Seriously Apple, slowing down older iphones?

Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by Sac Arrow, Dec 21, 2017.

  1. Sac Arrow

    Sac Arrow Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Does anyone buy that Apple is degrading the performance of older phones because of battery life? I think they have just killed their reputation.
     
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  2. Matthew

    Matthew Touchdown! Greaser!

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    if they don't have a user selectable on/off switch in the settings, well, I'm suspicious.

    I always figured there should be something similar to the Hippocratic oath for upgrades, "First, do no harm."
     
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  3. Radar Contact

    Radar Contact Cleared for Takeoff

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    I don't think they care. I think they have some really smart people that have figured out that the number of new phones sold to people due to the slowing will outweigh the number of people turned off by them and going else where.
     
  4. Ryanb

    Ryanb Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    I’ve suspected it for awhile. Always a series of updates released after a new iPhone is launched and then all of a sudden, my ‘like-new’ iPhone doesn’t perform the same way it did when I first got it..hmm. They can say they do it to help with the battery, but anyone should be able to see through their ulterior motives.
     
  5. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Is this about a news story, or your own suspicions, or ?
     
  6. Direct C51

    Direct C51 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    This isn't the first time this has happened. Burn me once, shame on you, burn me twice... I've since learned to never update my iPhone right away. I wait until I've heard the buzz a few days later. My 6 is still fast as ever.

    That being said, I'll probably get a google pixel next. I'm over this sealed battery scheme and slowdowns after an update.
     
  7. Axtel4

    Axtel4 Pre-takeoff checklist

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  8. wilkersk

    wilkersk Line Up and Wait

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    Why would you not think their explanation plausible?

    Considering the rapid evolution of iPhone and battery technology and the average consumer's iPhone charging and rebooting habits, plus our low tolerance for uncontrolled shut-downs, I think its a reasonable explanation.

    Given that, I think its also conceivable that they might possibly be "framing the pitch" just a little, in an effort to generate more sales.
     
  9. Norman

    Norman En-Route Gone West

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    I'm still the owner of a Motorola flip phone and have no need to buy something Apple has control over. Learned about that kind of sh*t from Garmin and their aviation products. They have new junk to sell so they degrade the stuff you paid good money for so they can [sort of] force you into buying newer stuff that will soon become [in their opinion] junk. That business model sucks for the end user but makes sense from the seller's point of view.

    Buy it Monday, install it Wednesday, Friday it becomes obsolete. It's only good for the manufacturer's bottom line. End user be damned.

    Yep, I took my "old grouch pill" this morning. :devil:
     
  10. RJM62

    RJM62 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Google Pixel batteries aren't removable. At least the new ones, anyway. Right now, I believe the highest-end phone you can buy with a removable battery is the LG V20. (The V30 does away with it.)

    I personally won't buy a phone that doesn't have either a removable battery or one that I can replace myself with a minimum of fuss. I think it's ridiculous to spend a fortune on an appliance with a degrading component that can't be replaced. If that means the phone isn't waterproof, so be it.

    I'm hoping that LG sees the folly of their ways when they start losing market share. Perhaps they'll realize that a high percentage of their customers bought LG phone largely because of the removable batteries. Take that away, and there are better phones available from other manufacturers, at lower cost.

    Rich
     
  11. Direct C51

    Direct C51 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    You are correct Rich. I misremembered. It appears the pixel 2s are non-removable. It looks like planned obsolescence via battery is the way everyone is going.
     
  12. olasek

    olasek Pattern Altitude

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    Sorry, I don't believe these conspiracies. I happen to have Iphone 5 which works just fine for me, I haven't seen any software update for a very long time, I guess my hardware is old enough no more update will be forthcoming which is fine too. I just pressed "software update" and got reply that my iOS 10.3.3 is up to date. I see no compelling reason to switch to something newer, very happy with an "old" Apple phone.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2017
  13. Lachlan

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    It’s funny when Apple says they’re slowing down older phones intentionally and people call *THAT* a conspiracy. ;)
     
  14. Fearless Tower

    Fearless Tower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Do you actually realize what you just said?


    10.3.3 is ‘up to date’ on your phone?

    IOW, your phone is so old Apple isnt slowing it down.....they are no longer bothering with updates for it....
     
  15. James331

    James331 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    You mean does the same company that sells $1,000.00 phones without a user replaceable battery, that even incorporates odd ball Apple proprietary screws to try to prevent users from being able to fix their own phones, does that company put bloat ware in their new software to try to force a upgrade???

    I'd be more surprised if they didn't.
     
  16. rtk11

    rtk11 Line Up and Wait

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    I'd share my thoughts, but my Iphone 6 is so laggy, it took me 30 minutes to write this...
     
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  17. olasek

    olasek Pattern Altitude

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    And that's just perfect, that's the whole point. If you guys have some urge to keep upgrading, be my guest and continue to bitch and moan, you are making companies rich.
     
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  18. GRG55

    GRG55 En-Route

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    There's enough conspiracy theorists out there dealing with the Kennedy family that I feel no need to believe any of the others. Every friggin computer I own slows down with age. That pattern goes back a long way with Microsoft. Why would anyone think a palm sized Apple computer would be any different.

    After numerous avoidances I stupidly initiated a Microsoft Windows 10 update on my office computer this morning. That was a good 45 minutes of time lost NOT including the call to IT this afternoon to come and fix all the network issues, such as my scanner no longer working, that resulted from that first dumb decision.
     
  19. Fearless Tower

    Fearless Tower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Has nothing to do with an urge to upgrade.

    I simply expect that when I buy a phone that sells for over $500, I should be able to use it for more than 12 months without being intentionally degraded by the manufacturer.

    I’m not about to buy the crappy and more expensive new phones. I just want my 14 month old phone to work as well as it did 2 months ago.
     
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  20. John221us

    John221us En-Route

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    I have been using iPhones and iPads exclusively for ateast 7 years and had iPods for at least 5 years before that. This is pretty sleazy. It should have been disclosed and user selectable if they were going to do something like that. This might be enough to get me to reconsider platforms.
     
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  21. azblackbird

    azblackbird Cleared for Takeoff

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    Still using iPhone 4 with 6.1.3 OS. Battery still lasts me all day. I'll buy a new one when I can't listen to my XM radio. Until that time happens, I'm good to go with what I have. :yesnod:
     
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  22. exncsurfer

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    I'd rather have my phone run full speed till the battery dies. Its just a sorry excuse for customer abuse.
     
  23. John221us

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    Completely different. Windows 10 actually runs faster on the same hardware than Windows 8. I am not sure what your issue with the upgrade was. This Apple disclosure appears to be a hardware vendor, using software to intentionally degrade older hardware. Not a conspiracy. They admitted it. Yes, software and OS’s bloat over time and hardware ages, but Win 8 and Win 10 actually did not contribute to that. Other apps certainly did/do, though there seems to be a trend away from that as well with with thinner web based apps and such. I personally upgrade my computers and iDevices regularly, but I find this behavior morally lacking.
     
  24. Sac Arrow

    Sac Arrow Touchdown! Greaser!

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    This (above I'm quoting) is a man I seriously trust on the issue. I have always loved Apple, but, well, I hope I'm wrong. We will just have to see. I won't rush to judgement, I would like to see their response
     
  25. John221us

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    I hope there is a better explanation. I guess we should wait and see.
     
  26. rpadula

    rpadula En-Route

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    Move along, nothing to see here. Since devices don't have infinite power and resources, engineering trade offs have to be made.

    While it is true Apple doesn't offer iOS 11 for @olasek 's iPhone 5, the software feature was enabled in iOS 10.2.1 for 6, 6s, and SE models. The iphone 7 gets it in 11.2. (Source)

    This is simply not possible. Well, unless you put the phone on the charger and then don't use it. Batteries degrade over time, temperature, and charge/discharge cycles. Battery engineers (and I work with one) do their best to stave this off for as long as possible. But the physics of it are inevitable.

    Did you know flash memory doesn't retain its contents forever either? The charge held in the cells also degrades based on voltage, erase/write time & cycles. Engineers make trade offs between access speed (write a weaker charge) and data retention (write a stronger charge).

    P.S. Mechanical hard drives get slower the more you fill them with data (the bits are heavy and slow the platters down), so they don't work as well as when you first buy them either. ;)
     
  27. exncsurfer

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    I guess its easier to put out a software update to slow down the phone than to build it with more easily replaceable batteries.
     
  28. wilkersk

    wilkersk Line Up and Wait

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    The way I understand it, as the battery degrades, it is no longer capable of providing enough power to run the processor as designed . The slowdown is to allow the phone to continue to operate,
    rather than just shutting down when the processor errors out due to a low power state.
     
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  29. exncsurfer

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    new battery? vs. forced downgrade? downgrade the whole line regardless of battery performance?
     
  30. Everskyward

    Everskyward Administrator Management Council Member

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    My 6S is still fast. At least I don't notice any difference from when it was new. I could get a new battery free because it is one of the serial numbers that falls under the battery warranty. I have another year to decide. My Mini 2, on the other hand...
     
  31. John221us

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    Sorry, I don’t like the whole we got caught, here is our explanation thing. The behavior of a failing lithium battery is well known. They should give people a choice on how to deal with it and more importantly, disclose it. As far as replacing the battery, yeah, that should be an option, even if it the option is not a self service option.
     
  32. wilkersk

    wilkersk Line Up and Wait

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    Note the date on this article (and the content): https://www.forbes.com/sites/antony...o-replace-the-iphone-6s-battery/#50a6f26270cc
     
  33. John221us

    John221us En-Route

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    Ok, and it talks about the limitations of lithium batteries, but certainly doesn’t address Apples undisclosed “fix”. I have been a dedicated iPhone and IPad user. I am feeling a little deceived. As I mentioned above, I upgrade pretty regularly, but I want to make my own choices, not because Apple artificially degrades performance. I get the risk of a shutdown, but this is a choice they should have disclosed.
     
  34. Hawker800

    Hawker800 Line Up and Wait

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  35. RJM62

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    Then make the damned batteries replaceable. Simple solution. Maybe use some high-tech innovation like a screw and a silicone gasket if an old-fashioned battery door is just too aesthetically painful. Don't glue the damned things shut if you know it's something that degrades. That's just planned obsolescence as far as I'm concerned.

    Rich
     
  36. Matthew

    Matthew Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I'm not clear - Apple says they do this to preserve battery life on older systems:

    Does the down-throttling occur when the new OS senses the battery charge is getting low? When it senses excessive drain due to battery age and degradation? Or when it senses an older model that may or may not have had a battery replacement?

    The first two: Good ideas, and allowing the user/owner to select full-speed vs extra battery life would be nice. The last one: Well, that one sucks.
     
  37. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    LOL. Same here.

    The real trade off is Apple used to replace phones with poorly functioning batteries with refurbs, even long after AppleCare for a severe discount. This appears to be meddling to make sure the battery issue isn’t nearly as easy to see, like phones shutting down showing “30% remaining”.

    Covering up the problem and slowing the phone is a way to say, “See? It still has eight hours of battery life. It doesn’t meet the criteria.”

    They’re just getting greedy. Cook has no ideas, the brain trust left for Google and other greener pastures, and innovation is dead there. A few die hards are still there going, “Well I guess we could do yet another Unix filesystem...” for lack of vision and direction.

    Cook is John Scully all over again. Wall Street loves him for a little while, customers are unimpressed and move on once they realize the feature set is lacking, and then the Board is desperate for the founder to come back, but he’s dead this time. Woz isn’t going to do it.

    No vision. They’ll coast for a long time on their last real innovations but not forever. Late to wireless charging, late to a dock to turn the device into a desktop, late to OLED screens, late to glass cases (although that’s a backward step for something already as fragile as a mobile phone), did the stylus but only on the top of the line tablet and not the phones and charged big money for it, late to true multitasking and split screen...

    ... and their biggest competitor has leaks out on not one, but two better devices than their flagship.

    Their best hope was to make their OS better and faster. They went completely the opposite direction. This is not how you “wow” people into remaining customers for life.

    Samsung royally screwed up the battery thing on Note 7 but they made incredible deals on buying the next fixed gen device with more features to everyone who turned one in.

    As far as the experience goes, a device that was once responsive is now slow and buggy if you were an early player in the “plus” sizes. 6 Plus is a horrid experience right now. Even typing is laggy. Let alone switching apps. This is a device that was only discontinued in September of last year and was still for sale until then.

    There are users who bought these NEW only one year and three months ago, and iOS 11 utterly craps them out.

    Very bad business at Apple these days. Awful in fact. They’re in full panic mode scrambling so hard to stay ahead of Samsung that they’re willing to crap on devices less than two years old.

    iTunes, once the industry leader in freeing music by the song from the record labels? Done for. Streaming for the kids, and better music systems for those who collect files now. Horrid and buggy for many years.

    iPhone, being surpassed by multiple competitors. App quality is the only thing saving it. Sure isn’t the built in “Mail” app. Or mobile Safari. LOL.

    iPad. Again, some apps and disjointed android tablet market.

    Mac desktops? High Sierra is literally nothing. It shouldn’t have even gotten a new name. LOL. Sealed all the machines up tight again in 2011 and no user upgrades. And a $5000 “Pro” desktop? Seriously? LOL. They’re doing this crap again? Wasn’t once enough for this mistake?

    And headphone deals? Really? AirBuds or whatever?

    They better hope they have a really really big announcement up their sleeves soon, because this is all stuff a company who’s run out of ideas acts like in tech. Competitors used to chase Apple. Now Apple is chasing them. Not good.
     
  38. azblackbird

    azblackbird Cleared for Takeoff

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    Are the new iPhone batteries non-replacable?

    When my iPhone 4 battery takes a crap, there are plenty of 3rd party battery vendors that sell replacement batteries/kits for $15. It doesn't look any harder switching out a battery in an iPhone, than it is in a laptop. Almost the same tools.
     
  39. cowman

    cowman En-Route

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    They won’t make a user replaceable battery because of their design philosophy. There’d be a seam, they wouldn’t be able to make it “thinner and lighter” and boast about in their next release. Oh and they’d have to add a release/latch somewhere.

    Apple wants the iPhone to be a sealed monolithic brick with no ports of any kind but they had to put in a couple buttons and a charge port.... for now.
     
  40. Fearless Tower

    Fearless Tower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    What I know is that my 1 year old phone became a piece of crap overnight as soon as I updated to iOS 11 and each ‘whack a mole’ update that Apple has pushed since then hasn’t helped.

    All those details aside, why are you trying to explain other causes when Apple has come out and admitted they intentionally slowed down older phones with the updates!

    How’s that Kool-Aid taste!
     
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