifecta of issues - drugs , alcohol, and ADHD.
Worse. It's AI training on trolling all of the above. Time to turn off the main switch.
 
When did I say I wasnt going to be using an AME? Stop being a primadonna. I took @HardNope's advice to heart. Why is everybody trashing on me, the new guy, for following the advice of other PoA users? Do you guys have glaucoma or other vision issues which prevent reading? Might be time to hang up the headset and retire to The Villages or something. I tried to be very kind to just about everybody; there is no reason for this behavior.
With an attitude and demeanor like you’ve displayed in post after post, and especially this one, I don’t think a medical is going to be your biggest hurdle in being successful overall.
 
User, singular. One anonymous poster using guest access said get an attorney. Everybody else said to get a consult with a HIMS AME first.

Some people just seem to have to lawyer up at the first opportunity.
I believe at least two additional users endorsed or defended or suggested it is logical. A consultation is not 'lawyering up'. No one is entering an appearance. All I did was schedule a consultation. Advice. From someone who does this all day, not a keyboard warrior. Go cry on another thread
 
I think going to a knowledge lawyer that can recommend a good HIMS and is a great idea. Going to the wrong hims ame can be very very very bad. A lot of hims Ames are pieces of trash that see you as a piggy bank and just want to milk you for all your money.
 
I think going to a knowledge lawyer that can recommend a good HIMS and is a great idea. Going to the wrong hims ame can be very very very bad. A lot of hims Ames are pieces of trash that see you as a piggy bank and just want to milk you for all your money.
An attorney told me I need to start with mental health aviation doctors, initially some 2 day thing that will be $6000 to $8000. Then if that guy says good things, some other mental doctor that will be thousands but slightly less. That's before we even do the AME.

Lawyer said he doesn't think I have even a %50 success chance to ever get an FAA medical. He said it would be probably $40,000 in doctors and maybe if I want to use the lower an additional $15,000 or $20,000 to the lawyer. And if I see the FAA after a denial that would be more money. He said expect to pay $60,000 to $100,000 total if you go all the way and you still may fail

I guess I have to expect that sport pilot may be my only option. Not sure I will actually do sport pilot or not. Obviously if I get a denial I cannot fly sport pilot. I need to focus on buying real estate right now not financing a silly nonsense industry. If I get rich and famous then I can shower them with money. Maybe I'll be back in ~24 months. I still feel like I don't know if the people I'm talking to are the most competent ever or total bozos and/or have ulterior motives.

Once I am ~27 or ~28 years old I believe I would theoretically be too old to obtain a Marine Corps or Navy aviation contract. You can be much older than that and get a AirNG or AFR pilot contract but you typically need an FAA third class to get those as far as I know. Maybe they would settle for sport pilot
 
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I think going to a knowledge lawyer that can recommend a good HIMS and is a great idea. Going to the wrong hims ame can be very very very bad. A lot of hims Ames are pieces of trash that see you as a piggy bank and just want to milk you for all your money.

Because lawyers are famous for not wanting money.
 
An attorney told me I need to start with mental health aviation doctors, initially some 2 day thing that will be $6000 to $8000. Then if that guy says good things, some other mental doctor that will be thousands but slightly less. That's before we even do the AME.

Lawyer said he doesn't think I have even a %50 success chance to ever get an FAA medical. He said it would be probably $40,000 in doctors and maybe if I want to use the lower an additional $15,000 or $20,000 to the lawyer. And if I see the FAA after a denial that would be more money. He said expect to pay $60,000 to $100,000 total if you go all the way and you still may fail

I guess I have to expect that sport pilot may be my only option. Not sure I will actually do sport pilot or not. Obviously if I get a denial I cannot fly sport pilot. I need to focus on buying real estate right now not financing a silly nonsense industry. If I get rich and famous then I can shower them with money. Maybe I'll be back in ~24 months. I still feel like I don't know if the people I'm talking to are the most competent ever or total bozos and/or have ulterior motives.

Once I am ~27 or ~28 years old I believe I would theoretically be too old to obtain a Marine Corps or Navy aviation contract. You can be much older than that and get a AirNG or AFR pilot contract but you typically need an FAA third class to get those as far as I know. Maybe they would settle for sport pilot

Get a second opinion.

Go to the Denver AME website. Schedule a 30 minute video call with him for $200. If what he says tracks with the lawyer, then you'll know it is likely futile and you should revise your goals.

If he says different, then ask him if he can recommend a good HIMS AME closer to your location.
 
Because lawyers are famous for not wanting money.
The attorney said if I don't use him for legal purposes and instead use no lawyer, it'd save me ~$15,000 or $20,000 right off the bat.

The ~$100,000 figure is if I go all the way to fighting the FAA, which is additional legal counsel fees on top of the ~$15,000 to ~$20,000
 
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Definitely do a consult with the Denver ame. It will be over the phone so no travel needed. He is a HImS psych and a HIMS ame so he’ll be able to give you the best advice.
 
I think most of you respondents missed it. Based on the sheer size of the OP writings (rants?), his admittance of having serious mental health issues, criminal activity (although they were not felonies) capped by a concussion, I would say this was either the work of an AI test or a troll of some type.
 
Definitely do a consult with the Denver ame. It will be over the phone so no travel needed. He is a HImS psych and a HIMS ame so he’ll be able to give you the best advice.
Dr. Chuck Dennison, Ph.D. ?
 
I never admitted nor professed serious mental health issues
I think most of you respondents missed it. Based on the sheer size of the OP writings (rants?), his admittance of having serious mental health issues, criminal activity (although they were not felonies) capped by a concussion, I would say this was either the work of an AI test or a troll of some type.
 
I never admitted nor professed serious mental health issues
The DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) classifies ADHD as a serious mental disorder. Add to the mix that you said "When I was age 17,I got some very bad mental health diagnoses".
 
Being wired sucks I’m sorry that happened to you but I don’t think adhd is real you just needed more exercise to focus as a kid no need for stimulants. I remember one time I a quarter pill of 10 mg of concerta before a rugby game broke my cheekbone kept playing on it for ten minutes after that I never took that junk again. That stuff is not necessary or safe for sports or school. ADHD stimulants should be category 1 by the fda and replaced with exercise. People are just fat and lazy these days.
 
The link was posted previously:

I have a lot more to say in response, but in the interest of brevity:

  • Coincidentally, back when I spoke to the attorney that one-and-only time, the attorney suggested maybe giving up right now, but if I did go forward, he suggested seeing Dr. Dennison for $6,000 to $8,000 ish as the first step. My understanding was that the results from Dr. Dennison would largely determine whether it made sense to continue pursuing the process, including potentially after Dr. Dennison, seeing a HIMS psychiatrist at a different practice. Only after Dr. Dennison and the separate HIMS psychiatrist would I potentially move into the HIMS portion that is completely or most centered around substance-abuse, which is a somewhat separate but related issue, I get the impression. I'm unsure if that part entails going to see a additional third and maybe more unrelated type of HIMS doctor(s) and/or returning to see Dr. Dennison and/or returning to see the same HIMS psychiatrist(s).
  • The testing, as well as the complete cumulative saga, is/would-be expensive enough that I need to think carefully and/or wait and save money before proceeding.
  • I'm torn between getting answers now and waiting until I'm in a stronger financial position.
  • The attorney didn't mention anything about a Dr. Dennison consultation, but I have no objection to doing a consultation prior to dropping six to eight thousand on the actual testing. I coincidentally have to go to Colorado soon for unrelated reasons...
Thank you for the continuing good advice and guidance.

The DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) classifies ADHD as a serious mental disorder. Add to the mix that you said "When I was age 17,I got some very bad mental health diagnoses".
If you will, please allow me to place heavy emphasis on the word “admittance.” A historical diagnosis is not necessarily the same thing as admitting that the diagnosis was ever correct, nor is it necessarily evidence of current impairment. Doctors can disagree with one another, and diagnoses can change over time.

I did not intend my earlier comments to be interpreted as an admission that I presently, or even historically did I in fact truly in reality suffer from any particular condition(s). Rather, I was attempting to accurately describe diagnoses that appeared in my records when I was younger.

If someone wishes to argue that an ADHD diagnosis alone presents a significant hurdle because the FAA treats it seriously, I can understand that position. My uncertainty is less about how seriously the FAA treats the diagnosis and more about how historical diagnoses are weighed against current functioning.

I recognize the FAA may view events from adolescence differently than I do, and I can only take wild guesses as to how much weight they assign to those details.

On a lighter note, I suspect and hope that driving an SUV without a license at age 14 and in one night engaging in notably various misdemeanor activity, over a decade ago, is not considered particularly heinous in FAA terms, because that is the complete extent of my illegal criminal activity.

Thank you
 
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I have a lot more to say in response, but in the interest of brevity:

  • Coincidentally, back when I spoke to the attorney that one-and-only time, the attorney suggested maybe giving up right now, but if I did go forward, he suggested seeing Dr. Dennison for $6,000 to $8,000 ish as the first step. My understanding was that the results from Dr. Dennison would largely determine whether it made sense to continue pursuing the process, including potentially after Dr. Dennison, seeing a HIMS psychiatrist at a different practice. Only after Dr. Dennison and the separate HIMS psychiatrist would I potentially move into the HIMS portion that is completely or most centered around substance-abuse, which is a somewhat separate but related issue, I get the impression. I'm unsure if that part entails going to see a additional third and maybe more unrelated type of HIMS doctor(s) and/or returning to see Dr. Dennison and/or returning to see the same HIMS psychiatrist(s).
  • The testing, as well as the complete cumulative saga, is/would-be expensive enough that I need to think carefully and/or wait and save money before proceeding.
  • I'm torn between getting answers now and waiting until I'm in a stronger financial position.
  • The attorney didn't mention anything about a Dr. Dennison consultation, but I have no objection to doing a consultation prior to dropping six to eight thousand on the actual testing. I coincidentally have to go to Colorado soon for unrelated reasons...
Thank you for the continuing good advice and guidance.


If you will, please allow me to place heavy emphasis on the word “admittance.” A historical diagnosis is not necessarily the same thing as admitting that the diagnosis was ever correct, nor is it necessarily evidence of current impairment. Doctors can disagree with one another, and diagnoses can change over time.

I did not intend my earlier comments to be interpreted as an admission that I presently, or even historically did I in fact truly in reality suffer from any particular condition(s). Rather, I was attempting to accurately describe diagnoses that appeared in my records when I was younger.

If someone wishes to argue that an ADHD diagnosis alone presents a significant hurdle because the FAA treats it seriously, I can understand that position. My uncertainty is less about how seriously the FAA treats the diagnosis and more about how historical diagnoses are weighed against current functioning.

I recognize the FAA may view events from adolescence differently than I do, and I can only take wild guesses as to how much weight they assign to those details.

On a lighter note, I suspect and hope that driving an SUV without a license at age 14 and in one night engaging in notably various misdemeanor activity, over a decade ago, is not considered particularly heinous in FAA terms, because that is the complete extent of my illegal criminal activity.

Thank you

I'm just trying to convey what the FAA is going to put you through, and I have firsthand experience, although dated. As a child I had a serious illness but outgrew it in my late teens. Not wanting to mess around with the Feds when it came time for my first 3rd class physical and student pilot permit (early 80's), I reported everything. Even though I had been symptom free for years, the certificate was not granted and I spent the next six months submitting all kinds of paperwork and doctor notes to Oklahoma City. Eventually I was granted a Special Issuance, and in my later adult years they no longer required it. I now use Basic Med.
 
A historical diagnosis is not necessarily the same thing as admitting that the diagnosis was ever correct, nor is it necessarily evidence of current impairment. Doctors can disagree with one another, and diagnoses can change over time.

This is true, but, generally speaking, the FAA will assume that when a trained and credentialed medical professional makes a diagonsis, the diagnosis is correct. They'll rely on that assumption until some other trained and credentialed professional proves the original diagnosis to be an error or to have changed over time.
 
OP: You have got this so bass.....ackwards. Go ahead and spend 3x what is required. Get back to us after you are totally expended. A football team without a QB always loses. Spend your $$s. All the Neuropsych PhD, and the HIMS Psychiatrist are going to write is, "we recommend proven sobriety". Start with first things first. Or don't.

"You just can't help some people get out of their own way".
 
This is true, but, generally speaking, the FAA will assume that when a trained and credentialed medical professional makes a diagonsis, the diagnosis is correct. \
I'm not sure how well-trained or credentialed they were, but I'm sure they had a doctorate. If I were really savvy, I would see if they were ever disciplined by the state licensure people. That avenue has been suggested to me. Not that attacking a professional is my knee-jerk, nor my most persuasive argument.

They'll rely on that assumption until some other trained and credentialed professional proves the original diagnosis to be an error or to have changed over time.
I think "proves" may or may not be the medically correct term.

My admittedly limited understanding is that medicine, particularly psychiatry and psychology, often avoids absolute language. I suspect they more commonly write things such as "current findings do not support," "no evidence of," or "does not currently meet diagnostic criteria," rather than declaring that a prior clinician was definitively/absolutely wrong, especially if they did not ever exam/evaluate the patient until years after the original alleged diagnos(es).

Even in situations where a later evaluator strongly disagrees with an earlier diagnosis, I am not sure how often they actually say, "we know exactly what the doctor ten years ago was seeing, and we know that doctor was wrong." My impression is that they are more likely to offer a different opinion based upon a different evaluation, additional records, the passage of time, current functioning, or new evidence. I think they also try to avoid professional disagreements in general and they are rare and can actually get pretty heated. I had some of that drama, allegedly, which I have mostly avoided talking about until now. I only recently found out about it, though, due to a FOIA.

Nevertheless, I've already been through a somewhat similar process to your "proves" statement. The military required additional evaluations, and Ph.D.-level professional(s) concluded that they did not see evidence supporting prior diagnoses.

What I genuinely do NOT have a clue about is how much distinction the FAA draws between aviation-specific evaluators and conventional civilian or military mental-health professionals.

I've never been seen by any aviation medical professionals, military nor civilian, for any reason, ever. Every diagnosis, opinion, evaluation, concern, or piece of baggage that presently exists in my records originated outside the aviation-medical world.

That leaves me wondering: if a conventional civilian practitioner can create a diagnosis that follows me into the FAA medical-certification process years later, can a conventional civilian practitioner also later conclude that the diagnosis is unsupported, resolved, outdated, or otherwise not reflective of my present-day functioning? Or, for FAA purposes, does that sort of conclusion effectively need to come from an aviation-oriented specialist, HIMS evaluator, AME, neuropsychologist, or some other FAA-recognized expert? In other words, can a non-aviation doctor damn me, but only an aviation doctor can debunk it? Perhaps only a FAA aviation AME can debunk it.

I am not asking rhetorically. I genuinely do not know the answer.
 
How were the winds today at KEIK, Crash. U able to spot other traffic yet?!
 
OP: You have got this so bass.....ackwards. Go ahead and spend 3x what is required. Get back to us after you are totally expended. A football team without a QB always loses. Spend your $$s. All the Neuropsych PhD, and the HIMS Psychiatrist are going to write is, "we recommend proven sobriety". Start with first things first. Or don't.

"You just can't help some people get out of their own way".
Doctor, thank you for continuing to weigh in, I really appreciate it.

Your suggested order of operations seems meaningfully different from what the attorney outlined for me, where the idea was to start with Dr. Dennison and use that as an initial “gate” before committing to the rest of the HIMS process.

I’m not trying to decide who is right, I’m trying to understand why two knowledgeable people are prioritizing different first steps.

He also indicated none of this is strictly time-sensitive, meaning I could complete one step and pause before committing further, which helps from a financial standpoint, assuming it's true

If your approach could realistically save significant time or expense, I’d value understanding that difference.
 
I don’t think adhd is real you just needed more exercise to focus as a kid no need for stimulants.
ADHD is very real, and debilitating for many people. That said, it's horribly overdiagnosed, with many bored bright kids being medicated so they behave in class. I have no idea which the OP is.
Or, for FAA purposes, does that sort of conclusion effectively need to come from an aviation-oriented specialist, HIMS evaluator, AME, neuropsychologist, or some other FAA-recognized expert? In other words, can a non-aviation doctor damn me, but only an aviation doctor can debunk it? Perhaps only a FAA aviation AME can debunk it.
Yes. The FAA requires you to prove, at your own expense, that you don't have the condition, using their own doctors (i.e. HIMS AMEs). Yes, in many cases the FAA requirements are antiquated and unreasonable (they don't even use the latest version of the DSM), but it's their ball game and they make the rules. It's not right, but you play by their rules or you don't play, and no amount of logical argument will change that.
 
ADHD is very real, and debilitating for many people. That said, it's horribly overdiagnosed, with many bored bright kids being medicated so they behave in class. I have no idea which the OP is.

Yes. The FAA requires you to prove, at your own expense, that you don't have the condition, using their own doctors (i.e. HIMS AMEs). Yes, in many cases the FAA requirements are antiquated and unreasonable (they don't even use the latest version of the DSM), but it's their ball game and they make the rules. It's not right, but you play by their rules or you don't play, and no amount of logical argument will change that.
I wanted to say this earlier but I didn't have time. My ADHD diagnosis is way older than the rest; well over ten years ago. Allegedly medical guidelines were different, and physicians could provide large scripts of amphetamines and/or methylphenidates willy-nilly, and psychiatrists and psychologists didn't even need to be involved to make the diagnosis, allegedly; the physicians were fully at liberty to perform the whole shebang. Purportedly, authorities have since tightened that to some degree, although how much, I'm unsure. It's possible that, given current medical practices today, if I were younger and it was all taking place today, they never would've diagnosed me with ADHD, but I don't really know; I may still have been hit with that; I'm no expert. If you want to say that the ADHD diagnosis intrinsically alone is incredibly serious because the FAA says it is serious, that's fine, in fact, I would suspect you are probably correct. I suspect an old dormant and/or debunked ADHD diagnosis alone would be a pretty boilerplate process, but again, I'm no expert. Obviously, I have the quad or pent-fecta here with my laundry list of things to overcome. I only briefly took ADHD medication (Focalin, similar to Adderall) for a couple months. There was no long-term treatment. Obviously, we'll have to see what the FAA's people and their AME's have to say.

I like to think the authorities are benevolent and only doing their job. I'm no statistician or investigator, but reportedly the FAA has done a great job reducing the frequency of aviation accidents and fatalities, especially in commercial aviation. So perhaps the whole thing is pretty damn well crafted.

I genuinely don't have the money to overcome not nailing everything correctly on the first try, though. I'm tempted to temporarily table the whole thing until I know more and do additional research

I suppose maybe it's genuinely possible I have serious ADHD, but it works to my advantage in everyday life, and it doesn't require medication. I genuinely have no idea
 
The whole thread is patently absurd. Refuses to get a $200 consult with hims ame. Is told by one of the best aviation lawyers in the business it will be minimum of $20k that he doesn’t have to go thru HIMS program. ignores Dr. Bruce’s advice (far and away the most knowledgable expert in this area) and has an Adhd diagnosis and criminal record. If it’s real, which it can’t be given the responses in my opinion, do u really want to share the skies with someone with adhd and multiple criminal arrests. and yeah, the op, was 17. im sorry but i was crystal clear at 17 about the limits of my stupid behavior
 
The whole thread is patently absurd. Refuses to get a $200 consult with hims ame. Is told by one of the best aviation lawyers in the business it will be minimum of $20k that he doesn’t have to go thru HIMS program. ignores Dr. Bruce’s advice (far and away the most knowledgable expert in this area) and has an Adhd diagnosis and criminal record. If it’s real, which it can’t be given the responses in my opinion, do u really want to share the skies with someone with adhd and multiple criminal arrests. and yeah, the op, was 17. im sorry but i was crystal clear at 17 about the limits of my stupid behavior
Let's initially move into some corrections, and questions:
If Dr. Bruce's position was that I should have spoken with an AME before consulting an attorney, then I may very well have ignored that particular piece of advice. If so, that is a fair criticism. At the time, however, there were ~six-plus commenters recommending that I consult an aviation attorney, and I chose to follow that advice. Logically it seems reasonable people can disagree about whether that was the optimal decision.

What I do not understand is the claim that I am somehow ignoring Dr. Bruce's advice now, especially when his most recent comments appear to differ significantly from the attorney's suggested order of operations. I am actively trying to understand the difference between those approaches. You act as though the advice of this thread has been monolithic and I have continuously refused to listen to the clear and concise and forever-agreeably-laid-out advice of this thread. Could not be further from the truth.

Likewise, I never refused to do a $200 consultation with a HIMS AME. I contacted a HIMS AME office weeks ago and was told I needed to complete MedXPress first. Several people here advised me not to do that, and to find another AME. I also stated yesterday that I have no objection to a consultation before spending $6,000-$8,000 on testing.

As for bypassing HIMS, as far as I know, nobody has told me I can bypass HIMS, and I have never claimed otherwise. My understanding from this thread has consistently been that HIMS will be required. You just now alleged the attorney said I could avoid HIMS.... I'm editing this because I just had a lightbulb for why you may think this. the attorney said to wait and do the HIMS-substance stuff later and/or do it last at the end. He never said to avoid HIMS in general; He just said to wait on the HIMS-substance to see if the neuro/psych goes well. I'm under the impression the neuro/psych is still part of the umbrella of HIMS, but it's not the bread-and-butter HIMS drug/alcohol stuff that is somewhat maybe boilerplate? I'm no expert. Dr. Bruce ostensibly disagrees with this as far as I can tell.

You're only maybe correct about a couple small components of your comment. And another one of them is that yes, my situation, what I have had happen, what I have explained and said, and what I'm asking, is admittedly totally absurd. But your comment is both absurd and outrageous. I have never been arrested, not once, in my entire life.

As for your comments about what I should have known or done at age 17, what was your upbringing like? Did you grow up in Overtown, or Orange Mound? How can you presume to know anything about me, my circumstances, or the environment I grew up in? Not everyone's childhood, opportunities, influences, and life experiences are identical. I didn't do anything criminal at age 17. Your comment teeters on libelous/slanderous.

You ask how anyone could feel safe flying with me. How can anyone feel safe flying with you? Given your level of reading comprehension. Admittedly, there is too much to read, and that is my fault. But, you are making absolute statements about things that were either never said or are directly contradicted by the thread itself. Facts and statistics are important.

I am a young person without limitless funds, and I only started this thread about 30 days ago.
Contrary to potentially popular belief, during the past month, my sole focus has not been on being a contrarian and attempting to run amok against the genuine advice of others. I completed my bachelor's degree, remain enlisted in the military, am trying to purchase a home and establish a civilian career that actually produces money right-now, and have other obligations besides obsessing over FAA medical certification 24 hours per day. I am genuinely grateful for all the generous time spent by commenters, and I fully intend to weigh and take action on them, although regrettably my actions may stop feeling prompt or immediate, at least for a little while.

I have already spent money at the direction of people in this thread. $400 so far. I intend to continue taking steps to spend more money. I know $400 pales compared to everyone else's investments/expenditures. What I am doing is weighing cost, timing, and strategy before committing to a process that may ultimately cost tens of thousands of dollars. That is not the same thing as refusing to pursue it. Also, clearly according to commenters, there are a number of potential future mistakes I could possibly make or avoid along the way, as well as a lack of agreement between experts; All things I need to carefully tread.

Let's also not forget that about a number of people in this thread, some of whom include @Dana, @Ed Haywood, and @Half Fast, who I would like to recognize have been incredibly charitable with their time, knowledge, and opinions. Those three are among several whom advised against speaking with an attorney in the first place. Some were openly frustrated that I followed the advice of ~six-plus commenters who suggested I do immediately consult with an attorney first. Likewise, @KE5BM was among those who argued against speaking with an attorney before speaking with an AME. That was on May 10 KE5BM said that. Yet here he is liking your comment where you praise the advice of the attorney, (although you totally and completely falsified the advice of the attorney). That strikes me as somewhat inconsistent, although it does nothing to change my positive opinion of KE5BM. He has been very generous also, and he also has had a very profound and respectable career that I wish I knew more about, because it is super cool. Perhaps another example of someone I should attempt to emulate.

At one point, we were told that there were multiple barred attorneys in this thread. I certainly hope you are not one of them, for the sake of our noble legal profession. At this point, I’m asking that responses stick to what I have actually said in this thread rather than attributing positions or actions to me that are false.
 
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Let's initially move into some corrections, and questions:
If Dr. Bruce's position was that I should have spoken with an AME before consulting an attorney, then I may very well have ignored that particular piece of advice. If so, that is a fair criticism. At the time, however, there were ~six-plus commenters recommending that I consult an aviation attorney, and I chose to follow that advice. Logically it seems reasonable people can disagree about whether that was the optimal decision.

What I do not understand is the claim that I am somehow ignoring Dr. Bruce's advice now, especially when his most recent comments appear to differ significantly from the attorney's suggested order of operations. I am actively trying to understand the difference between those approaches. You act as though the advice of this thread has been monolithic and I have continuously refused to listen to the clear and concise and forever-agreeably-laid-out advice of this thread. Could not be further from the truth.

Likewise, I never refused to do a $200 consultation with a HIMS AME. I contacted a HIMS AME office weeks ago and was told I needed to complete MedXPress first. Several people here advised me not to do that, and to find another AME. I also stated yesterday that I have no objection to a consultation before spending $6,000-$8,000 on testing.

As for bypassing HIMS, as far as I know, nobody has told me I can bypass HIMS, and I have never claimed otherwise. My understanding from this thread has consistently been that HIMS will be required. You just now alleged the attorney said I could avoid HIMS....

You're only maybe correct about a couple small components of your comment. And another one of them is that yes, this is absurd. But your comment is both absurd and outrageous. I have never been arrested, not once, in my entire life.

As for your comments about what I should have known or done at age 17, what was your upbringing like? Did you grow up in Overtown, or Orange Mound? How can you presume to know anything about me, my circumstances, or the environment I grew up in? Not everyone's childhood, opportunities, influences, and life experiences are identical. I didn't do anything criminal at age 17. Your comment teeters on libelous/slanderous.

At this point, I genuinely have to respond. You ask how anyone could feel safe flying with me. How can anyone feel safe flying with you? Given your level of reading comprehension. Admittedly, there is too much to read, and that is my fault. But, you are making absolute statements about things that were either never said or are directly contradicted by the thread itself. Facts and statistics are important.

i am a young person without limitless funds, and I only started this thread about 30 days ago.
Contrary to potentially popular belief, during the past month, my sole focus has not been on being a contrarian and attempting to run amok against the genuine advice of others. I completed my bachelor's degree, remain enlisted in the military, am trying to purchase a home and establish a civilian career that actually produces money right-now, and have other obligations besides obsessing over FAA medical certification 24 hours per day. I am genuinely grateful for all the generous time spent by commenters, and I fully intend to weigh and take action on them, although regrettably my actions may stop feeling prompt or immediate, at least for a little while.

I have already spent money at the direction of people in this thread. $400 so far. I intend to continue taking steps to spend more money. I know $400 pales compared to everyone else's investments/expenditures. What I am doing is weighing cost, timing, and strategy before committing to a process that may ultimately cost tens of thousands of dollars. That is not the same thing as refusing to pursue it. Also, clearly according to commenters, there are a number of potential future mistakes I could possibly make or avoid along the way, as well as a lack of agreement between experts; All things I need to carefully tread though.

Let's also not forget that about a number of people in this thread, some of whom include @Dana, @Ed Haywood, and @Half Fast, who I would like to recognize have been incredibly charitable with their time, knowledge, and opinions. Those three are among several whom advised against speaking with an attorney in the first place. Some were openly frustrated that I followed the advice of ~six-plus commenters who suggested I do immediately consult with an attorney first. Likewise, @KE5BM was among those who argued against speaking with an attorney before speaking with an AME. That was on May 10 KE5BM said that. Yet here he is liking your comment where you praise the advice of the attorney, (although you totally and completely falsified the advice of the attorney). That strikes me as somewhat inconsistent, although it does nothing to change my positive opinion of KE5BM. He has been very generous also, and he also has had a very profound and respectable career that I wish I knew more about, because it is super cool. Perhaps another example of someone I should attempt to emulate.

At one point, we were told that there were multiple barred attorneys in this thread. I certainly hope you are not one of them, for the sake of our noble legal profession. At this point, I’m asking that responses stick to what I have actually said in this thread rather than attributing positions or actions to me that are false.

It is clear that Wellknow has no interest in helping you with your question. He is a reverse troll. He mocks people and draws them into long defensive posts, which you walked right into. Your explanations will never do anything but egg him on. Hover over his username, click "Ignore" and move on.
 
the time, however, there were ~six-plus commenters recommending that I consult an aviation attorney, and I chose to follow that advice. Logically it seems reasonable people can disagree about whether that was the optimal decision.
Since I’m stuck in an aluminum tube with nothing to do, I reread this thread. There was precisely 1 poster who said lawyer as a first step and he was a guest, not a member. EVERYONE ELSE said go to an AME consultation as a first step. I fail to see how an attorney would be able to evaluate your medical situation which would drive how difficult your path forward is.
 
Let's initially move into some corrections, and questions:
If Dr. Bruce's position was that I should have spoken with an AME before consulting an attorney, then I may very well have ignored that particular piece of advice. If so, that is a fair criticism. At the time, however, there were ~six-plus commenters recommending that I consult an aviation attorney, and I chose to follow that advice. Logically it seems reasonable people can disagree about whether that was the optimal decision.

What I do not understand is the claim that I am somehow ignoring Dr. Bruce's advice now, especially when his most recent comments appear to differ significantly from the attorney's suggested order of operations. I am actively trying to understand the difference between those approaches. You act as though the advice of this thread has been monolithic and I have continuously refused to listen to the clear and concise and forever-agreeably-laid-out advice of this thread. Could not be further from the truth.

Likewise, I never refused to do a $200 consultation with a HIMS AME. I contacted a HIMS AME office weeks ago and was told I needed to complete MedXPress first. Several people here advised me not to do that, and to find another AME. I also stated yesterday that I have no objection to a consultation before spending $6,000-$8,000 on testing.

As for bypassing HIMS, as far as I know, nobody has told me I can bypass HIMS, and I have never claimed otherwise. My understanding from this thread has consistently been that HIMS will be required. You just now alleged the attorney said I could avoid HIMS....

You're only maybe correct about a couple small components of your comment. And another one of them is that yes, this is absurd. But your comment is both absurd and outrageous. I have never been arrested, not once, in my entire life.

As for your comments about what I should have known or done at age 17, what was your upbringing like? Did you grow up in Overtown, or Orange Mound? How can you presume to know anything about me, my circumstances, or the environment I grew up in? Not everyone's childhood, opportunities, influences, and life experiences are identical. I didn't do anything criminal at age 17. Your comment teeters on libelous/slanderous.

You ask how anyone could feel safe flying with me. How can anyone feel safe flying with you? Given your level of reading comprehension. Admittedly, there is too much to read, and that is my fault. But, you are making absolute statements about things that were either never said or are directly contradicted by the thread itself. Facts and statistics are important.

i am a young person without limitless funds, and I only started this thread about 30 days ago.
Contrary to potentially popular belief, during the past month, my sole focus has not been on being a contrarian and attempting to run amok against the genuine advice of others. I completed my bachelor's degree, remain enlisted in the military, am trying to purchase a home and establish a civilian career that actually produces money right-now, and have other obligations besides obsessing over FAA medical certification 24 hours per day. I am genuinely grateful for all the generous time spent by commenters, and I fully intend to weigh and take action on them, although regrettably my actions may stop feeling prompt or immediate, at least for a little while.

I have already spent money at the direction of people in this thread. $400 so far. I intend to continue taking steps to spend more money. I know $400 pales compared to everyone else's investments/expenditures. What I am doing is weighing cost, timing, and strategy before committing to a process that may ultimately cost tens of thousands of dollars. That is not the same thing as refusing to pursue it. Also, clearly according to commenters, there are a number of potential future mistakes I could possibly make or avoid along the way, as well as a lack of agreement between experts; All things I need to carefully tread though.

Let's also not forget that about a number of people in this thread, some of whom include @Dana, @Ed Haywood, and @Half Fast, who I would like to recognize have been incredibly charitable with their time, knowledge, and opinions. Those three are among several whom advised against speaking with an attorney in the first place. Some were openly frustrated that I followed the advice of ~six-plus commenters who suggested I do immediately consult with an attorney first. Likewise, @KE5BM was among those who argued against speaking with an attorney before speaking with an AME. That was on May 10 KE5BM said that. Yet here he is liking your comment where you praise the advice of the attorney, (although you totally and completely falsified the advice of the attorney). That strikes me as somewhat inconsistent, although it does nothing to change my positive opinion of KE5BM. He has been very generous also, and he also has had a very profound and respectable career that I wish I knew more about, because it is super cool. Perhaps another example of someone I should attempt to emulate.

At one point, we were told that there were multiple barred attorneys in this thread. I certainly hope you are not one of them, for the sake of our noble legal profession. At this point, I’m asking that responses stick to what I have actually said in this thread rather than attributing positions or actions to me that are false.

This is a lot of words. I'll admit to skimming over much of it. I have one simple yes/no question. Given ALL of the information you've been given, have you met or made an appointment to meet with a 2nd HIMS AME for a consultation to get another expert opinion for a couple hundred bucks, in order to make the most informed decision on your best course of action that you can?
 
This is a lot of words. I'll admit to skimming over much of it. I have one simple yes/no question. Given ALL of the information you've been given, have you met or made an appointment to meet with a 2nd HIMS AME for a consultation to get another expert opinion for a couple hundred bucks, in order to make the most informed decision on your best course of action that you can?
No, I have not scheduled a HIMS AME consultation yet. I am currently evaluating next steps as my time allows. I would say I am about 80% confident the next step will be a consultation with a HIMS AME, though I am not anywhere near 80% certain what type of HIMS AME. I am sorting out the correct order of evaluations (HIMS AME, HIMS psychiatrist AME, HIMS neurowhatever AME, and/or related specialists) before committing time and expense. Given that different FAA-facing specialists with advanced training sometimes appear to prioritize the sequence differently.

I am considering that I may not want to come into a consultation until I have done significantly more homework and reading, and farmilarization with the jargon so I don't come in sounding like a total idiot, and therefore hopefully they would take me more seriously than otherwise
 
Since I’m stuck in an aluminum tube with nothing to do, I reread this thread. There was precisely 1 poster who said lawyer as a first step and he was a guest, not a member. EVERYONE ELSE said go to an AME consultation as a first step. I fail to see how an attorney would be able to evaluate your medical situation which would drive how difficult your path forward is.
I apologize, the guest/member nuance is a distinction I did not realize existed until right this second. I know absolutely zero about it. Is it indicated by those who have actual profile photos and those that do not have profile photos?

I could name names and provide quotes of those who advocated or said something positive about legal counsel, if you like. It's not just one person. But I'm not trying to have a cage match if nobody else wants to. What's done is done

what is truly bizarre is that @wellknow is the original person who named the law firm and suggested the firm and sang their praises, I believe I remember correctly. @Ed Haywood .
And, Mr. Haywood, I still am happy I attacked Wellknow because logically and understandably most people are not going to read the whole thread. I'm unsure what Wellknow's image is in terms of credibilitiy, but if other pillars of the community are willing to listen to him, there are ramifications for my reputation. @KE5BM is a competent person and he seemed to have been fooled or at least agreed with the sentiment. My policy is almost always defend reputation(s) vehemently. Unfortunately I suspect being a persuasive human is sometimes being he who yells the loudest and/or the hardest. Tragic. But thank you all!
 
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