Second hand smoke

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Hey guys!
So I will be attending a concert at the famous red rocks ampathetre this week in Colorado.
I'm a 135 pilot and I'm worried of the effects second hand smoke could have on my random testing. Obviously I don't plan on indulging but Colorado is very lax on use st this venue. Any insight?
Thanks!
 
I would stay clear. It may be over paranoid, but I've seen these type of threads before... "I wasn't smoking it I must have inhaled it second hand".

I never buy it, and neither do the Feds. If you're honestly worried about it just stay clear.
It almost seems as though you are asking permission.
 
I would stay clear. It may be over paranoid, but I've seen these type of threads before... "I wasn't smoking it I must have inhaled it second hand".

I never buy it, and neither do the Feds. If you're honestly worried about it just stay clear.
It almost seems as though you are asking permission.
No one here is asking permission, not sure how you even come up with that. I'd just love to be able to go to a show in the state I live.
 
No one here is asking permission, not sure how you even come up with that. I'd just love to be able to go to a show in the state I live.
Just seen it too many times.

Aviation = stay away from the weed
That's the best policy. If you need to ask, which you did.......
 
These random135 tests: If your number comes up and you are out of town on vacation, do you have to report to some local lab?
 
Hey guys!
So I will be attending a concert at the famous red rocks ampathetre this week in Colorado.
I'm a 135 pilot and I'm worried of the effects second hand smoke could have on my random testing. Obviously I don't plan on indulging but Colorado is very lax on use st this venue. Any insight?
Thanks!
I wouldn't worry as long as you don't accept the joint when it's passed to you. You have to understand that there is a threshold that must be met before you are considered to have tested positive. That is why the guys that pop positive and try to claim 'oh it was just second hand smoke' have such a hard time fighting it. Because at the point that the test registers positive is high enough that they can say beyond a reasonable doubt that you were using.

I've been to three Tom Petty concerts since being subjected to Navy and Federal drug testing and it hasn't been an issue. In fact, I'm going to see TP this Wednesday in Hartford and I'm still on Navy and FAA drug testing programs. I'm not worried.

On the subject of Red Rocks, the first time I ever smelled pot being smoked was there.
 
I never buy it, and neither do the Feds. If you're honestly worried about it just stay clear.
It almost seems as though you are asking permission.
The reason the Feds don't buy the excuse is the test criteria. You'd have to be in an apartment around a bunch of pot smokers with the doors closed to test positive from second hand smoke.

Red Rocks is an open air amphitheater. The OP will be fine.
 
The reason the Feds don't buy the excuse is the test criteria. You'd have to be in an apartment around a bunch of pot smokers with the doors closed to test positive from second hand smoke.

Red Rocks is an open air amphitheater. The OP will be fine.
Okay. Until we get some poster "I was only at a concert and was over the limit"....

Staying clear is always the best path.
 
No one here is asking permission, not sure how you even come up with that. I'd just love to be able to go to a show in the state I live.
So would I but I haven't been able to go to an outdoor concert in years. Any smoke, not just the pot, gets me queasy. Wish they'd set up a live feed.
 
The reason the Feds don't buy the excuse is the test criteria. You'd have to be in an apartment around a bunch of pot smokers with the doors closed to test positive from second hand smoke.

Red Rocks is an open air amphitheater. The OP will be fine.
Wrong. If the wind blows and you're downwind, everything wafts downwind not up, and out.
 
Wrong. If the wind blows and you're downwind, everything wafts downwind not up, and out.
I've been to RR. My first time, there were even people right next to us smoking. My point is you are not going to be breathing sufficient smoke to result in testing positive for smoking.
 
Reminds me of when I was 25 and I was going to backpack around Europe for a month.

I said to my boss "If I get back and get caught for a random, can I just show my passport to prove it was legal where I was?"

He said, "This conversation didn't happen. Enjoy your vacation."

I think he meant "no"
 
These random135 tests: If your number comes up and you are out of town on vacation, do you have to report to some local lab?
Usually the notification goes to your employer. It's never been an issue for me, but I believe if you are selected and are out of town on a trip or vacation, the employer can notify them you are not available.
 
Okay. Until we get some poster "I was only at a concert and was over the limit"....
Did you read the link that was posted? It explains it pretty well.

There is no need to fear what isn't an issue. Just like there is no need to add 10 kts to your approach speed just because you are afraid of stalling.
 
Did you read the link that was posted? It explains it pretty well.

There is no need to fear what isn't an issue. Just like there is no need to add 10 kts to your approach speed just because you are afraid of stalling.
Okay... just a difference of opinion on this.

It's all good....
 
These random135 tests: If your number comes up and you are out of town on vacation, do you have to report to some local lab?
We only were subject to testing when we were available to work. It is also my understanding that "random" meant that you were subject to testing during a certain quarter and your employer determined a time that was convenient. Other places could be different.
 
We only were subject to testing when we were available to work. It is also my understanding that "random" meant that you were subject to testing during a certain quarter and your employer determined a time that was convenient. Other places could be different.
Yes, but weed stays in your system (even if one 8 hours as previously mentioned) long enough for this to be a factor.
There is a quota per quarter, but you never know when your quarter is up.
 
Yes, but weed stays in your system (even if one 8 hours as previously mentioned) long enough for this to be a factor.
There is a quota per quarter, but you never know when your quarter is up.
Enough for what to be a factor? I know that weed doesn't clear your system like alcohol. I know you never know when your quarter is up, but I think some here have the impression the random drug testing authority picks your number and you need to do it immediately. Your employer has some discretion, although they should make it a surprise.

I also wouldn't worry about going to a concert at Red Rocks.
 
Enough for what to be a factor? I know that weed doesn't clear your system like alcohol. I know you never know when your quarter is up, but I think some here have the impression the random drug testing authority picks your number and you need to do it immediately. Your employer has some discretion, although they should make it a surprise.

I also wouldn't worry about going to a concert at Red Rocks.
Let it be known, I wouldn't worry too much either. I'm just saying "to be certain".

The "quarter" I'm referring to is most companies need to test X amount of employees every quarter.. NOTHING to do with how long it stays in your system.
So, you never know when it's your time.
 
Maybe I'm stating the obvious, but if you really feel concerned that this event could put your job in jeopardy, than why go?
 
Let it be known, I wouldn't worry too much either. I'm just saying "to be certain".

The "quarter" I'm referring to is most companies need to test X amount of employees every quarter.. NOTHING to do with how long it stays in your system.
So, you never know when it's your time.
I thought it was pretty obvious that you never know when it's your time. I was simply answering the question about being tested when you're on vacation or off doing something else. I was only tested when I happened to be in the office doing something. They would hand me the papers, and I would head to the clinic. Hilariously, the last time I was tested was about a week before my last flight when they already knew I was leaving. I was probably only tested 5 times in 17 years.
 
I thought it was pretty obvious that you never know when it's your time. I was simply answering the question about being tested when you're on vacation or off doing something else. I was only tested when I happened to be in the office doing something. They would hand me the papers, and I would head to the clinic. Hilariously, the last time I was tested was about a week before my last flight when they already knew I was leaving. I was probably only tested 5 times in 17 years.
Yup... it's almost silly.
The last time I was randomed was at 0130 in Denver AFTER a full day of flying... with breathalyzer.
Whatever...
 
We only were subject to testing when we were available to work. It is also my understanding that "random" meant that you were subject to testing during a certain quarter and your employer determined a time that was convenient. Other places could be different.
FAA pulls the names and then tells your employer?

My only experience with random testing was with a company that did it all in house. Pretty sure if your name came up and you were out of town, you'd get called when you got back. I think I got called once in ten years.
 
FAA pulls the names and then tells your employer?

My only experience with random testing was with a company that did it all in house. Pretty sure if your name came up and you were out of town, you'd get called when you got back. I think I got called once in ten years.
Usually the company has a drug czar, and the entire rules are laid upon them.

Ususually something like 25% of your workforce per year (random, so you could get it four times a year and others none for many years).
Then it's something like 1 out of four of those also get to give a breath sample.
 
I have been called for several random pee test, but never been called for a random breathalyzer.
 
FAA pulls the names and then tells your employer?

My only experience with random testing was with a company that did it all in house. Pretty sure if your name came up and you were out of town, you'd get called when you got back. I think I got called once in ten years.
Drug and alcohol testing is mandated by the DOT, not the FAA. The way it was explained to me is that a certain number of names is pulled quarterly, and you need to be tested during that quarter. The person in charge of the drug program within the company determines when, but it needs to be a surprise. It seems as if in most cases I got to do both (drug and alcohol) at the same time, but I know the last time was just drug. It was always when I was at the office already, and never before a flight, since that would delay the flight, LOL. Driving to the clinic and back, plus the test, would take a least a half an hour if not more.
 
If one really wants, they can read 14 CFR 120 which is the regulation that covers the testing required by the FAA for air carriers and operators.
 
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Let's say the false positive rate for drug testing is 8% and the false negative rate is 13%. (My Googling finds 5-10% and 10-15% respectively.)

Also let's say 10% of the population is using illicit drugs. (My Googling finds for example, 10% of the entire population has used illicit drugs recently.)

So you do drug testing on 1000 people. There are 900 clean people and 100 drug users.

100 x 0.13 = 13 people will show clean who are actually drug users. 87 people who are users will test correctly.

900 x .08 = 72 innocent people will wrongly show false positive. 828 people will test clean who are indeed clean.

So does this mean if you test positive, there is only an 8% chance you are innocent? Most people think so but it's not true:

If you have a positive test, what are the odds of you being innocent? Here are the people who test positive:

87 drug users
+72 innocent people
159 people test positive for drugs. Of those 159 people, 55% are drug users, and 45% are innocent.

This means if you test positive, you are ALMOST 50/50 CHANCE INNOCENT.

This seems counter intuitive because you know the false positive rate of the individual test is only 8%. But because the majority of the population are not drug abusers, your odds of being in the larger non-user population greatly increase the chance you are one of the false positives over the test's 8%.

The 8% accuracy becomes more true if you limit those you test to people with known histories of drug abuse. But when you test the population at large, it becomes extremely unfair. Random drug testing of all employees is an atrocity. It is feel-good overkill that hurts a lot of innocent people. There are much more accurate and fair ways to root out the true rotten apple.

Feel free to run these numbers again plugging in whatever statistics you come up with.

To the OP, it doesn't matter. Go to the concert. You've got almost as high a chance as testing positive for no reason at all as for your contact high.
 
My mom worked in security for Delta Airlines at KIND, and also for a security company that contracted for various concerts at Market Square Arena.
She used to comment how high they would get from all the second hand smoke. (this was in the late 60's btw)
I should have followed in her foot steps. I always ended up a paying customer :p

Funny story... my first concert was there. Nazareth opened for Aerosmith in '77. I was 14. It was July 4th. Wild as hell concert, fireworks everywhere!
The guard at the door (not my mom ha ha) asked me if I had any drugs.
I said 'no'
He said 'sorry, I can't let you in'
A guy next to me handed me a joint and said 'here man'!
The guard laughed and said, 'go on in'
True story.
 
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I can't really answer your question, but..........red rocks, this weekend. thanks for the tip!
 
The super (not so) secret incinerator for Tucson law enforcement drug disposal is one good golf drive away from the ATC tower where I work. They will wait until the wind is blowing away from the city (aka towards the tower) to fire that thing up. Sometimes the smell in the stairwell is really strong. Every time we've had an inspection by the flight surgeon we've always brought up that point. They've always said that it isn't a high enough concentration for any of us to test positive for a random drug urinalysis.
We always know when they're going to fire it up because suddenly there are Rider rental trucks near the facility. Once they "lost" a bale of marijuana and interviewed everyone on shift in the tower that day if anyone had seen anything.
 
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