Scary moment today

Trapper John said:
It makes about as much sense as pushing on the yoke to bank left, and pulling to bank right. You kind of expect a control to operate on the same axis as the effect it has...

But like Ed says, you get used to it.
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From the left seat, I always thought if it as pushing the nose down or pulling it up (rotating clockwise, pushing the crank forward, pushes the nose down).

It made sense to me. :D
 
SkyHog said:
From the left seat, I always thought if it as pushing the nose down or pulling it up (rotating clockwise, pushing the crank forward, pushes the nose down).

It made sense to me. :D
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And more importantly....you'd hit it.
 
dmccormack said:
Who said I don't use brakes?

Brakes + Full Flaps?

Slower, shorter, faster. :D
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If using flaps slows the plane down more than the brakes would, then you should just brake with flaps.
 
SkyHog said:
From the left seat, I always thought if it as pushing the nose down or pulling it up (rotating clockwise, pushing the crank forward, pushes the nose down).

It made sense to me. :D
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Righty-tighty, lefty-loosy...except for left-side bicycle pedals and old Chrysler lug nuts...
 
EdFred said:
If using flaps slows the plane down more than the brakes would, then you should just brake with flaps.
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Not "more"

"Brakes PLUS Flaps equals less total distance than one or the other.

Transfer of weight from wings to wheels in moments might work using instantaneous flap setting, but won't in most airplanes that have electric flap actuation.
 
dmccormack said:
Not "more"

"Brakes PLUS Flaps equals less total distance than one or the other.

Transfer of weight from wings to wheels in moments does work using instantaneous flap setting, but won't in most airplanes that have electric flap actuation.
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I would not argue with the slight change I made. I was talking johnson bar, not craplectric flaps.
 
dmccormack said:
AFAIK, both models coexisted for significant period of time...
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Yes, but the women who have been in my household rarely wash dishes, they use dishwashers. Take out the middle man.
 
dmccormack said:
The manual flap control was eventually nearly universally replaced with electric flaps.


Why...?
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I think that just comes from what people expect. Power windows have replaced roll-up windows. The manual gear, like manual windows, I would argue has fewer parts to fail and is unaffected by the electrical system.

I want my trim, flaps, and gear to be operated with switches and levers. I find electric is a nice form for all of them, but when the electrical system goes out you best have a good backup.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I think that just comes from what people expect. Power windows have replaced roll-up windows. The manual gear, like manual windows, I would argue has fewer parts to fail and is unaffected by the electrical system.

I want my trim, flaps, and gear to be operated with switches and levers. I find electric is a nice form for all of them, but when the electrical system goes out you best have a good backup.
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The Beech manual gear extension is about as easy as you get.

But no electric? No flaps.

I'm a fan of manual flap control. But I still wonder why manufacturers thought it was worth the added weight, complexity, and cost.

Something drove that decision....what?

:dunno:
 
dmccormack said:
The Beech manual gear extension is about as easy as you get.

But no electric? No flaps.

I'm a fan of manual flap control. But I still wonder why manufacturers thought it was worth the added weight, complexity, and cost.

Something drove that decision....what?

:dunno:
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Same reason the useful loads went down on almost all subsequent models. Bells and whistles, people want bells and whistles.
 
EdFred said:
Same reason the useful loads went down on almost all subsequent models. Bells and whistles, people want bells and whistles.
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Yep, when you're basically selling the same old airplane for years and years, you've got to throw some bells and whistles and change the paint scheme every couple of years.

To me, less is more, and that includes Johnson-bar flaps. And there's something to be said for the old Piper brake lever vs. toe brakes.
 
EdFred said:
If I mistake the flap handle for the gear switch, I probably won't pass the vision test of my FAA medical, and I have more issues than just with the FAA. When I mistake a 24" bar for a 2" switch separated by about 16" of distance, just take me out back and shoot me.
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And in Cessnas, you have to pull out on the gear handle to actuate it. There is zero chance of accidentally retracting the gear by reaching over to flip up the flap lever, and I do this all the time.

Now I'll be the first to admit that if I ever transition to a non-Cessna retract, I'll prolly have to break myself of the habit. For now I'm not too concerned, and as you say, the extra lift from the flaps interferes with braking. I can think of more than one field I visit regularly where getting slowed down soon is a good idea.
 
Well I got back on the horse today, took a short flight to FNT and back. The winds were building and it was bumpy as he!! up there, gusting to 22 kts at FNT and 20 back at VLL. Even so, the crosswind component was easy to manage and both landings were greasers, albeit with a slight bounce on the last landing.

The only attention getter in the flight (apart from getting my headset banged on the ceiling a few times) was when I put the gear down at FNT. The yellow gear-up light went out, there was the usual shake-thud after 15 seconds or so and a definite wheel in the mirror, but as far as I could tell, no green. Hmm. I recycled the gear, and this time, definitely a green. Because of the angle of sunlight I can't be sure that the green didn't come on the first time, and it went on first time no problem when I cycled it down at VLL, but that first time was sure unsettling, especially after that skidding landing yesterday.

The CFO digest has lots of posts on intermittent gear down indication problems and lots of possible causes, if I do indeed have a problem. I'm going to ask my mechanic to bring some jacks when he does my oil change, to make sure the gear are cycling properly and see if he can reproduce the problem on the ground. One possible failure mode occurs only at higher airspeeds so this will not be 100% insurance that everything is okay, but it will at least rule out some possibilities.
 
azure said:
And in Cessnas, you have to pull out on the gear handle to actuate it. There is zero chance of accidentally retracting the gear by reaching over to flip up the flap lever, and I do this all the time.
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You have to do that in the club's Arrow, as well. Couple that with the Johnson bar flaps and it's pretty hard to get the two confused.
 
Take a look at the position switches on the mains. Might need to "de-grease" them with a little cleaner soaked towel/rag as they do accumulate crud which can cause them to stick. I had this happen on a C210 once. Gets your attention.
 
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