Seeing and avoiding...

[cowman]

This has bugged me since I started venturing outside of my airport's controlled airspace as a student pilot...

Even in the controlled environment of a class D airport while in the pattern and hearing on the radio exactly where to look for traffic those little airplanes are hard to pick out... even the big ones take a while to find and that's when I know almost exactly where in the sky they are supposed to be.

But then when venturing outside of that bubble within 3000'agl they could be anywhere. They could be on a collision course at your altitude. I've seen a few come close. I've been at uncontrolled fields talking to one other aircraft in the pattern with me and seen somebody without a radio swoop in ahead of both of us.... and I've admittedly messed up at uncontrolled fields before by not realizing I'm on the downwind for a different runway than I announced on the radio until flying by the numbers.

But in the pattern we're looking and expecting this stuff to some extent... en route I've had aircraft uncomfortably close to my altitude go shooting by within 1/4 mile or so. I kept thinking in those situations that if they'd really been on a collision course I don't know if I'd have seen it, recognized what was happening, and reacted fast enough.

I've tried to mitigate this.... if I can't get above 3000 agl due to ceilings which has happened a lot lately I try to fly at altitudes like 2250 or 2750... and so on instead of the 500s in hopes less traffic will be there. I get flight following, when going near a field I tune my com2 to that field's CTAF or tower and listen. I invested in a PCAS... which in my experience isn't much help most of the time.

But still none of that guarantees a thing. We're supposed to look out the window... slowly scanning the sky and I do that too but does it really work when 2 little airplanes are closing at a combined 300mph? I dunno.... Are we in reality actually just relying on the fact that the sky is very big and we're very small so the odds of 2 aircraft trying to occupy the same space at the same time is pretty low? I know midair collision are a rare thing... but still it bothers me.

 

[write-stuff]

Takes practice, but becomes somewhat easy. Anything over a mile away, especially if below the horizon, is a lost cause. But keep at it and you'll get better. One thing that will help others see you at uncontrolled airports is to include your altitude in your position reports (not in the pattern). "Cessna 12345 is five miles south at 2800, inbound for runway 25."

 

[CTLSi]

This has bugged me since I started venturing outside of my airport's controlled airspace as a student pilot...

Even in the controlled environment of a class D airport while in the pattern and hearing on the radio exactly where to look for traffic those little airplanes are hard to pick out... even the big ones take a while to find and that's when I know almost exactly where in the sky they are supposed to be.

But then when venturing outside of that bubble within 3000'agl they could be anywhere. They could be on a collision course at your altitude. I've seen a few come close. I've been at uncontrolled fields talking to one other aircraft in the pattern with me and seen somebody without a radio swoop in ahead of both of us.... and I've admittedly messed up at uncontrolled fields before by not realizing I'm on the downwind for a different runway than I announced on the radio until flying by the numbers.

But in the pattern we're looking and expecting this stuff to some extent... en route I've had aircraft uncomfortably close to my altitude go shooting by within 1/4 mile or so. I kept thinking in those situations that if they'd really been on a collision course I don't know if I'd have seen it, recognized what was happening, and reacted fast enough.

I've tried to mitigate this.... if I can't get above 3000 agl due to ceilings which has happened a lot lately I try to fly at altitudes like 2250 or 2750... and so on instead of the 500s in hopes less traffic will be there. I get flight following, when going near a field I tune my com2 to that field's CTAF or tower and listen. I invested in a PCAS... which in my experience isn't much help most of the time.

But still none of that guarantees a thing. We're supposed to look out the window... slowly scanning the sky and I do that too but does it really work when 2 little airplanes are closing at a combined 300mph? I dunno.... Are we in reality actually just relying on the fact that the sky is very big and we're very small so the odds of 2 aircraft trying to occupy the same space at the same time is pretty low? I know midair collision are a rare thing... but still it bothers me.

Now add guys without radios, and drones to your worry bag and you start to get the picture.

 

[1600vw]

After some repairs on my engine I was out taxiing doing some run ups. I notice the TAS going off telling me of traffic. It was at Pattern height at one end of the runway.

I have learned that there will always be those who cut right through non towered airfields at pattern height.

After having this happen to me more times then I can count on both hands I installed a TAS.

Now I see the traffic coming from 5 nm out. I will always fly using one of these. They cost alot but worth every penny. Sometimes you can find a deal on them.

Tony

 

[1600vw]

Takes practice, but becomes somewhat easy. Anything over a mile away, especially if below the horizon, is a lost cause. But keep at it and you'll get better. One thing that will help others see you at uncontrolled airports is to include your altitude in your position reports (not in the pattern). "Cessna 12345 is five miles south at 2800, inbound for runway 25."

Problem I had was those passing through were monitoring a different channel then I and I never heard them.

But you are right you will start seeing this traffic, it just takes practice. It;s like hunting, at first you do not see nothing, then slowly you start to see all the wild life. Same with the airplanes in the sky.

I saw a helicopter coming the other evening and a year ago I would have missed it. Today I picked it right up, it was bellow horizon and I was not using my TAS, the battery was dead.

You will start to see these things, keep your head on a swivel, that is the best advice.

Tony

 

[petrolero]

I agree. See & avoid only works at frighteningly close range many times. It is imperfect. But we couldn't build, much less afford to fly in, a system that even approached perfect.

At 3000' AGL you really do just have to keep your eyes open. A PCAS can help. ADS-B in/out or out-with-an-ipad can help. But there are still transponderless aircraft lurking out there that no GA-level system will see. So it still requires eyes out.

I like flying IFR so that I get help spotting traffic. But even that system still has the old see & avoid built into it when VMC in airspace where no xpdr is required (and even where it is required! see below). So head on up to good old Class A and you should be ship shape!

I had to fly NORDO & transponderless (alternator failure in flight) in the Mode C veil under DEN class B and actually saw and avoided a taildragger crossing right to left 2 o'clock dead same altitude. I was super nervous so I was also hyper hyper hyper vigilant. I still only saw it at 1/2 to 1 mile - enough time to initiate a steep turn and miss it by I'd guess 1/4 mile. That was the last time I rented or flew with that instructor (for many reasons). There is a reason transponders are required under B and it isn't just to make sure we don't bust airspace. The taildragger had ROW but I don't think he saw me. I could see their faces and they were not looking my way.

 

[ClimbnSink]

If you can't handle the possibities of dying in a fiery mix of twisted aluminum and your guts stay on the ground.
Edit to add. Odds are if you die in a little plane it won't be from a mid air but from something stupid and preventable you did.

 

[asechrest]

My theory is that, if you're away from the airport and not on an airway or exactly at a VFR altitude, the chance of you and another plane meeting in mid air ought to be awfully small. Vanishingly small, I hope. Thought I could be kidding myself.

The airport environment, or perhaps congested flight training areas, are the scary areas. Head on a swivel and as much listening and communicating as possible are what I go by.

 

[petrolero]

My theory is that, if you're away from the airport and not on an airway or exactly at a VFR altitude, the chance of you and another plane meeting in mid air ought to be awfully small. Vanishingly small, I hope. Thought I could be kidding myself.

The airport environment, or perhaps congested flight training areas, are the scary areas. Head on a swivel and as much listening and communicating as possible are what I go by.

I'd add mountain passes too.

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

This has bugged me since I started venturing outside of my airport's controlled airspace as a student pilot...

Even in the controlled environment of a class D airport while in the pattern and hearing on the radio exactly where to look for traffic those little airplanes are hard to pick out... even the big ones take a while to find and that's when I know almost exactly where in the sky they are supposed to be.

But then when venturing outside of that bubble within 3000'agl they could be anywhere. They could be on a collision course at your altitude. I've seen a few come close. I've been at uncontrolled fields talking to one other aircraft in the pattern with me and seen somebody without a radio swoop in ahead of both of us.... and I've admittedly messed up at uncontrolled fields before by not realizing I'm on the downwind for a different runway than I announced on the radio until flying by the numbers.

But in the pattern we're looking and expecting this stuff to some extent... en route I've had aircraft uncomfortably close to my altitude go shooting by within 1/4 mile or so. I kept thinking in those situations that if they'd really been on a collision course I don't know if I'd have seen it, recognized what was happening, and reacted fast enough.

I've tried to mitigate this.... if I can't get above 3000 agl due to ceilings which has happened a lot lately I try to fly at altitudes like 2250 or 2750... and so on instead of the 500s in hopes less traffic will be there. I get flight following, when going near a field I tune my com2 to that field's CTAF or tower and listen. I invested in a PCAS... which in my experience isn't much help most of the time.

But still none of that guarantees a thing. We're supposed to look out the window... slowly scanning the sky and I do that too but does it really work when 2 little airplanes are closing at a combined 300mph? I dunno.... Are we in reality actually just relying on the fact that the sky is very big and we're very small so the odds of 2 aircraft trying to occupy the same space at the same time is pretty low? I know midair collision are a rare thing... but still it bothers me.

Call me a pu$$y but this is why I don't leave the pattern without FF.

 

[Mistake Not...]

if you're away from the airport and not on an airway or exactly at a VFR altitude

given how sloppy VFR only pilots tend to be, exactly at a VFR altitude may be one of the safer places to be.

Assuming they bothered to set the altimeter at all...

Flight following rocks.

 

[petrolero]

Call me a pu$$y but this is why I don't leave the pattern without FF.

I'm with you. We pay for that radar to be out there. Why not use it if we can get it?

[cue curmudgeons rar rar rar... FAA... rar rar... talk to nobody... rar rar rar]

 

[CTLSi]

Call me a pu$$y but this is why I don't leave the pattern without FF.

In the middle of Nevada you can't get FF. The only defense is to stay high, be on Hemispheric altitudes, tune in each airport CTAF as you fly over, and if you have it, use ADS-B as I do and stay tuned.

Oh, and stay off Victor airways when flying GPS. They are inefficient anyway.

 

[somorris]

I fly a lot of VFR without FF. When approaching an airport along my route, I announce where I am and my altitude. I fly at (if under 3000 agl) odd altitudes like you mentioned. I keep an eye out. That is about all we can do. You can miss an airplane fairly easily as long as you see it a little in advance A quarter mile isn't really close. I like airplanes that are easy to see . Yellow, etc. I am more concerned when I drive on the interstate in Memphis than flying.

 

[kevin7500]

But then when venturing outside of that bubble within 3000'agl they could be anywhere. They could be on a collision course at your altitude. I've seen a few come close.

Why worry about it? You are much more likely to have an engine failure during take off than be involved in a mid-air collision. Another thing, about 75% of mid-air collisions occur within 5 miles of an airport. So, statistically you are much safer when you are out of the bubble you feel safest in.

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

In the middle of Nevada you can't get FF. The only defense is to stay high, be on Hemispheric altitudes, tune in each airport CTAF as you fly over, and if you have it, use ADS-B as I do and stay tuned.

Oh, and stay off Victor airways when flying GPS. They are inefficient anyway.

Good point. I haven't ventured more than about 300 miles outside DFW So I have almost always had it.

They lost me one time for about 30 min but stayed on the radio with me telling me where traffic and weather were relative to VORs and airports so I could.

I still have a lot to learn. Hopefully I will have a "go farther machine" in the next year or so.

 

[jordane93]

It takes some time to get used to. Just keep your head on a swivel and keep trying to look out for traffic.

 

[Jimmy cooper]

The majority of mid airs occur at or near an airport. Most occur with one aircraft overtaking another. ( unseen with one above or below the other being a major cause) radio communication is most important describing your intentions before entering the pattern including altitude. Common sense.

 

[CTLSi]

Good point. I haven't ventured more than about 300 miles outside DFW So I have almost always had it.

They lost me one time for about 30 min but stayed on the radio with me telling me where traffic and weather were relative to VORs and airports so I could.

I still have a lot to learn. Hopefully I will have a "go farther machine" in the next year or so.

We are all learning. The certification is nothing more than permission to go up and figure out something new. Anyone that thinks they know it all is one flight away from a crash.

One big reason I comment on these boards is both to learn from others and to verify what I am gonna say by researching it in the FAR/AIM etc. Its a great excuse to keep being a student.

 

[brian]]

You are so going to miss the best part of flying if you are afraid to leave the pattern...

Out here in the midwest / southeast. Even the class "B" airspaces are fairly open (minus ATL) - IF you know where the jets are lining up in a conga line...

Anyway, a lot has to come together for two aircraft to be exactly at the same place at the same time. So airports are #1. Victor "highways" are another - but you have to be exactly at the same altitude. Even when I can get Flight Following, I mostly don't see the target the controller calls out.

Best option is to just look out the window.

Now for a personal "dumb *** moment" I did: calling out the wrong location when in the pattern. I'll not give the ignorant details, but I was not where I thought I was, and trying to be nice to the traffic taking off. Even after taking off and much closer than i would have liked, I got the realization that
#1 I was a dumb ***,
#2 keep your eyes open,
#3 our aircraft are a lot smaller and slower than we imagine them to be.

Anyway, I'm not terribly afraid of meeting someone for a midair collision flying cross country. In fact, you are more likely to have a mid air in the pattern than anywhere else. (Ok, due to dumb dumbs like me - but then again, I doubt I'm the only person to every have a momentary lapse like this. So now - I "brief" a VFR landing just like an IFR landing - even if I'm familiar with the airport.)

 

[Shawn]

I just installed ADS-B out and get a great traffic picture on Foreflight and I still can't find the little buggers in the air!

I have been playing the game "see if I can locate traffic before ATC calls out a traffic advisory"

I have also learned that it is most important to pay attention to traffic advisories when along with your advisory from ATC you hear the alarm bells sounding in the background!

 

[brian]]

I just installed ADS-B out and get a great traffic picture on Foreflight and I still can't find the little buggers in the air!

I have been playing the game "see if I can locate traffic before ATC calls out a traffic advisory"

I have also learned that it is most important to pay attention to traffic advisories when along with your advisory from ATC you hear the alarm bells sounding in the background!

Good luck. Flown a couple of aircraft with that technology.

Did you know some aircraft don't have electrical systems and no transponder :hair raise:

Nice backup solution, but the primary instrument for IFR/VFR avoiding is the human eyeball..

 

[DevilDogOz]

One thing that also helps is having your landing, recognition or other lights on, if possible. I know sometimes that isn't an option based on electrical or overheating issues but it does make YOU more visible to the other guy... One of my client's SOPs is if the rotor's turning then all lights are on (including a searchlight).