Seat width PA32 vs PA28

bcool

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Bud
Anybody know if the front seats on a PA32 (Six,Lance, Saratoga) are wider than in a PA28 (Archer, Arrow, Dakota)?

I know the cabin is about 7" wider, but I was wondering if that translates into wider seats or just a bigger space between them?
 
They feel the same to me, but I haven't measured them.
 
I agree with the others, I don't think the seats are that much different but the space between is wider. Although given how much different many seats across the same models look it may vary from airplane to airplane.
 
They're wider. More comfortable too imo. They're also framed in such a way so that the seat bottom slews away from the side wall relative to the seat tracks, which is obviously necessary to accommodate a wider seat. But it also fixes in the -32 the -28 problem of having to partially side-saddle in order to clear your outer arm from the wall, at least for those of us mesomorphs with V-torsos. There's clearance for your outer arm in the -32, not so in the 28 (see pics below). Some pre-'72 folks have the elbow inserts into the sidewall to compensate, but the post-'72 -28 guys are largely screwed on that front.

Otherwise, you're ever so slightly leaning away from the wall, if you attempt to seat squarely in the seat. Back pain city. It's my one long standing gripe against the PA-28, and why I fly my wife and kid in the back in order to compensate. One hour flights no big deal, but multi leg 4+ hour trips, no way I do it these days with a pax in the front (plus I like the empty seat for office space). Thankfully my mission perfectly accommodates a X O |X X seating arrangement, so whatever.

The other result that is common in the PA-28, is that because people are always seat-compensating like that, the inner rear corner of the bottom cushion wears out early and you get that blasted hot spot in the rear quarter. Quite literally, a PITA. :D

Folks have been known to iLlEgAlLy *snorts* fly with Lance seats in the pilot seat (apparently the tracks mate), and retain the original in the right, in order to better the ergonomics situation (pencilwhipping/inattentive APs lEgAlItIeS notwithstanding), but you can't really fit two -32 seats in a -28 frame. They'll close the inner gap and block the trim and flap track.

We've had this discussion in the piper forum, they got pictures and everything. Here's some from the discussion:
upload_2020-11-8_10-39-51.png
PA-32 seats. Look at the frame/cushion offset to the inside of the cabin. PA-28 seats lack it, because they're narrower and align square with the frame track centerline.

upload_2020-11-8_10-45-8.png
This was a 2013 picture of my trusty chariot (since recushioned, mediocre job by my former AP but that's for another day). Note the classic metal frame impingement hotspot and the lack of clearance with the sidewall. Kudos to Piper for being avant garde and making accommodations for left amputee pilots. Great SODA ride platform that seating LOL :rolleyes:


upload_2020-11-8_10-44-41.png
Piper board courtesy picture of same area in a Lance. Self-explanatory. Checkmate.

There's a picture of someone with -32 seats in a Cherokee 180C. No way of documenting the legality of it (he said something 337 something something, sounds oneoff/iffy), so I'm not gonna post the pics. They fit, but no clearance in the middle which again is a problem (not for him, since old -28s have trim crank in the roofline).

Cheers!
 
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to iLlEgAlLy *snorts* fly with Lance seats in the pilot seat (apparently the tracks mate)
Curious. What would be the issue to put a 32 seat on the left side? Don't know the specifics on the 28/32 swap but have swapped out seats on a simple logbook entry. Others needed a 337 but mostly due to interference or mounting issues. For example, Cessna allowed the install of vertically adjusted seats throughout the 100 series models except the 150. No additional approval needed.
 
I know that within the PA28's they didn't care about the suffix. But no experience with 28 to 32. I suspect @hindsight2020's observations from the Piper forum are probably on track. <-- see what I did there?
 
Wow! That was quite the comprehensive response! I was hoping they'd be wider because my Archer seats (as you noted) are quite literally a pain in the butt on long trips.
 
Curious. What would be the issue to put a 32 seat on the left side? Don't know the specifics on the 28/32 swap but have swapped out seats on a simple logbook entry. Others needed a 337 but mostly due to interference or mounting issues.

Dunno, beats me. Since I took my own advice and now pivoting my play/upgrade money on RVs, I'm no longer invested in fac-built side quests on what needs what signature and what doesn't according to what lunar phase/ day of the week/what mood FSDO is et al. I got the answer I needed once I saw the Lance seating ergonomic clearance picture, so I didn't follow the paperwork part of the thread.

What I can say with confidence (fwiw) is that the PA-32 seats P/Ns were never listed as optional equipment for the PA-28, and are materially different in size and construction from all the PA-28 seat seat variants. The poster I referenced regarding the PA-32 seats in the pre-72 PA-28-180 never gave an answer, but admitted his AP went asking because they had no way to justify the installation when the latter put eyes on the logs (presumably first-to-him annual after purchase).

There were other things the poster allocuted to (even posted pics of it, which again I will not forward here), like ad hoc plaid-gap seat webbing that looked like it came from a retro lawn chair, and a lengthy and banal back and forth regarding whether 337s before 1955 were good enough for "approved" data or merely "supporting" data, in the furtherance of a new and subsequent 337 for this nonsense. The quote was: "337s approved prior to early October 1955 are approved data for later 337s. 337s approved after that date are just supporting data for later 337s.". I think you're probably a better source for the answer since I infer you made a living at managing the parsing of this regulatory wordsalad kabuki. I have no reason to doubt an IA's stance on this at face value, since you guys have that magic signature power. At the end of the day, that's all that matters for those interested in pursuing mods in fac built land.

Wow! That was quite the comprehensive response! I was hoping they'd be wider because my Archer seats (as you noted) are quite literally a pain in the butt on long trips.

No worries. Just wanted to let ya know it's not just you, it's a well-known and common nuisance in PA-28 land. The fact is Piper made a conscious decision to materially handicap the Arrows and Dakota power loading (arrow) and ergonomics (all -28s) specifically to placate Lance/SiX sales, once the comanche and its uneconomical part-count and gear forward-support "nuances" (to pick a euphemism) literally drowned in 1972. @Pilawt can give you the picture posting of the chapter and verse in the Piper-related book where that purposeful handicapping motivation/position of PA-28s vis a vis the Lance are revealed. I believe it has been posted on here before.
 
What I can say with confidence (fwiw) is that the PA-32 seats P/Ns were never listed as optional equipment for the PA-28, and are materially different in size and construction from all the PA-28 seat seat variants.
FYI: and in the land of Part 43 alterations the 32 seats don't have to be listed under a 28 or anywhere else for that matter. Now if you wanted to do a "part replacement" vs an alteration then yes how those seats are listed come into play. It may seem confusing but it's not.;)
now pivoting my play/upgrade money on RVs
Well it's about time. Seems kind of boring though... what are you going to be able to complain about now... the EAA isn't giving you enough guidance on your RV?:eek:
 
After reading this thread I'm completely amazed that Piper ever managed to sell a single PA-28 of any variation... :rolleyes:
 
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