Sectional Chart Cycle **CHANGES**

I just did a recalculation after talking with the Foreflight rep. He said the FAA will require two EFBs. Though it isn't necessarily spelled out in the AC, he said the FSDO will require it. The only reference I can find in AC 120-76D is:

12.1 Paper Removal. If an operator has an EFB program authorized with adequate mitigations or develops adequate mitigations as a modification to an existing program, it is possible to remove some or all paper products from the aircraft using an equivalent level of safety. An operator proposing to remove paper from the aircraft must have program mitigations in place to prevent an EFB failure resulting in the loss of any aeronautical information required for the operation of the flight. Although this AC categorizes EFB applications into Types A and B, required aeronautical information is defined by regulation and legal interpretations outside the scope of this AC. This requirement applies to paper removal for any flightcrew member, not only the pilot or copilot.
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That makes costs go up dramatically. If we don't use geo-referenced charts, ie. no cellular and no GPS, that would be $1316/year for the hardware.

The rep told me we would need a subscription for each pilot and one for each plane as their method is to assign an EFB to each plane and to each pilot. I think that's silly; sounds like a good way for Foreflight to sell more subscriptions. We would get one subscription per pilot and issue two iPads per pilot. So that's $1120/year in subscriptions.

There's also chargers and cases for these tablets that I haven't shopped for yet. That still puts us $777 above chart prices and we didn't even provide geo-referenced maps.

Palmpilot said:
It seems like the cost increase would further reduce paper sectional sales. I like having them for my local area even though I am now a ForeFlight user, but if it costs three times as much, I'm not sure it will be worth it.
Click to expand...

I'm curious how much longer paper charts will be printed. Is there an end in sight?
 
Joshuajayg said:
I'm curious how much longer paper charts will be printed. Is there an end in sight?
Click to expand...

Actually, the FAA no longer prints any of the charts at all, for several years now. They provide the digital files and independent companies print them: https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/flight_info/aeronav/print_providers/

As such, I assume the answer is, like any other business question, "as long as there is enough business to support it", they will keep printing them.

That said, you can certainly download the digital files yourself, in either Geo-TIFF or PDF format:

https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/flight_info/aeronav/digital_products/vfr/

I don't know about the legalities or not for non-Part 91 operations, but as a Part 91 pilot I could print them out myself if I want, or save them onto a tablet as a picture file and use that.
 
Joshuajayg said:
I just did a recalculation after talking with the Foreflight rep. He said the FAA will require two EFBs. Though it isn't necessarily spelled out in the AC, he said the FSDO will require it. The only reference I can find in AC 120-76D is:

12.1 Paper Removal. If an operator has an EFB program authorized with adequate mitigations or develops adequate mitigations as a modification to an existing program, it is possible to remove some or all paper products from the aircraft using an equivalent level of safety. An operator proposing to remove paper from the aircraft must have program mitigations in place to prevent an EFB failure resulting in the loss of any aeronautical information required for the operation of the flight. Although this AC categorizes EFB applications into Types A and B, required aeronautical information is defined by regulation and legal interpretations outside the scope of this AC. This requirement applies to paper removal for any flightcrew member, not only the pilot or copilot.
​
That makes costs go up dramatically. If we don't use geo-referenced charts, ie. no cellular and no GPS, that would be $1316/year for the hardware.

The rep told me we would need a subscription for each pilot and one for each plane as their method is to assign an EFB to each plane and to each pilot. I think that's silly; sounds like a good way for Foreflight to sell more subscriptions. We would get one subscription per pilot and issue two iPads per pilot. So that's $1120/year in subscriptions.

There's also chargers and cases for these tablets that I haven't shopped for yet. That still puts us $777 above chart prices and we didn't even provide geo-referenced maps.



I'm curious how much longer paper charts will be printed. Is there an end in sight?
Click to expand...
Again, FltPlan Go has all the charts and georeferenced plates, it's free, and it's optimised for corporate/fleet ops.
 
denverpilot said:
I’m sure the change is all about safety. LOL
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If it's really coming from the FAA and not ForeFlight, then that probably is their actual concern. Consumer mobile devices are highly unreliable, so if I didn't have paper charts on board as backups, I wouldn't fly without at least two mobile devices with EFB apps. Fortunately, most of us meet that easily, with the tablet on the yoke and the phone in the pocket.
 
David Megginson said:
Again, FltPlan Go has all the charts and georeferenced plates, it's free, and it's optimised for corporate/fleet ops.
Click to expand...

Does FltPlan Go (or any of the rest of the EFB data providers) apply the changes in the Chart Bulletins between cycles? I haven't seen ony of them doing that, nor have I found a reasonable way to make manual updates to the electronic charts. I know FF and GP allow you to "Annotate" IAPs and such, but I have not found a way to annotate sectionals, for example.
 
smv said:
Does FltPlan Go (or any of the rest of the EFB data providers) apply the changes in the Chart Bulletins between cycles? I haven't seen ony of them doing that, nor have I found a reasonable way to make manual updates to the electronic charts. I know FF and GP allow you to "Annotate" IAPs and such, but I have not found a way to annotate sectionals, for example.
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I believe not, and agree that's a big advantage of paper charts.

In Canada, our VNC (sectional) changes between releases come out as regular NOTAMs rather than special bulletins, so they'd be even harder to apply automatically.
 
denverpilot said:
I’m sure the change is all about safety. LOL
Click to expand...

Long time no chat. I've been incognito for quite a while. Anyway, I prefer the term "risk management". Haha

David Megginson said:
If it's really coming from the FAA and not ForeFlight, then that probably is their actual concern. Consumer mobile devices are highly unreliable, so if I didn't have paper charts on board as backups, I wouldn't fly without at least two mobile devices with EFB apps. Fortunately, most of us meet that easily, with the tablet on the yoke and the phone in the pocket.
Click to expand...

I think what Denver Pilot was saying is the SWITCH to 56 day cycles is a safety push, not the two device requirement. And AOPA pushed it, not the FAA. I'm the minority; not having a tablet with me all the time. So people like me that will have to buy three times the number of charts to stay legal aren't much of a concern. If I fly part 91, chances are you won't find a current chart (digital or paper) with me. I also don't fly IFR unfortunately.

I was however surprised the Ravn/Hagland/Era conglomerate was all paper still.
 
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smv said:
Does FltPlan Go (or any of the rest of the EFB data providers) apply the changes in the Chart Bulletins between cycles? I haven't seen ony of them doing that, nor have I found a reasonable way to make manual updates to the electronic charts. I know FF and GP allow you to "Annotate" IAPs and such, but I have not found a way to annotate sectionals, for example.
Click to expand...
You can annotate sectionals in ForeFlight, iFly, and probably a few others, although it may not be with as many options. Just freehand writing in FF, for example.
 
David Megginson said:
Again, FltPlan Go has all the charts and georeferenced plates, it's free, and it's optimised for corporate/fleet ops.
Click to expand...

I assumed the free applications were not allowed for commercial use. I just took another look at FltPlan Go and that doesn't seem to be the case. Also looks like it's owned by Garmin. I snagged an unused iPad from our company they usually use for front-end sales and I'll be trying out the program. Thanks for the suggestion.

I use Avare for flying in unfamiliar areas while part 91 and I don't have paper charts; it's an Android application. With most pilots I know being used to Apple products, I think I'll stick with the iPad for their sake.
 
This will put an end to paper sectional charts. Impossible to stock current charts.
 
Staying with foreflight and maybe an occasional paper chart in unfamiliar areas.
 
Joshuajayg said:
Anyone else aware that in 2021 the VFR charts will now fall into a 56-day update cycle rather than our current 168-cycle?

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media...rts-to-go-on-56-day-publication-cycle-in-2021

I work for an operator that doesn't use electronic flight bags so we still purchase paper charts. This will triple our chart subscription costs. I assumed this was the FAA doing something witty on their own part. Turns out the AOPA has been advocating this for years and they are happy it is finally happening. I'm not thrilled.

Thought you might want to know. Maybe, as a company, we need to move into the EFB world.
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So your employer should perhaps weigh the cost of paper with the cost of some tablets (Galaxy Tab A works great for charts, it's what I have.)
Or just make him fly with paper charts littering the cockpit. I hate paper charts!
Then again, they are VFR charts, so always fly IFR.
 
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