Samsung Galaxy Tab

[George B]

I am very much interested in using the Samsung Galaxy Tab in the cockpit because of its' smaller footprint. Does anyone have experience with this unit using aviation Apps in the cockpit?

 

[ScottM]

the foreflight app for Android is not anywhere near as nice as it is for the iPad. I am not aware of ANY Android app that even comes close to Foreflight for the iPad.

 

[RickEllenburg]

But Avilution looks pretty nice. I haven't tried in the air yet, but it looks promising.

Rick

Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk

 

[jxdrl]

the foreflight app for Android is not anywhere near as nice as it is for the iPad. I am not aware of ANY Android app that even comes close to Foreflight for the iPad.

Naviator gets you everything you need in the air. Sectionals, low-enroutes, approach plates and a pretty magenta line. I'm sure they will keep updating it as it is still fairly new (April 27th release date). It also has a free trial for a month.
Remember, Foreflight wasn't perfect when it came out.

I have a Galaxy Tab that I use as my phone and in the airplane. It's not perfect but it stops me from having to find paper and keep it current.

I mentioned a little about it and posted some screenshots in this thread. http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41736

I haven't used it much in the plane since I've only flown 3 hours recently training and haven't done any hardcore traveling so I don't have too many gotchas about the program yet.

I'd recommend it if only for the size. For me, I carry it around in my pocket. Not so with an iPad which is why I went this route.

There are some good deals on eBay for them unless you get t-mobile's 2 year contract. Then it's only $200. Too bad ATT is the best around here.

 

[SkyHog]

the foreflight app for Android is not anywhere near as nice as it is for the iPad. I am not aware of ANY Android app that even comes close to Foreflight for the iPad.

Naviator is VERY close. Once a few more bugs get worked out, it will surpass it, both in price and features.

 

[ScottM]

Naviator is VERY close. Once a few more bugs get worked out, it will surpass it, both in price and features.

Let me know when that is. While I have an iPad2 with Foreflight I can get a really sweet deal on a galaxy with an unlimited data plan.

 

[gprellwitz]

New Galaxy 10.1 coming out next month with hardware comparable to iPad2 and running latest Android (3.01). Foreflight is mature, though still not perfect, but what is. The Androd apps aren't yet mature and have more gaps from what I've heard.

 

[jesse]

Naviator is VERY close. Once a few more bugs get worked out, it will surpass it, both in price and features.

That is a very bold statement NIck.

 

[TMetzinger]

That is a very bold statement NIck.

We should call him "Mr. Bold"!

Naviator has a way to go still, but I'm confident that the Android aviation segent will catch up with the iOS segment. I believe that NC software is doing an Android version of Logbook Pro, and WingX (Hilton Goldstein) is doing work on Android too.

Don't get me wrong - I think the iPad and Foreflight are great. I just REALLY like the form factor of the Galaxy Tab.

 

[SkyHog]

That is a very bold statement NIck.

Get on the Android train, Jesse. Its departing in 5 minutes.

Its not bold when its a sure thing. I wouldn't tell the man that says "The sun will rise in the eastern sky tomorrow" that he's bold.

And its a sure thing because the pricing model is already MUCH cheaper, and the lacking features are very minimal at this point. Seriously, we're really close to having an app for either Android or iOS that fits the bill perfectly (Naviator for Android, ForeFlight for iOS).

Except that Android is nearing market dominance. That is truth.

 

[gprellwitz]

Get on the Android train, Jesse. Its departing in 5 minutes.

Its not bold when its a sure thing. I wouldn't tell the man that says "The sun will rise in the eastern sky tomorrow" that he's bold.

And its a sure thing because the pricing model is already MUCH cheaper, and the lacking features are very minimal at this point. Seriously, we're really close to having an app for either Android or iOS that fits the bill perfectly (Naviator for Android, ForeFlight for iOS).

Except that Android is nearing market dominance. That is truth.

Not sure I'd agree with dominance, but I'd probably go for parity. And I think that competition here is a good thing, as long as we don't fragment the market too much.

 

[zaitcev]

New Galaxy 10.1 coming out next month with hardware comparable to iPad2 and running latest Android (3.01).

I knew about these plance since Samsung cancelled the Wifi-only Galaxy Tab, ostensibly to concentrate on this new device. But I am quite concerned that iPad-mania would cloud their judgement and make them switch to the 10" format. But the smaller size of Galaxy Tab was what made it attractive to me. Oh well, there's always Archos.

 

[denverpilot]

I never understood the desire to stick with whatever tech was playing catchup.

Why not use the best tech available today and if it surpasses that tech, switch later?

Everyone switches tech out every so often. I just buy what actually works best at the time of purchase and don't have to "hope" that any manufacturer will catch-up to another.

I do hope for new features and changes to the things I'm already using, but if something surpasses it, I just consider it in the next round of tech purchases.

Thus, Foreflight and iPad today, and if folks say something beats it in the future, buy that then.

Is it the love of the "underdog" that keeps you guys waiting for Android to catch up? I'm just askin', 'cause I'm curious. I don't have enough lifespan to waste waiting on tech companies. I used to do enough waiting on my own company's engineers to fix something blatantly stupid in our product(s) while customers stated and re-stated the obvious, "That's a really stupid bug!"

 

[SkyHog]

I never understood the desire to stick with whatever tech was playing catchup.

Why not use the best tech available today and if it surpasses that tech, switch later?

Everyone switches tech out every so often. I just buy what actually works best at the time of purchase and don't have to "hope" that any manufacturer will catch-up to another.

I do hope for new features and changes to the things I'm already using, but if something surpasses it, I just consider it in the next round of tech purchases.

Thus, Foreflight and iPad today, and if folks say something beats it in the future, buy that then.

Is it the love of the "underdog" that keeps you guys waiting for Android to catch up? I'm just askin', 'cause I'm curious. I don't have enough lifespan to waste waiting on tech companies. I used to do enough waiting on my own company's engineers to fix something blatantly stupid in our product(s) while customers stated and re-stated the obvious, "That's a really stupid bug!"

Plain and simple: Picking a device because of the apps is the most retarded argument for technology ever. The argument that the iPad/iPhone is better because of the apps is the last strand of the rope being gripped by the man falling off the mountain, because everything else about their beloved device has been surpassed in both cost and features.

In this specific instance, supporting Naviator in the hopes that it will soon beat out ForeFlight is a no-brainer because without support, the app will dry up and disappear. As more features come along, more people will use it, and that brings more money to the developer. That is what will take the Android devices to the point where pilots will no longer have that "I pick iPhone/iPad because of this one excellent app that you can't have on Android."

Look to the many dead threads on here about aviation apps for Android. Until recently, there were none, because everyone and their brother was using iOS. Now that iOS is dying a slow and miserable death, there are more pilots using Android, and hence, more support for an upcoming app that has every chance of beating out the "king of the mountain." And when that day comes, the cartoonish and childish applications that are left behind on iOS won't be enough for pilots to stay with a dying operating system.

So its not "Support the Underdog," its "Support the guys that are bringing good apps to the best devices."

 

[denverpilot]

Plain and simple: Picking a device because of the apps is the most retarded argument for technology ever.

Gosh, I figured the exact opposite. Pick something that does something I need it to do. Must be some new trend out there where the OS something runs on is more important than the software to do something.

The argument that the iPad/iPhone is better because of the apps is the last strand of the rope being gripped by the man falling off the mountain, because everything else about their beloved device has been surpassed in both cost and features.

Wow that's delusional. The first Samsung Galaxy was pulled from the market to make it at least as good as iPad 2, wasn't it? Is the next version released yet? Is Android's official tablet release done yet? Google must have announced that while I wasn't looking.

I guess I'd rather fall off the mountain than wait for the chairlift to be built next summer. Haha.

I was asking a serious question, but since you went straight to trolling mode... Not sure if this isn't an OSI Model Layer 8 & 9 thing... Layer 8 is Religion and Layer 9 is Politics.

In this specific instance, supporting Naviator in the hopes that it will soon beat out ForeFlight is a no-brainer because without support, the app will dry up and disappear. As more features come along, more people will use it, and that brings more money to the developer. That is what will take the Android devices to the point where pilots will no longer have that "I pick iPhone/iPad because of this one excellent app that you can't have on Android."

Okay that explains why to support it if you already have Android, but my question was why pick Android before it can even do the job? Makes sense for the Android owners who are already on the platform, yes. I was talking about those in this thread who seem to be waiting not only to purchase Android tablets, but who've waited through many iterations. Wouldn't it make more sense to have been flying with something else in the meantime?

Look to the many dead threads on here about aviation apps for Android. Until recently, there were none, because everyone and their brother was using iOS.

They were using what was available and worked at the time. You seem troubled by that?

[/QUOTE]
Now that iOS is dying a slow and miserable death, there are more pilots using Android, and hence, more support for an upcoming app that has every chance of beating out the "king of the mountain."
[/QUOTE]

Cite your sources on "slow and miserable death" and "more pilots using Android" please. As far as "beating the king of the mountain", hell...

ChartCase still kicks Foreflight, WingX, and obviously this Android newcomer's asses up and down the block on raw feature-set...

But their company got lazy, didn't get off of Windows tablets and/or couldn't port their code easily or quickly, and then lost the support of huge swaths of the aviation community overnight by suing over patents.

So I guess I'm answering my own question by stating that you can be "King of the mountain" one day and if the user-base isn't happy, they're gone the next.

So I get what you're saying about supporting the software on the device you want to use, I guess.

But I didn't arrive at iPad because it was an iPad. I went iPad for Foreflight. The rest of the things the iPad does for me are nice, but not all that necessary since I was already an iPhone/Mac user. In fact I'm posting this from Tapatalk on the iPhone while the iPad sits ten feet away because I can't thumb-type one-handed on the iPad.

And when that day comes, the cartoonish and childish applications that are left behind on iOS won't be enough for pilots to stay with a dying operating system.

I'm trying to figure out which "cartoonish and childish" apps I'm supposedly running on my iPad. Hmm.

Foreflight, no.
Mail, no.
Browser, same as any other, so no. Seesmic, no.
Photo viewer, no.
LogTen Pro, no.
182P Checklist... Sparse UI, but not cartoonish or childish, no.
Pilot FAR/AIM, no.
LiveATC, no.
E6B Pro, no.
Various SSH and RDP clients, no.
Accuweather, a little cartoonish but not aimed at pilots really. Not childish, will give you that one.
Calendar, with shared Home/Work, spouse, and Airplane calendars, no.
GoodRreader, no.
MyRADAR, no.
ETrade, Fidelity, eBay, Amazon, USPS, Craigsphone, Bloomberg... No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Angry Birds, YES! I found the "cartoonish and childish" App! Oh and Flight Control!

Dang. I better delete those so they don't contribute to the demise of iOS!

So its not "Support the Underdog," its "Support the guys that are bringing good apps to the best devices."

Okay so you're saying there's no "good apps" on iOS. I got that. Best devices? Ok. They seem pretty similar to me. Tablet, meet tablet.

I was serious with my question, but in my reply I'm just countering your assertions. Many of which don't seem to have a lot of basis in fact.

Neither iOS nor Android are dying. Computing is going mobile and that trend will continue. I was just curious why folks would wait to enjoy stuff that's already working.

I kinda expected a price commentary more than a bunch of un-based claims. Apple stuff ain't cheap.

And I totally get that argument... It's why I'm not "enjoying" in-panel IFR-certified Garmin stuff yet, for sure.

I'm tech agnostic. If the Android app does "pilot stuff" an order of magnitude better than FF someday, there'll be an Android purchase in my future. I gave up caring which OS the stuff runs on a long time ago, when I learned how to fix all of them and use all of them.

No such thing as perfect OSs or software... Not yet in my lifetime, anyway. You seem to be "keeping the faith" there will be. Applaudable but a lifetime in tech support tells me no matter what OS, software, or tech one purchases, they all have at least 10% really stupid bugs/failures.

A bunch of us on the board here would be instantly unemployed if perfect OSs and software could be written.

I was just curious how the decision-making process worked on buying something that doesn't really work yet. It fascinates me.

I haven't got time for that "waiting around for greatness" stuff on purchases that cost more than my first two automobiles.

Wasn't trying to get any "true believer's" dander up, really.

 

[jesse]

Plain and simple: Picking a device because of the apps is the most retarded argument for technology ever. The argument that the iPad/iPhone is better because of the apps is the last strand of the rope being gripped by the man falling off the mountain, because everything else about their beloved device has been surpassed in both cost and features.

In this specific instance, supporting Naviator in the hopes that it will soon beat out ForeFlight is a no-brainer because without support, the app will dry up and disappear. As more features come along, more people will use it, and that brings more money to the developer. That is what will take the Android devices to the point where pilots will no longer have that "I pick iPhone/iPad because of this one excellent app that you can't have on Android."

Look to the many dead threads on here about aviation apps for Android. Until recently, there were none, because everyone and their brother was using iOS. Now that iOS is dying a slow and miserable death, there are more pilots using Android, and hence, more support for an upcoming app that has every chance of beating out the "king of the mountain." And when that day comes, the cartoonish and childish applications that are left behind on iOS won't be enough for pilots to stay with a dying operating system.

So its not "Support the Underdog," its "Support the guys that are bringing good apps to the best devices."

Wow Nick....People have picked platforms because of the applications on them since pretty much day one. That isn't going to change anytime soon. The majority of the market-share doesn't give a **** about the platform, the community, etc. They just want a device to do a task.

 

[SkyHog]

I was asking a serious question, but since you went straight to trolling mode... Not sure if this isn't an OSI Model Layer 8 & 9 thing... Layer 8 is Religion and Layer 9 is Politics.

It was a serious answer. Not a trolling answer. That is all. Thanks for the rest of the beating.

 

[SkyHog]

Wow Nick....People have picked platforms because of the applications on them since pretty much day one. That isn't going to change anytime soon. The majority of the market-share doesn't give a **** about the platform, the community, etc. They just want a device to do a task.

You are correct. And picking a device because there are more user contributed apps on it than the other is stupid.

Its like picking OSX because it has a better Calculator than Windows. The usability of OSX beats Windows in every way, but if I applied your logic, I'd never go with OSX because there are more games on Windows, and a lot of apps that just don't exist in OSX.

Now, if all these awesome apps that you and the rest of the congregation spoke about were written by Apple, and given away as part of the OS, then yes, I'd say it might be "all about the apps," but its not. There's nothing that says that any of those applications can't be ported between devices, and there's nothing that says that someday Android might be king of the apps. When it is, what will be the next determining factor? "I choose the iPad/iPhone because of all the great accessories?"

 

[zaitcev]

Its like picking OSX because it has a better Calculator than Windows. The usability of OSX beats Windows in every way, but if I applied your logic, I'd never go with OSX because there are more games on Windows, and a lot of apps that just don't exist in OSX.

The unstated assumtion above is that a common set of criteria exists for platform selection across all users, and that is plainly wrong. I used a Linux desktop exclusively since 2001, and you know that application set on Linux is narrower than on Windows. I did that because I do not care for applications that are useless for me. In the same way iPhone or Android users may choose the platform while ignoring the current or projected market share. I can even give you an example within the context of PoA: imagine a pilot who thinks that 10" iPad is too big and iPhone is too small, he has no choice but to use a 7" Android device, even though ForeFlight for Android is crap!

 

[denverpilot]

It was a serious answer. Not a trolling answer. That is all. Thanks for the rest of the beating.

Sorry, I didn't mean it that way... really!

I've just gotten really pragmatic about computer tech over the years... if it does something I want it to do, I use it. Thus, I've ended up using just about every OS, etc... not a normal end-user that way, I suppose. "Power User" for lack of a better term.

I can't do RF propagation studies in MacOS for example... various tools only exist for Winderzzz... but I like tools like Aperture for my photos and Final Cut for videos... but then my work main "desktop" has become Ubuntu since I'm back to doing Linux admin for a living... and it probably should be Fedora but I was too lazy to fight with the hardware on the laptop... all I really need is an SSH/terminal session for the "job".

REALLY didn't mean to beat you up... I can get passionate about OS/UI discussions since my honest belief is that they ALL suck...

The song "Every OS Sucks" by Three Dead Trolls in a Baggie comes to mind. It's funny stuff.

http://www.deadtroll.com/index2.html?/video/ossuckscable.html~content

Their comedy skit "Welcome to the Internet Help Desk" is good too. There's a link to that up there on that site too.

Haven't listened to "How to Buy A Computer" yet... might have to check that one out. It might apply to this discussion?

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Its not bold when its a sure thing.

Except that Android is nearing market dominance. That is truth.

In tablets? Hardly. They've barely started.

Plain and simple: Picking a device because of the apps is the most retarded argument for technology ever.

No, it's the ONLY argument for technology. I don't buy technology because it's technology, I buy technology to get a job done.

I bought an iPad on day one not because I like Apple. I bought an iPad on day one because it can do a job that I'd been looking for a device to fill for five years. That is, display approach plates electronically in a usable way.

I'd been looking for something, anything that would do it well every year at Oshkosh, and it just wasn't there. Battery-hungry, expensive Windows tablets. E-ink devices up the wazoo that weren't able to display a plate at a readable size all at once, and the screen took approximately forever to update when trying to switch between different parts of the plate in a readable size. Just not workable.

I had ForeFlight on the iPhone mostly as a reference for "Hey, what airport is that?" when I was driving, and occasional in-cockpit use for grabbing a frequency or something. I could look at plates, but not in a usable size (though the screen was a lot faster than those e-ink devices).

When the iPad was introduced, I thought, "This is going to be HUGE for pilots." Having met Tyson at Oshkosh a couple of years earlier, I pinged him to ask what their plans were. Based on that, I actually stood in line for Apple gear, something I've never done before.

So the apps DO mean something. Does "We have 300,000 apps and the other guys only have 200,000" mean anything? Not for most things (seriously, how many tip calculators do you need?) but there is a better chance that the one with more total apps will have the one specialized app that does what you need it to do. But really, it's not about the total number of apps, it's about whether or not it has the one to do the job you want - Or more likely, the several to do several jobs.

Now that iOS is dying a slow and miserable death

You really are good for comic relief sometimes, Nick.

there are more pilots using Android

Any evidence for that claim?

And when that day comes, the cartoonish and childish applications that are left behind on iOS won't be enough for pilots to stay with a dying operating system.

Cartoonish and childish? Riiiiiiiiiiight. Sure, there are some - But they're meant for kids and/or gamers. And I don't think ForeFlight is just going to pack up and quit.

Nick, I've been listening to people say "The Mac is dead" for 25 years. In reality, Apple's doing quite well with Macs, to the point that they're near 10% market share, something that was almost completely unfathomable even 10 years ago.

iOS will be here for a LONG time. It's not "dying" and it's not going to in the foreseeable future. Neither is Android.

This is all just Mac vs. Windows all over again, only (ironically) Apple is the big guy so far.

I'm trying to figure out which "cartoonish and childish" apps I'm supposedly running on my iPad. Hmm.

Angry Birds, YES! I found the "cartoonish and childish" App! Oh and Flight Control!

Well, good thing all those "cartoonish" apps aren't available on Android!!!! (oh wait, those two are. )

I kinda expected a price commentary more than a bunch of un-based claims. Apple stuff ain't cheap.

There aren't any Android tablets actually shipping yet that are significantly cheaper than the iPad, though.

I can even give you an example within the context of PoA: imagine a pilot who thinks that 10" iPad is too big and iPhone is too small, he has no choice but to use a 7" Android device, even though ForeFlight for Android is crap!

There is no ForeFlight for Android. There is a different program called "ForeFlight Weather" for Android. I'm sure it does what it was designed to do just fine... But it is not ForeFlight. That's like saying ForeFlight Checklist is crap because it won't show me approach plates.

 

[SkyHog]

In tablets? Hardly. They've barely started.



No, it's the ONLY argument for technology. I don't buy technology because it's technology, I buy technology to get a job done.

I bought an iPad on day one not because I like Apple. I bought an iPad on day one because it can do a job that I'd been looking for a device to fill for five years. That is, display approach plates electronically in a usable way.

I'd been looking for something, anything that would do it well every year at Oshkosh, and it just wasn't there. Battery-hungry, expensive Windows tablets. E-ink devices up the wazoo that weren't able to display a plate at a readable size all at once, and the screen took approximately forever to update when trying to switch between different parts of the plate in a readable size. Just not workable.

I had ForeFlight on the iPhone mostly as a reference for "Hey, what airport is that?" when I was driving, and occasional in-cockpit use for grabbing a frequency or something. I could look at plates, but not in a usable size (though the screen was a lot faster than those e-ink devices).

When the iPad was introduced, I thought, "This is going to be HUGE for pilots." Having met Tyson at Oshkosh a couple of years earlier, I pinged him to ask what their plans were. Based on that, I actually stood in line for Apple gear, something I've never done before.

So the apps DO mean something. Does "We have 300,000 apps and the other guys only have 200,000" mean anything? Not for most things (seriously, how many tip calculators do you need?) but there is a better chance that the one with more total apps will have the one specialized app that does what you need it to do. But really, it's not about the total number of apps, it's about whether or not it has the one to do the job you want - Or more likely, the several to do several jobs.



You really are good for comic relief sometimes, Nick.



Any evidence for that claim?



Cartoonish and childish? Riiiiiiiiiiight. Sure, there are some - But they're meant for kids and/or gamers. And I don't think ForeFlight is just going to pack up and quit.

Nick, I've been listening to people say "The Mac is dead" for 25 years. In reality, Apple's doing quite well with Macs, to the point that they're near 10% market share, something that was almost completely unfathomable even 10 years ago.

iOS will be here for a LONG time. It's not "dying" and it's not going to in the foreseeable future. Neither is Android.

This is all just Mac vs. Windows all over again, only (ironically) Apple is the big guy so far.



Well, good thing all those "cartoonish" apps aren't available on Android!!!! (oh wait, those two are. )



There aren't any Android tablets actually shipping yet that are significantly cheaper than the iPad, though.



There is no ForeFlight for Android. There is a different program called "ForeFlight Weather" for Android. I'm sure it does what it was designed to do just fine... But it is not ForeFlight. That's like saying ForeFlight Checklist is crap because it won't show me approach plates.

If Apple designed the apps, I would agree 100%. But using the "Apps is god" argument is akin to saying "No one should ever use OSX because there are more programs on Windows," and you and I both know that is crap.

My comment of "More pilots using Android" that was intended to mean "More than before," not "more than Apple."

The market dominance is based upon the following numbers:http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/?p=27418

In another study I'm trying to find, it showed that in a specified timeframe, Android use grew by 10% while iOS grew by .02%. That is pretty damning.

But lets say for a second that "Apps are god." Besides ForeFlight, which now has a decent competitor coming along, what can you do on your iPhone/Apple Tablet, that I can't do on my Android Phone/Android Tablet. (btw, my eee Pad is en route, so they are, in fact, shipping).

As for cartoonish apps, let me refer you to the following two stock screenshots. Tell me which one feels more professional, and less "childish."

or

BTW, the very same arguments that you are making for the iPad being God are the very same ones that were used against you for years on Windows being God over OSX. I find it interesting to see the roles reversed.

And uh, since you refuse to use any technology unless it can already do the job you want it to do, and not the job you know it has the potential to do, why did you buy an iPhone early in its life when it didn't support MMS, didn't support Exchange, didn't support 3G (all three of which were industry standard and commonly used by most all users at that time), and didn't have ForeFlight or something similar on it. Moreover, why buy it now when it won't use the industry standard for web technology...after all, if its all about the apps, then it couldn't have done the job you needed on day 1, right?

 

[SkyHog]

Gosh, I figured the exact opposite. Pick something that does something I need it to do. Must be some new trend out there where the OS something runs on is more important than the software to do something.

See every claim ever about OSX.

Wow that's delusional. The first Samsung Galaxy was pulled from the market to make it at least as good as iPad 2, wasn't it? Is the next version released yet? Is Android's official tablet release done yet? Google must have announced that while I wasn't looking.

There are a number of different tablets shipping right now, and all but 1 have better specs and performance than the iPad, and all can do everything the iPad can do except ForeFlight (although, there is a very good alternative around now). Google != Apple, so the "official" device is less important, because its generally intended to be a developer's phone, not a consumer device.

Okay that explains why to support it if you already have Android, but my question was why pick Android before it can even do the job? Makes sense for the Android owners who are already on the platform, yes. I was talking about those in this thread who seem to be waiting not only to purchase Android tablets, but who've waited through many iterations. Wouldn't it make more sense to have been flying with something else in the meantime?

Your assumption that it can't do the job is wrong, and that is the point. What job can't Android do that Apple can. Once I hear that, I might just agree, but as of right now - I can't think of a single thing Android can't do that Apple can, except run ForeFlight (and again, there is an alternative that does run on Android).

They were using what was available and worked at the time. You seem troubled by that?

No. My point was that the big missing element was pilot apps. People were asking for them, and the threads dead ended because there were none (or at least, no good ones). That is no longer true, as there are quite a few starting to pop up now.

Cite your sources on "slow and miserable death" and "more pilots using Android" please. As far as "beating the king of the mountain", hell...

http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/?p=27418 among other sources

ChartCase still kicks Foreflight, WingX, and obviously this Android newcomer's asses up and down the block on raw feature-set...

But their company got lazy, didn't get off of Windows tablets and/or couldn't port their code easily or quickly, and then lost the support of huge swaths of the aviation community overnight by suing over patents.

Sounds like people clinging to their iOS devices blindly without looking at what other offerings are out there.

So I guess I'm answering my own question by stating that you can be "King of the mountain" one day and if the user-base isn't happy, they're gone the next.

Bingo.

So I get what you're saying about supporting the software on the device you want to use, I guess.

But I didn't arrive at iPad because it was an iPad. I went iPad for Foreflight. The rest of the things the iPad does for me are nice, but not all that necessary since I was already an iPhone/Mac user. In fact I'm posting this from Tapatalk on the iPhone while the iPad sits ten feet away because I can't thumb-type one-handed on the iPad.

Tapatalk was originally an Android app that was ported over. It remains cheaper on Android because of that reason. You chose iPad because it was the only option at that time to do ForeFlight. If Naviator had been out, you might have looked and both, and still would have gone iPad. Why? For the same reason that people pick Windows. They're not willing to take a chance on a better platform that can do the same things, but do them better. They're more familiar with the OS. Any number of reasons.

But as Android grows (and it is growing fast), that will become less true.

I'm trying to figure out which "cartoonish and childish" apps I'm supposedly running on my iPad. Hmm.

Any stock app that comes with the iPad. Remember, Apple didn't write any of the apps you are quoting below (hell, even the calculator built into iOS sucks. The wheelie thing to pick from drop downs is childish, and everything else about the device is childish (including the "My child's first camera" that will give you excellent pictures for the 1990s).

Foreflight, no.

Not written by Apple

Mail, no.

Yes. It feels like Microsoft Bob's implementation of Mail.

Browser, same as any other, so no. Seesmic, no.

Exactly the same, except it doesn't support Flash, so no industry standard website will run.

Photo viewer, no.

I don't remember the Photo viewer, because I never used the POS camera that came with the iPhone I had.

LogTen Pro, no.

I love LogTen Pro, but it is riddled with the childish little spinner things I was talking about earlier. The OSX version is amazing, and it does the job quite well, and I put up with LogTen Mobile Lite for that reason. Now that its gone, I see no redeeming quality about the mobile app.

182P Checklist... Sparse UI, but not cartoonish or childish, no.

Never seen it, not written by Apple.

Pilot FAR/AIM, no.
LiveATC, no.
E6B Pro, no.
Various SSH and RDP clients, no.

Never used 'em, not written by Apple, not applicable.

Calendar, with shared Home/Work, spouse, and Airplane calendars, no.

iPhone's calendar isn't bad. I liked it better than the original Android calendar, but that has grown into a much better implementation of a calendar now.

GoodRreader, no.
MyRADAR, no.
ETrade, Fidelity, eBay, Amazon, USPS, Craigsphone, Bloomberg... No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Never used 'em. Not written by Apple.

Angry Birds, YES! I found the "cartoonish and childish" App! Oh and Flight Control!

Games? Intended to be childish. And they are on Android too. And they're free on Android. They're not free on iOS.

Okay so you're saying there's no "good apps" on iOS. I got that. Best devices? Ok. They seem pretty similar to me. Tablet, meet tablet.

I never said that. I was implying that there are good apps on both. Best devices? Look at hardware specs.

I kinda expected a price commentary more than a bunch of un-based claims. Apple stuff ain't cheap.

Price is too easy. Apple is always more expensive because of the religious element associated with their success. People will pay more because there is a piece of fruit on the back of the device.

 

[TMetzinger]

<snip>
Price is too easy. Apple is always more expensive because of the religious element associated with their success. People will pay more because there is a piece of fruit on the back of the device.

That's called perception, and Apple has a reputation worthy of envy. Whether they deserve it or not is irrelevant. They've got it. People place a higher value on their products because they perceive them to be better.

Personally, I think Apple's good rep is deserved. They've made some stupid stuff, but they've stepped on their crank less frequently than nearly everybody else in the biz. And they've brought some truly innovative products to the masses.

 

[SkyHog]

That's called perception, and Apple has a reputation worthy of envy. Whether they deserve it or not is irrelevant. They've got it. People place a higher value on their products because they perceive them to be better.

Personally, I think Apple's good rep is deserved. They've made some stupid stuff, but they've stepped on their crank less frequently than nearly everybody else in the biz. And they've brought some truly innovative products to the masses.

Exactly the same reason that people will buy Hamburger Helper instead of Panburger Partner, even though Panburger Partner is more delicious and cheaper. Name recognition.

How about buying Malt-o-meal cereal?

Its all the same, its nothing more than brand-name recognition. Its not a better product, its a more recognizable name, and is not much different than the 8 year old girl that has to have the pink jelly bracelet because all of her friends have one.

 

[rpadula]

As for cartoonish apps, let me refer you to the following two stock screenshots. Tell me which one feels more professional, and less "childish."

Dude, you totally cherry-picked for that!

Check this out: http://fuglyandroid.tumblr.com/

 

[rpadula]

That's called perception, and Apple has a reputation worthy of envy. Whether they deserve it or not is irrelevant. They've got it. People place a higher value on their products because they perceive them to be better.

Personally, I think Apple's good rep is deserved. They've made some stupid stuff, but they've stepped on their crank less frequently than nearly everybody else in the biz. And they've brought some truly innovative products to the masses.

Exactly the same reason that people will buy Hamburger Helper instead of Panburger Partner, even though Panburger Partner is more delicious and cheaper. Name recognition.

How about buying Malt-o-meal cereal?

Its all the same, its nothing more than brand-name recognition. Its not a better product, its a more recognizable name, and is not much different than the 8 year old girl that has to have the pink jelly bracelet because all of her friends have one.

Famous last words:

No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame.

 

[wsuffa]

Isn't the Galaxy on Woot today?

via Tapatalk

 

[SkyHog]

Famous last words:

No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame.

Note that I still have my nomad. It works, years later.

My iPod Touch? Had it for a little over a year before it crapped out.

 

[denverpilot]

See every claim ever about OSX.

Not by me. Marketing rhetoric about tech from any "camp" is somewhat lost on me.

Seen a couple of decades of tech. Don't care much anymore.

Good text readability, good UI, and does things I want, pretty much covers it for me.

You mentioned some iPhone features the original didn't have. They were all things I didn't use and I didn't join iPhone's user base until the 3G or 3GS, I forget. Wasn't any compelling reason.

Like the Exchange integration... Didn't care. Employer wouldn't let me hook it to their server anyway.

iPhone for me, originally, was about being a phone and an iPod replacement for my ancient iPod. Apps were just icing on the cake.

I also use Macs because they're Unix systems under the hood. (Didn't care for Mac pre-OSX. Wife had an OS9 one, though.) The phone and iPad integrate nicely with the main personal laptop.

iPad was for Foreflight. Otherwise it's just a large-screen version of my phone. Good for viewing video and photos or sharing them. Not really many other "must have" Apps on it for me. Big weather maps look nice too I guess.

Really don't care much about the Apple marketing hype. Nor the Android.

You asked us to look at two screenshots to decide which one was more "childish" or something. Frankly the one with the clean background that didn't have stylized blue background graphics looked better to me and less "look at me" teenage "I wanna customize my desktop background" to me.

Just a matter of taste, I guess. Haven't seen a tech gadget that wasn't replaced with better/newer versions within a few years. Whether that's from the same or different manufacturers doesn't really matter. Have had various Palm phones, Blackberry (RIM), Nokia, iPhone.

Haven't seen anything in Android that's so compelling to switch off of the iPhone yet... Maybe it'll happen, maybe it won't. I get a kick out of the religious true believers on all sides though. Entertaining.

Some people like ketchup on their hot dogs, too! Not my favorite thing, ketchup.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

If Apple designed the apps, I would agree 100%. But using the "Apps is god" argument is akin to saying "No one should ever use OSX because there are more programs on Windows," and you and I both know that is crap.

Yup - And I agree that the total number of apps available, on the scales that both Android and iOS are now, is irrelevant. They're both well into the hundreds of thousands, and it sounds like Android will pass iOS in another several months. Whooptee freakin' doo, who really cares as long as the apps you need and want are there.

Now, when it comes to the Palm Pre OS and their under-5000-apps selection, the total number becomes somewhat more relevant simply due to the much lower likelihood of being able to do anything you want with it.

The market dominance is based upon the following numbers:http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/?p=27418

That doesn't show market dominance at all. It mostly shows parity. The major exception to that is the "phones bought in the last 6 months," those being Oct-Dec and Jan-Mar. The vast majority of iPhone sales come in the June-August time frame when the new ones come out. So, those numbers don't surprise me in the least. They simply show that there are two big players who are pretty much kicking everyone else's butt right now.

In another study I'm trying to find, it showed that in a specified timeframe, Android use grew by 10% while iOS grew by .02%. That is pretty damning.

Not really. iOS has been around a lot longer, so there's a lot more growth potential for Android.

But lets say for a second that "Apps are god." Besides ForeFlight, which now has a decent competitor coming along, what can you do on your iPhone/Apple Tablet, that I can't do on my Android Phone/Android Tablet.

I dunno what you can do. But FlipBoard isn't available on Android either. How about VitalSource Bookshelf? I had two primary uses in mind for the iPad when I bought it, flying and textbooks. ForeFlight handles the former, VitalSource Bookshelf was required last semester for the latter. How about the ABC Player app, for ABC TV shows? It's pretty impressive, I wish other networks would follow suit.

Frankly, as I'm googling these, none of them are showing up as available on Android. Those are just the first few I thought of, I'm not gonna go through all of my apps.

As for cartoonish apps, let me refer you to the following two stock screenshots. Tell me which one feels more professional, and less "childish."

or

I don't think either looks "cartoonish" but it must be a preference thing, I think the iOS one is much better looking AND more functional - I've noticed that I am able to find apps on my screen fastest by their "cartoonish" icons. There's too much different crap floating around on that Android screen too.

And uh, since you refuse to use any technology unless it can already do the job you want it to do, and not the job you know it has the potential to do, why did you buy an iPhone early in its life when it didn't support MMS, didn't support Exchange, didn't support 3G (all three of which were industry standard and commonly used by most all users at that time), and didn't have ForeFlight or something similar on it.

The iPhone was my first smartphone. I never had used MMS (hell, I still haven't), I never used exchange until my current job, which I started 2 months ago, and something like ForeFlight was completely unheard of on any platform at the time I bought the iPhone.

When I bought the iPhone, what I really wanted was a cell phone that didn't suck. Go look on YouTube at the iPhone intro, and see how much excitement there was. Cell phones used to always be a royal pain in the ass. Nokia's UI's tended to be usable at least, but Motorola's were absolute crap. Everyone HATED their cell phones back then. When the iPhone rumors started, they spread like wildfire because Apple people loved their Apple devices (Macs and iPods at that point) but HATED their cell phones.

So, who better to make a cell phone than Apple? We knew that they would get it right, and my first iPhone was far and away a better phone than any cell phone I'd ever had - Plus, it could get my email, surf the web, be my iPod, and a few other useful things. I didn't even care about 3rd-party apps at that point, because the iPhone was WAY better than anything I'd had previously.

Moreover, why buy it now when it won't use the industry standard for web technology...after all, if its all about the apps, then it couldn't have done the job you needed on day 1, right?

Ummmm... It does HTML, which is "the industry standard for web technology" just fine, always has.

I'll assume you mean Flash. And it does do Flash, just not on Safari.

It's all about the user experience. I don't miss Flash, and I'm glad Apple is putting the pressure on web designers to use things like HTML5 that don't suck like Flash does. I'm currently doing some online training for my job, and the system they use is Flash-based. Yesterday, in the course of going through three videos of under 10 minutes apiece, Flash crashed repeatedly. In fact, during the 2nd video it crashed THREE TIMES. What utter crap!

If I really need it, I can get it. I just haven't needed it that bad yet.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Any stock app that comes with the iPad. Remember, Apple didn't write any of the apps you are quoting below (hell, even the calculator built into iOS sucks.

Really?!? How so?

The wheelie thing to pick from drop downs is childish,

Wheelie thing? I don't even know what you're talking about there.

and everything else about the device is childish (including the "My child's first camera" that will give you excellent pictures for the 1990s).

Ummm... Not sure what you're talking about here either. The camera app works just fine, and takes some pretty good pictures. If you want a whole lot of control over it instead of point and shoot, there are a ton of "enhanced" camera apps.

BTW, I've heard people bitching and moaning about the stock Android camera app, saying that it's so slow that by the time it's launched you don't get a picture of what you wanted to take a picture of any more.

Yes. It feels like Microsoft Bob's implementation of Mail.

Um, OK. How so? It's clean, fast, and does everything I want.

Exactly the same, except it doesn't support Flash, so no industry standard website will run.

Nick, Flash is not an industry standard. It's a closed, proprietary system of just the sort you like to rail on all the time.

It's also been a LONG time since I visited a site that didn't work on the iPhone/iPad. Most everyone has realized that it's a good idea to write your site such that it works for the largest audience possible, so Flash is going the way of the dodo bird.

OBTW, while I was looking for Android versions of apps, I came across this:

Mobile Flash Fail: Weak Android Player Proves Jobs Right

When Flash for Android is good, it’s great, but when it’s bad, it can make even the harshest Apple critic want to e-mail Steve Jobs an apology video playing in HTML 5.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Note that I still have my nomad. It works, years later.

My iPod Touch? Had it for a little over a year before it crapped out.

Meh... There's a distribution curve for failures on any device. I have two iPhones, an iPad, several iPods, two MacBook Pros, several Powerbooks, and several older desktop Macs. They all work, with probably the nearest thing to an exception being the 2nd-newest laptop. It just barely "works" but I think it's having some hardware failures. There's a reason it's collecting dust now.

Oh, and I do have an old iPod Shuffle that doesn't work. Not surprising, since I found it on the ground in the parking lot of a truck stop, not working. I figured I'd take it apart at some point.

 

[EdFred]

I bought an iPad on day one not because I like Apple.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahainfinity


Dude, there was stuff that was out that would do what you wanted before the iPad (display approach plates), it just wasn't made by Apple. I know, because I have one, and they were out for a while before I got it. But *gasp* it ran on a Viliv!

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Hahahahahahahahahahahahainfinity

Dude, there was stuff that was out that would do what you wanted before the iPad (display approach plates), it just wasn't made by Apple. I know, because I have one, and they were out for a while before I got it. But *gasp* it ran on a Viliv!

What the hell is a Viliv?

I *never* saw anything when I was looking that was even usable until the Garmin 696, and that was just too damn expensive for a one-trick pony.

 

[zaitcev]

What the hell is a Viliv?

This reminds me how one guy overheard a talk of two IBMers at a conference about Cray-1. One asked "what the hell is Cray"... Other said: "dunno, a big mini apparently" "think it's faster than 3033?" "doubt it".

Edit: Amazing Vilivs are, they IMHO always were undershooting the market, and constrained by the software (e.g. Windows 2000 on an UMPC, seriously?). Asus always was head an shoulders in understanding of the market and innovation.

 

[denverpilot]

Dude, there was stuff that was out that would do what you wanted before the iPad (display approach plates), it just wasn't made by Apple. I know, because I have one, and they were out for a while before I got it. But *gasp* it ran on a Viliv!

I looked at those. I balked at the price tag and the fear that it wouldn't have very good support from the manufacturer after seeing their hokey website (back then, haven't looked lately).

And I built my own ChartCase machine out of a Panasonic ToughBook long before ForeFlight was available...

So I might understand you giving Kent a hard time, but there were folks out here who had those "other things" and decided the iPad looked a lot more useful. If the iPad hadn't come along, the Android tablet would have also looked more useful than lugging around a full-blown tablet PC.

MSFT was also really screwing up their support for tablets inbetween XP and Win 7 with Vista... it was a really awful experience to try to actually run those things.

What was obvious was that a device that was designed to be a tablet and not a full-blown computer, but had enough horsepower to run real applications, was needed. The "OLPC" project PC market had a number of players come and go without catching on, as well as the tiny handheld PCs and folks like Motion Computing, because reloading Windows on a machine with no keyboard pretty much sucks.

Netbooks are another niche that came out with processors that weren't powerful enough during a time when hardware prices were falling so fast that a month after you bought a netbook you could almost buy a full laptop for the same price. Now you can get them with graphics processors that can keep up with HD video content, but not at first. They were slooooow.

So... iPad hit the market timing pretty well, had a big manufacturer's name behind it for support, and made a new market niche for itself. Android has copied it. Both will be around until we all figure out what it is we want in our next form-factor for "computing everywhere", which is really where this is all headed -- and would be further along if it weren't for the physics of RF being what they are, and the politics.

Getting mobile bandwidth "everywhere" is tough. 802.11 has been an amazing shift in this, now it's time for the next system... something better than riding on the backs of the cellular carriers, but they're the ones with all the cash to pull it off. Interesting to watch.

 

[EdFred]

What the hell is a Viliv?

I *never* saw anything when I was looking that was even usable until the Garmin 696, and that was just too damn expensive for a one-trick pony.

http://www.aviationsafety.com/

I got the FL150, but the FL190 has a bigger screen. It runs XP and I've had no issues with it in over a year.

Yeah, it was a bit more expensive than an iPad, but it came with all the software I needed, I got it before they were out.

 

[SkyHog]

Yup - And I agree that the total number of apps available, on the scales that both Android and iOS are now, is irrelevant. They're both well into the hundreds of thousands, and it sounds like Android will pass iOS in another several months. Whooptee freakin' doo, who really cares as long as the apps you need and want are there.

You almost had it, until you said "The apps you need and want are there." Again, buying a device because someone else wrote software for it is dumb. The user contributed apps are merely a "nicety" or maybe a tie breaker, but buying it because someone else wrote some software is dumb, because they could stop developing it now, and you'll be stuck with a device with outdated apps. If Apple creates it, you know they're gonna be in business for a while, so that's a good choice.

Now, when it comes to the Palm Pre OS and their under-5000-apps selection, the total number becomes somewhat more relevant simply due to the much lower likelihood of being able to do anything you want with it.

I think you're right, but that's because of the sheer difference in app numbers. Unless all 5000 apps are written by Palm and do AMAZING things, the device is a dead fish.

That doesn't show market dominance at all. It mostly shows parity. The major exception to that is the "phones bought in the last 6 months," those being Oct-Dec and Jan-Mar. The vast majority of iPhone sales come in the June-August time frame when the new ones come out. So, those numbers don't surprise me in the least. They simply show that there are two big players who are pretty much kicking everyone else's butt right now.

Have a 10% leadership is not "Parity" by any stretch of the imagination, especially when talking about a market that has been penetrated as deeply as the smartphone market has been. I get your June-August argument, but we'll see what happens when the next quarter's data comes.

Not really. iOS has been around a lot longer, so there's a lot more growth potential for Android.

Fair enough. But this doesn't explain the LARGE disparity of total owners.

I dunno what you can do. But FlipBoard isn't available on Android either. How about VitalSource Bookshelf? I had two primary uses in mind for the iPad when I bought it, flying and textbooks. ForeFlight handles the former, VitalSource Bookshelf was required last semester for the latter. How about the ABC Player app, for ABC TV shows? It's pretty impressive, I wish other networks would follow suit.

FlipBoard: https://market.android.com/details?id=com.taptu.streams&feature=search_result (although admittedly, I don't read paper magazines anymore since I'm not 60 years old , but I hear that's a good app) (Price: $0)

VitalSource Bookshelf: Assuming this is an eBook reader, there are hundreds of apps that are good. I use Laputa: https://market.android.com/details?id=org.geometerplus.zlibrary.ui.android&feature=search_result (Price: $0)

ABC Player: Wouldn't even begin to know where to look for something like this. I can say, however, that ABC On Demand is available online using Flash. That means it can work on Android, but not on iOS. Also note, that there appears to be no ABC on iPhone yet either.

Frankly, as I'm googling these, none of them are showing up as available on Android. Those are just the first few I thought of, I'm not gonna go through all of my apps.

Wouldn't expect you to. Just note that I can find a cheaper, or free version of almost everything you're talking about that is available on Android. Oh, btw, what built in app do you use for Turn By Turn directions when you get to a city you've never been to before? How about to find a gas station when you're almost out of gas on the freeway in the middle of nowhere?

I don't think either looks "cartoonish" but it must be a preference thing, I think the iOS one is much better looking AND more functional - I've noticed that I am able to find apps on my screen fastest by their "cartoonish" icons. There's too much different crap floating around on that Android screen too.

The ability to have widgets which display useful information on the homescreen makes all the difference in the world. Want to see your email? Use the email widget. Calendar? Calendar Widget. Both at the same time? Hey, they're both there. Takes 4 taps or even more to get even close to that on iOS.

The iPhone was my first smartphone. I never had used MMS (hell, I still haven't), I never used exchange until my current job, which I started 2 months ago, and something like ForeFlight was completely unheard of on any platform at the time I bought the iPhone.

You never sent picture messages? You still don't? Really?? I (and, from my time at T-Mobile at the time of the iPhone launch, about 90% of people I talked to) used Picture Messaging all the time when the iPhone launched. When the iPhone first started getting jailbroken, do you know what the number one tech support call I got was? "How can I get SquirrelyMMS to work with T-Mobile?" Yep....most people got an iPhone and within minutes of ownership needed to find a solution for MMS.

When I bought the iPhone, what I really wanted was a cell phone that didn't suck. Go look on YouTube at the iPhone intro, and see how much excitement there was. Cell phones used to always be a royal pain in the ass. Nokia's UI's tended to be usable at least, but Motorola's were absolute crap. Everyone HATED their cell phones back then. When the iPhone rumors started, they spread like wildfire because Apple people loved their Apple devices (Macs and iPods at that point) but HATED their cell phones.

You wanted a cell phone that didn't suck and you got a Smart Phone, when all Smart Phones, iPhone included, took about 30 steps backwards in mobile voice clarity and battery life? I'll have you know that most people did not "hate" their mobile phones back then, people were actually quite happy with crap like the RAZR. However most people hated their Smart Phones back then because they were stuck with Windows Mobile or if they were business people, Blackberries. The true changer toward Smart Phones people liked was not the iPhone as you suspect, but the BlackBerry Pearl 8100. That phone was a PITA to use, but had so many features people loved them. I hated it because it broke every rule about phones, but not in a good way.

You hit the point that drove the iPhone home: Apple freaks bought them so that they could have a piece of fruit on the back of their PC and their PCS. If they hated their mobile phones, it was because they had Smart Phones (HTC and Blackberry were king back then, although Motorola's Blackjack was pretty popular too IIRC).

So, who better to make a cell phone than Apple? We knew that they would get it right, and my first iPhone was far and away a better phone than any cell phone I'd ever had - Plus, it could get my email, surf the web, be my iPod, and a few other useful things. I didn't even care about 3rd-party apps at that point, because the iPhone was WAY better than anything I'd had previously.

Again, except that it didn't do half of the stuff a "dumb phone" could do, and was using technology that was at least 5 years behind. Note that the same design model exists in today's Verizon iPhone: Rather than use the standard that Verizon has in all of their new phones, they chose not to go 4G. But people still bought them.

Ummmm... It does HTML, which is "the industry standard for web technology" just fine, always has.

If you hold the bar at HTML 1.0 and nothing higher, than I guess "technology" holds a very loose definition to you.

I'll assume you mean Flash. And it does do Flash, just not on Safari.

iOS's native browser doesn't handle Flash. In fact, no Apple App does.

It's all about the user experience. I don't miss Flash, and I'm glad Apple is putting the pressure on web designers to use things like HTML5 that don't suck like Flash does. I'm currently doing some online training for my job, and the system they use is Flash-based. Yesterday, in the course of going through three videos of under 10 minutes apiece, Flash crashed repeatedly. In fact, during the 2nd video it crashed THREE TIMES. What utter crap!

2 things:

1. HTML5 is the way of the future, yes. But the future is 2022, not 2011. Right now, we are using a model of HTML5 that will not be HTML5 until 2022, and we are using a non-standards compliant version of HTML (http://www.webmonkey.com/2008/09/html_5_won_t_be_ready_until_2022dot_yes__2022dot/)
2. You can turn off flash in Android if you don't want it. In fact, you can uninstall it if you really don't want it. But you don't have any options in iOS. You do what you're told, and you can't experiment. I prefer having the option of trying to view a site rather than not being allowed to view a site.

If I really need it, I can get it. I just haven't needed it that bad yet.

I suppose if you really enjoy going to mobile versions of your favorite websites from your 10 inch screen with a crappy resolution (1024x768 IIRC), rather than going to a full version of your favorite website from a 10 inch screen with a much higher resolution, without losing functionality due to not being able to view content that works on every other browser (Mac included), then there's no way you can see the problem with the iPad.

 

[EdFred]

I looked at those. I balked at the price tag and the fear that it wouldn't have very good support from the manufacturer after seeing their hokey website (back then, haven't looked lately).

And I built my own ChartCase machine out of a Panasonic ToughBook long before ForeFlight was available...

So I might understand you giving Kent a hard time, but there were folks out here who had those "other things" and decided the iPad looked a lot more useful. If the iPad hadn't come along, the Android tablet would have also looked more useful than lugging around a full-blown tablet PC.

MSFT was also really screwing up their support for tablets inbetween XP and Win 7 with Vista... it was a really awful experience to try to actually run those things.

What was obvious was that a device that was designed to be a tablet and not a full-blown computer, but had enough horsepower to run real applications, was needed. The "OLPC" project PC market had a number of players come and go without catching on, as well as the tiny handheld PCs and folks like Motion Computing, because reloading Windows on a machine with no keyboard pretty much sucks.

Netbooks are another niche that came out with processors that weren't powerful enough during a time when hardware prices were falling so fast that a month after you bought a netbook you could almost buy a full laptop for the same price. Now you can get them with graphics processors that can keep up with HD video content, but not at first. They were slooooow.

So... iPad hit the market timing pretty well, had a big manufacturer's name behind it for support, and made a new market niche for itself. Android has copied it. Both will be around until we all figure out what it is we want in our next form-factor for "computing everywhere", which is really where this is all headed -- and would be further along if it weren't for the physics of RF being what they are, and the politics.

Getting mobile bandwidth "everywhere" is tough. 802.11 has been an amazing shift in this, now it's time for the next system... something better than riding on the backs of the cellular carriers, but they're the ones with all the cash to pull it off. Interesting to watch.

Support has been pretty good. Called them saying I had a couple suggestions, and I got a call back that same afternoon, and talked at length with him about them.