Sharing costs.

Palmpilot said:
The CC has opined that flight time has value, but something of value is not compensation unless it is provided to the recipient in exchange for some service that the "payer" wanted performed. In the scenario Tom described, no mention was made of the owner needing someone else to fly the plane for him, so the flight time is not compensation, it's a gift.
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MacPherson said otherwise.
 
Tom-D said:
Don't make more of this than it is. these are simply two good-ol boys sharing the afternoon flying and sharing the costs.
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THIS! :yes:

finally someone gets it :rofl:
 
EdFred said:
MacPherson said otherwise.
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She never said that something of value given with no expectation of services being provided in return was compensation.
 
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Palmpilot said:
She never said that something of value given with no expectation of services being provided in return was compensation.
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Free or reduced flight time was considered compensation if logged regardless of quid pro quo. She also stated that if more than one person was in the aircraft, reimbursement was considered compensation.

Put all the pieces together from 3-4 different CC rulings, and yeah, you're breaking the regs.
 
EdFred said:
Free or reduced flight time was considered compensation if logged regardless of quid pro quo.
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In which interpretation did she say it was regardless of quid pro quo?

If quid pro quo were not a necessary element for it to be considered compensation, then every Christmas gift would be compensation.

She also stated that if more than one person was in the aircraft, reimbursement was considered compensation.
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Only if the expense-sharing exception doesn't apply, but I thought we were discussing a scenario where there was no reimbursement.

Put all the pieces together from 3-4 different CC rulings, and yeah, you're breaking the regs.
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I think you're putting the pieces together incorrectly.
 
Norman said:
But there seems to be plenty of fish in this pond. :D
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I don't think we would be participating in this thread if we were not at least getting some enjoyment out of it. :)

I'm pretty sure we're not going to be put in a frying pan and eaten!
 
JoeSelch said:
Tom, if you didn't want to make more of this, then why the heck did you ask?!


Oh. I forgot. Tom's questions are always trolls...
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You still don't get it,, that's the funny part.
 
EdFred said:
Free or reduced flight time was considered compensation if logged regardless of quid pro quo. She also stated that if more than one person was in the aircraft, reimbursement was considered compensation.

Put all the pieces together from 3-4 different CC rulings, and yeah, you're breaking the regs.
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Compensation matters if the flight is carrying passengers our property for compensation or hire.
 
Lindberg said:
Compensation matters if the flight is carrying passengers our property for compensation or hire.
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And the CC has a royally screwed up definition of what constitutes compensation or hire. But you can also receive compensation even if you don't according to them.

For example, if I ferry your plane for free (even if we've been friends for years) - and you pick up the fuel, and I log the time, that's considered compensation.
 
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1. Comply with the rules as clearly stated in 61.113.
2. What are these rulings? I'm not a lawyer and it's unreasonable for me to understand this stuff.
3. Don't ask about compensation, don't talk about compensation
4. Stick to untraceable things like cash, food, liquor, and sexual favors.
5. Don't talk about it, don't write it down, don't hint at it, use condoms.
 
EdFred said:
Then what is your point of such threads?
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It starts as a simple question, who turned the corner with it? Me? no. but when you have the name why not have the game?
 
EdFred said:
And the CC has a royally screwed up definition of what constitutes compensation or hire. But you can also receive compensation even if you don't according to them.

For example, if I ferry your plane for free (even if we've been friends for years) - and you pick up the fuel, and I log the time, that's considered compensation.
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On that example, I agree, because the logged flight hours are being considered to be compensation for ferry pilot services.
 
Palmpilot said:
On that example, I agree, because the logged flight hours are being considered to be compensation for ferry pilot services.
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I'm not holding out, I'm not advertising, I'm doing a favor for a friend.

Now, if I'm advertising, "I will ferry your plane for free," then I agree. Better call the feds because I've ferried my dad's airplane on more than one occasion while only holding a 3rd class medical. Yes, I logged the time.

Or, you better call the FBO that gave me a ride back to my airport when I dropped off my plane for maintenance - oh yeah, and it was on an instructional flight for a student. Or...

Like I said, the Feds have a royally screwed up definition of compensation.
 
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EdFred said:
I'm not holding out, I'm not advertising, I'm doing a favor for a friend.

Now, if I'm advertising, "I will ferry your plane for free," then I agree. Better call the feds because I've ferried my dad's airplane on more than one occasion while only holding a 3rd class medical. Yes, I logged the time.
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Just to clarify, I'm not saying I agree with the CC's interpretation; I'm saying I agree that that is the CC's interpretation.
 
Palmpilot said:
Just to clarify, I'm not saying I agree with the CC's interpretation; I'm saying I agree that that is the CC's interpretation.
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And I'm saying they have a ****ed up definition of compensation. They've basically made it so any private pilot flying anyone could be busted even if they pick up all the costs. (Goodwill for future hypothetical possible business, etc)

I'm actually surprised they let non-commercial safety pilots log PIC - since you are providing services (required crew member) for compensation (flight time)
 
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EdFred said:
And I'm saying they have a ****ed up definition of compensation. They've basically made it so any private pilot flying anyone could be busted even if they pick up all the costs. (Goodwill for future hypothetical possible business, etc)

I'm actually surprised they let non-commercial safety pilots log PIC - since you are providing services (required crew member) for compensation (flight time)
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Next question....

What good is a rule when you can't enforce it? the only time this rule is ever enforced is when a PAX complained.
 
Tom-D said:
Next question....

What good is a rule when you can't enforce it? the only time this rule is ever enforced is when a PAX complained.
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Or if another operator/commercial pilot/ferry pilot/FBO complains...
 
What is the likelyhood that something like this would get caught without an accident? I can't imagine the Feds hideout in the bushes waiting to bust people.
 
Flymeariver said:
What is the likelyhood that something like this would get caught without an accident? I can't imagine the Feds hideout in the bushes waiting to bust people.
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The pilot enters the FBO to pay his fuel bill and the PAX has already paid the bill and is running their mouth about how cheap the flight was.
 
Tom-D said:
How would they know, if a PAX didn't complain ??
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In my case I was dropped off in a rental Warrior. Say a 135 happened to be at my field at the time. They pull the tail number on the Warrior, see it's registered to a flight school, and also see they don't have a 135 certificate. They whine to the FSDO on an illegal charter operation. Which technically, it was.
 
EdFred said:
...I'm actually surprised they let non-commercial safety pilots log PIC - since you are providing services (required crew member) for compensation (flight time)
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Don't tell them!!! :eek:
 
Tom-D said:
The pilot enters the FBO to pay his fuel bill and the PAX has already paid the bill and is running their mouth about how cheap the flight was.
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I thought we were talking about general aviation. :rofl:
 
Palmpilot said:
Don't tell them!!! :eek:
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Certain days I feel like writing them just to be an *******. It's one thing to **** off a few people at once, it takes talent to **** off thousands at once. :D
 
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