Seller: Pre-Buy MUST be done at home base

Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by machkhatib, Mar 10, 2022.

  1. RussR

    RussR En-Route

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    That was my first impression too, but after more thought I'm not as hard over on it.

    Some people just aren't as good at telling others what they think when it may be considered insulting. The seller here may have wanted to just say "no, you can't take it to another airport because if you do and something happens where I can't get it back to my airport, you may not only bail out of the deal but also stiff me for any costs incurred that should be your responsibility."

    That's perfectly reasonable IMO.

    But some may find it hard to say that to someone, so they try to think of other reasons that seem cut-and-dry like "I don't have a medical" or "liability" or whatever. But then the OP annoyingly keeps coming up with solutions to those... :D So, not NECESSARILY malicious intent. Could still be, of course.
     
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  2. schmookeeg

    schmookeeg En-Route

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    I swear some sellers think that a prebuy involves de-riveting an aircraft then re-riveting it back together. As opposed to pulling some panels, looking around for corrosion or shoddy repair history, looking over the logbooks, and borescoping the jugs
     
  3. machkhatib

    machkhatib Pre-Flight

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    Update: I finally found a mechanic who will do the pre-buy at KSIF next week (the mechanic from Air Harbor).
     
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  4. mandm

    mandm Line Up and Wait

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    How can a mechanic do a prebuy without having his tools and a warm comfortable space to work in? I mean it doesn’t sound good to me….

    People keep telling you to bring your mechanic and I understand why. The guy doing the prebuy, even if he signs off on an annual, signing off on an annual is more like just signing off on something to get it out of your shop, I think. The plane still has issues. And one mechanic to the next will want certain things done, probably almost a negotiation. And everyone who fixes stuff will tell you the other person did it wrong, just an American thing lol. I’m thinking about flying my plane back to the prebuy mechanic to have him do the annual next year, just because he is familiar with the work done and he did the work himself.
     
  5. Dan Thomas

    Dan Thomas Final Approach

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    Nope. Not exclusive to Americans. There are a few ways to do something right, sometimes only one way, and many ways to do things wrong.

    That would save a bunch of time, especially if the mechanic made and kept a list of the stuff he didn't like.
     
  6. mandm

    mandm Line Up and Wait

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    I’m thinking about messaging him to ask him how much time he thinks it would take so I can plan a trip out there. Hoping a couple days at most.
     
  7. Lindberg

    Lindberg Final Approach

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    You could replace pre-buy in that sentence with anything and it would still be true.
     
  8. RussR

    RussR En-Route

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    There are many mobile mechanics who work out of their truck or van and come to your hangar to do annual inspections and all kinds of maintenance. It’s pretty routine.
     
  9. Lindberg

    Lindberg Final Approach

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    You don't need many tools to open inspection panels. My A&P did the prebuy on my plane 300 miles from home. We flew down in his plane with a small bag of tools, he borrowed compressed air from the seller for the compression test and that was it.
     
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  10. strangebird

    strangebird Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I agree, I never let any one fly an airplane I own, I will take them for a quick ride after the prebuy is done only, then I need to have a big deposit.I do not give free rides

    I can not blame he seller, he is not a clown as someone else said, he is protecting his asset and his butt, I also do not let any mechanic I do not know wrench on my planes,. case in point, one guy brought his mechanic ok, take a look, then proceeded to cross thread a spark thread and screwed that up, another mechanic that I took a 177G to for the buyer, knocked the plane off the jacks when doing a gear retraction and in both cases I got the shaft, the buyers walked, and left me holding the bag, now who is the clown as some one inferred about the seller. He is just being careful, and why not use the guys mechanic, most prebuys are a joke anyway, unless some thing is very visible. and even then they get missed.
     
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  11. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

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    I’m referring to an airplane that can’t move and might have a serious structural problem. The whole not moving the aircraft is no big deal in and of itself.
     
  12. samiamPA

    samiamPA Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I'm wondering if all the people who are saying to "run away" from this "dodgy" situation have ever actually sold a plane.

    For every legitimate buyer you have to wade through at least ten hopefuls and tire kickers. I've had so many people who were "definitely" going to come buy my airplane this weekend.

    No way I'd let someone fly my plane away and take it apart, especially for a straightforward airframe like a Cherokee.
     
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  13. Magman

    Magman Line Up and Wait

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    Another factor is whether the fbo will allow “outside mechanics” to use the facilities. The may be enforced via insurance requirements.

    “ Warm comfortable space”? Last 2 I’ve done the hangar floor looked like a hockey rink!
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2022
  14. Ventucky Red

    Ventucky Red Pattern Altitude

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    Did the mechanic that did the annual offer anything about the plane?
     
  15. machkhatib

    machkhatib Pre-Flight

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    He said it was clean and he couldn’t think of any issues, but he also volunteered he wasn’t impartial.
     
  16. Salty

    Salty Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Such nonsense would require armed enforcement to get me to comply. I certainly wouldn't comply voluntarily. It's an inspection for crying out loud.
     
  17. Magman

    Magman Line Up and Wait

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    We all seem to think of airports similar to the one we are most familiar with.

    Surprise! They are all different.

    Some require the tenant to be present continuously when a Tech is working on their aircraft.

    Others with airline service require the tenant to have TSA training yearly. Not more than 5 guests at gatherings . The entire gang must stay together for trips to the rest rooms. Your car ( one) must be registered. Guest cars are restricted if going to hangars.

    If you wish to do any maintenance ( PB or disassemble wreck) you must produce a insurance policy with the airport as additional insured.

    Some airport wiring is so crappy that plugging even a small compressor in will blow the main breaker. Which is located in the Office. Someone will be In Monday.

    If you have few restrictions consider yourself lucky.
     
  18. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Well, if you follow these forums long enough, you will find some tales of woe where pre buy mechanics went overboard and sellers were left with disassembled planes after a buyer walked and the mechanic simply stopped work 1/2 way through when neither party wanted to pay for the proposed refurb to new condition.
     
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  19. Rgbeard

    Rgbeard En-Route

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    I am under no illusion that a pre-by inspection would include deriveting the skin from the wings.

    But, as an example, I do insist that spark plugs are hand-threaded to begin them, and try to assure that a high degree of care is given at every stage of maintenance with the aircraft, because a slip up can be expensive, and or ground the aircraft, particularly with the supply chain issues right now.

    Being an A/P doesn’t guarantee care. Although it should.

    if some ham-fisted mechanic that I don’t know from Adam, came along and cross threaded the plugs in my cylinder I would be at the very least extremely upset.

    this is a minor example of the types of things that can go wrong, in simple day-to-day maintenance, that at the surface has no risk attached to it.

    there are many more significant examples out there.
     
  20. Magman

    Magman Line Up and Wait

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    Every PB Survey seems yo start with; “How much for a PB?” When I reply; “What is it you want done ?” the Buyer often appears unprepared for this response.

    My take is once the Buyer has an idea of the type of aircraft desired they should contact the person that will be doing their maintenance. Initially it may be a quick cup of coffee or beer but at some point there should be a in-depth consultation. This should include the plan for the Tech to review Records and what are significant items to check during the PB. Yes; there should be some $$ put on the table at this time. Plans for the scope of the PB and estimate of hours required may be determined by the Tech. The Buyer is now prepared to talk sense to whoever will do the PB.

    Most aircraft have at least one AD that can be a show stopper. One of these is Lycoming AD 98-02-08 (?). If it still requires a Recurrent Inspection the Buyer is foolish not to include this in the PB. Since replacing the Crank usually includes a MOH I consider this a ticking time bomb of repairs that can exceed the value of the aircraft.