Short Wing Piper Lift Struts

Rene

Rene

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Rene
Can anyone tell me the difference between the front lift strut of a PA-16, and that of a PA-20 or PA-22. Thanks.

EDIT: Skip to #14 if you just want an answer.
 
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RyanShort1 said:
I'd be asking that over on the Short Wing Piper Club forum.

ShortWingPipers.Org

ShortWingPipers.Org Discussion Forum, Pacer, Colt, Clipper, Vagabond, Tri-Pacer, PA-20, PA-22, PA-22/20
www.shortwingpipers.org www.shortwingpipers.org
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Thank you, I have. But there are more folk over here.
 
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Doc Holliday said:
Part numbers? Sealed? UnSealed? Univair? Other after market?
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Well, that is sort of the rub. I have the Pacer part numbers (original . . . or at least unsealed . . . and sealed), but I don't have a Clipper part number. (Univair is easy, add a "U" prefix. :cool: ) And my 72-year old manual doesn't offer a part number. My guess, and it is just an educated guess, is that since the geometry is the same, when Piper introduced the higher gross weight Pacer, they beefed up the front strut and discontinued the original. (The rear lift struts are the same part number(s) for all three aircraft.)

EDIT: See #14
 
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www.univair.com

16PM PIPER PA-16 PARTS MANUAL

At Univair, we’re experts at salvaging and rehabilitating classic planes with our vintage aircraft parts for sale. You can buy classic aircraft parts here!
www.univair.com www.univair.com

www.univair.com

22PM PIPER PA-22 PARTS MANUAL

At Univair, we’re experts at salvaging and rehabilitating classic planes with our vintage aircraft parts for sale. You can buy classic aircraft parts here!
www.univair.com www.univair.com
 
Rene said:
Can anyone tell me the difference between the front lift strut of a PA-16, and that of a PA-20 or PA-22.
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What specifically do you want to know? To give you more references to work with, there are several Piper bulletins that list strut P/Ns by model from J-2 and up. But as I recall the PA-16 fwd strut is a one-off when compared to the other those other struts.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
they rust....and there is an AD on them. ;)
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-002s extinguish the AD unless you drill holes in 'em. Alaska's can't rust, but the STC (that comes with the strut) only covers PA-20 and PA-22. ;)
 
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Bell206 said:
What specifically do you want to know? To give you more references to work with, there are several Piper bulletins that list strut P/Ns by model from J-2 and up. But as I recall the PA-16 fwd strut is a one-off when compared to the other those other struts.
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Thank You,

The geometry (16, 20, 22) must be the same since a part interchangeability list says a "58" (20/22) can be used in place of a "60" (16) but not vice versa. I have a 1953 manual attached to an approved 337 that calls for a "PA-16 front lift strut" but offers no part number. Since, thanks to someone's message, I now know that Univair sells a U85558-002 (for $139.66 more than a U555860-002), that seems like the easy way.

I asked here, and at SWP, after I couldn't find the PA-16 part number. But, even now knowing what to do, I was wondering what the actual difference is (construction, testing to the higher gross weight, or a smaller market share).

EDIT: See #14
 
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Univair's -002 are sealed.

I also see: 60-00, 60-000, 60-001 (PA-20 and 22), and 58-001 (PA-16), which I assume are unsealed. Alaska's are al-ooo-mini-mum, so I assume the STC that comes with 'em shows an alternate form of compliance that extinguishes the AD.
 
"There are two primary differences. The PA-16 strut has the bushings welded to the trailing edge for the aileron control cable ferrules. Tha PA-20/22 struts don’t have the trailing edge bushings as all the cables are internal to the wing. The PA-20/22 struts have an internal Z Channel that is rosette welded in place to provide additional support and resist bending of the strut due to the higher gross weight of the PA-20 and PA-22." -dgapilot over at AWP

I looked at pics of the Pacer . . . no cables. Hmmm, I wouldn't want to weld bushings on a lift strut (to use a PA-20 strut on a PA-16), but maybe that isn't a big deal.

More likely, today's lesson was "take what you read with a grain of salt".
 
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Rene said:
Univair sells a U85558-002 (for $139.66 more than a U555860-002), that seems like the easy way.
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Given the history of Piper wing struts and the ADs this would be the preferred method as it gives you a known part number. I believe you are correct on the 16 strut ferrule mounts plus I believe there was a difference in the strut mount clevis diameters. I always recommended replacing the wing struts and hardware with the latest versions and if a "heavy-duty" option is offered spend the bucks and get that one.
 
I think you got your answer in post #3

Rene said:
More likely, today's lesson was "take what you read with a grain of salt".
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I was expecting for something more along the lines of "Don't look for your car keys under the lamppost just because the light is better."

Nauga,
and more people
 
nauga said:
I think you got your answer in post #3

I was expecting for something more along the lines of "Don't look for your car keys under the lamppost just because the light is better."

Nauga,
and more people
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I guess that cutting and re-welding lift struts isn't as big of a deal as I thought it was. From looking at my (barely legible 14th generation copies of) plans the PA-15's lift struts were originally made that way.
 
I’m unsure of what you have or what you want to do but I would not

suggest welding the mounts PA-20 /22 struts. Either buy new or research

the Alaska folks. They were able to cut off the lower end and upgrade to

the heavier Clevis forks and seal them. Seems like a lot of work with

shipping but it may an option.
 
Magman said:
I’m unsure of what you have or what you want to do but I would not

suggest welding the mounts PA-20 /22 struts. Either buy new or research

the Alaska folks. They were able to cut off the lower end and upgrade to

the heavier Clevis forks and seal them. Seems like a lot of work with

shipping but it may an option.
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I was doing some grunt work for an A&P friend this morning. The plane is a clipped wing J-3 which per the conversion manual uses Clipper lift struts. So, as pretty as they may be, the Alaska aluminum front lift struts most likely don't list modified J-3s on that STC. (Although it is worth an email.) I suspect my friend knew, but was using it as a teachable moment. The interchangeability guide says I can substitute a Pacer front lift strut for a Clipper front lift strut . . . Well, yeah . . . sorta, I guess . . . you could use the heavier (but less expensive) Pacer strut with its superfluous reinforcement and weld grommets for the cable ferrules (which would eat up the savings from buying the cheaper part). But it isn't "the same" part.
 
It may be F.Atlee Dodge or Stoddard I’m thinking of.

Maybe an AMOC on strut AD?

Might be worth a call.
 
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Rene said:
The plane is a clipped wing J-3 which per the conversion manual uses Clipper lift struts.
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Given it is an altered J-3 vs a factory PA-16, it will require additional steps to substitute wing struts under the original modification data especially if done under a field approval 337. It requires a different route than if simply trying to replace parts between factory models. Clip wing mods are a separate animal in the big picture.
 
Bell206 said:
Given it is an altered J-3 vs a factory PA-16, it will require additional steps to substitute wing struts under the original modification data especially if done under a field approval 337. It requires a different route than if simply trying to replace parts between factory models. Clip wing mods are a separate animal in the big picture.
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Thank you,

I think that is part of Will's lesson for me. All of the details that go into making the paperwork legal. The easy answer is to obtain the 58-002 PA-16 struts (which for whatever reason I couldn't locate this morning). Those are the sealed successors to the (presumably unsealed) ones listed by nomenclature only in the 1953 conversion manual. I know there is a pathway to have substitutes for unobtainium approved, but in this case 58-002s were merely hiding from the noob parts chaser and not truly unobtainable.
 
But you've done well investigating the jungle of possibilities. Gaining aviation experience around issues outside the cockpit is valuable.
 
Rene said:
Those are the sealed successors to the (presumably unsealed) ones listed by nomenclature only in the 1953 conversion manual.
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One thing to keep in mind under what approval method the clip-wing mod was done on the J-3. While its possible to alter a previous modification under Part 43, not all can use the same route. So even though you have one document showing the Univair replacement strut will fit a PA-16 its not a slam dunk in all cases you can use that same strut on your clipped J-3 without a revision to that original approval data. If that makes sense to you.
 
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