Sad day in Jackson Hole

Interesting, how does it sense boost pressure when bypassing? How does it sense vacuum while producing boost?:dunno:

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My guess is the vacuum /boost hose was connected to the intake manifold somewhere close to the port runners..:confused:

I should work very similar to the old Shelby Spearco / RotoMaster turbo aftermarket turbo kits... They called them " priority valves".. I am sure you have seen then before..

I am not really sure since he had removed all the vacuum diaphrams / linkages and installed a heavy duty push/ pull cable.

In fact it was a mixture venier cable set up like this....

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/ap/controls_00mixture/faacontrols.php
 
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My guess is the vacuum /boost hose was connected to the intake manifold somewhere close to the port runners..:confused:

I should work very similar to the old Shelby Spearco / RotoMaster turbo aftermarket turbo kits... They called them " priority valves".. I am sure you have seen then before..

I am not really sure since he had removed all the vacuum diaphrams / linkages and installed a heavy duty push/ pull cable.

In fact it was a mixture venier cable set up like this....

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/ap/controls_00mixture/faacontrols.php

Huh uhh, the vacuum sensor would have to be double deck referenced, both below the the blower and above it between it and the butterfly plates or have a MAS vs Throttle demand discrepancy relay. To make it a safety bypass is simple, to make it a tuned operation function is more complex, made even more complex by variations in altitude. That's why he ended up going Venier control most likely. The system isn't elegant enough to deal with it well automatically. To do it well requires FADEC.

I just can't see this system as superior to turbos.
 
Huh uhh, the vacuum sensor would have to be double deck referenced, both below the the blower and above it between it and the butterfly plates or have a MAS vs Throttle demand discrepancy relay. To make it a safety bypass is simple, to make it a tuned operation function is more complex, made even more complex by variations in altitude. That's why he ended up going Venier control most likely. The system isn't elegant enough to deal with it well automatically. To do it well requires FADEC.

I just can't see this system as superior to turbos.

Agreed..... And you lose almost 30 horsepower at the crank just to spin it...:redface:

I have a pretty clear picture of it in that Flicker account... Can anyone computer savvy log into it and get a screen shot and post it here... ? :dunno:
 
Agreed..... And you lose almost 30 horsepower at the crank just to spin it...:redface:

I have a pretty clear picture of it in that Flicker account... Can anyone computer savvy log into it and get a screen shot and post it here... ? :dunno:

Give me your Flickr name and I would be able to get something.
 
Give me your Flickr name and I would be able to get something.


Done..... Look for a PM...

Better then that, once in , see if you can change the setting from private to available for anyone to view. Since the NTSB had released the factual, there is no reason to keep them from the public..
 
So they haven't paid you for the work you did but they want to fine you for...a memorial to the deceased?

The Nanny is completely out of control.
 
So they haven't paid you for the work you did but they want to fine you for...a memorial to the deceased?

The Nanny is completely out of control.

Indeed. What a remarkably callous and disconnected way to treat a volunteer Citizen. The State is absolutely out of control. As a servicemember, I am ashamed of the way some of our federal alphabet soups behave when interacting with the citizenry. :mad2:
 
Indeed. What a remarkably callous and disconnected way to treat a volunteer Citizen. The State is absolutely out of control. As a servicemember, I am ashamed of the way some of our federal alphabet soups behave when interacting with the citizenry. :mad2:

Just a couple quick questions because now I am confused....

Should some people should be given special treatment over others because of who they are or what they do?

Or should everyone be treated the same?
 
Just a couple quick questions because now I am confused....

Should some people should be given special treatment over others because of who they are or what they do?

Or should everyone be treated the same?

Similarly perplexed (but perhaps not surprised)...

Not paying for (requested) services rendered is shameful.

Fining for littering is not.
 
Similarly perplexed (but perhaps not surprised)...

Not paying for (requested) services rendered is shameful.

Fining for littering is not.

The "littering" is staying...... And if they follow through, I will take the jail time instead......

I am an old person now,,,, The up side to jail is free meals, free medical, free legal,free housing etc etc....... Bring it on....:rolleyes:

Besides ,it was a NON violent crime... Obama will commute my sentence..:yes::D
 
The "littering" is staying...... And if they follow through, I will take the jail time instead......

I am an old person now,,,, The up side to jail is free meals, free medical, free legal,free housing etc etc....... Bring it on....:rolleyes:

Besides ,it was a NON violent crime... Obama will commute my sentence..:yes::D

Old dude in jail isn't that bad of a gig really...:rofl:

But you could have (still) replaced the PVC with wood and bypass the issue. Also a stone cairn would be acceptable. It's the plastic that's the issue. If you replace it with a natural material marker and send in the evidence, this will go away.
 
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The "littering" is staying...... And if they follow through, I will take the jail time instead......

I am an old person now,,,, The up side to jail is free meals, free medical, free legal,free housing etc etc....... Bring it on....:rolleyes:

Besides ,it was a NON violent crime... Obama will commute my sentence..:yes::D

I appreciate a man of principal.
 
Ok Guys and Gals....

I have several hundred pics now loaded in my new puter and hopefully I can attach them to my posts to compliment my description of the sequence of events that took the lives of two humans....

This post is a test to see if I can attach pics...
 

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So you think he lost the final drive belt and that event disabled the mechanical linkage for the bypass, so he was restricted to the airflow between the rotors giving him idle power? Could be. Is the default of the bypass open or closed or will it just stay in place?
 
So you think he lost the final drive belt and that event disabled the mechanical linkage for the bypass, so he was restricted to the airflow between the rotors giving him idle power? Could be. Is the default of the bypass open or closed or will it just stay in place?

That is EXACTLY what happened... The belt was so stressed that when it broke, the kinetic energy threw the belt into the linkage / cable and jammed the bypass valve closed.....

Several things happened in a split second......

1-The motor instantly gained 30 HP, which is why the witnesses hear the motor rev up for a second.. The prop governor cannot react that fast to add pitch to slow down the revs.

2- Then is when to idle,, the construction worker stated that... My hangar mate with the RV-6 heard that... It came past me idling... I /we found dirt in the throat of the fuel injector and part ways up the intake tubes of the motor. Motor was running at 610 rpm at impact.

Also, the NTSB gals report reads exactly like the web page description of the G3I site... I don't know if she just used the web page as a narrative or spoke in depth with the owner of G3I to get the same words... I had to explain to Zoe how a supercharger works and it would be a slim chance of her mentioning Hi Helix rotors... I "thing she reported the supercharger had 4 lobe rotors,,, my pics show them as three lobe rotors.

I am the one to use heat to dissemble the charger since the case was deformed by ground impact and with any scroll type rotors, they need to rotate to remove them from the assembly.

The original plane had three push pull cables.. One for the throttle, one for the mixture and one for the prop.. All three has a light blue sheathe covering their outer casing.. The new one that controlled the bypass valve and a red knob similar to a mixture cable but it's casing was black...

I would like to download the hundreds of pics I have so all I need to do is reference a certain pic# and you guys can view them...

As it is I can only attach 4 pics with each posting so I will add the most important ones... I have had several guys try to log into my Flickr site but for some reason it rejects all attempts....

First pic is of the supercharger as it hangs from the wreckage as I bought it into my secure hangar for the NTSB investigation... Notice it had 2 cables still attached.. One is the throttle cable for the fuel injector, the other one is is for the custom / manual bypass valve modification...

Second pic is another view of that cable /connection.

Third pic is of the panel and a rats nest of twisted wires..... Notice there are three blue sheathed cables and one black jacketed cable... Also notice how Russ had labeled all his wires.... There is no doubt he was very anal in his construction during the build of this RV-7.....

All I can figure is he wanted total control of the bypass valve so he might gain a couple of more HP out of the motor... Use racers think like that, we would sell the wife and kids for another 5 HP....

Fourth pic shows a image of the 3GI logo on the wreckage.... I have been told by several people that N820RV was the prototype/ demo / display plane for the supercharger, ignition and fuel delivery systems... The owner /guy at 3GI was completely honest with me when he called me several times to discuss what I had seen / Uncovered etc etc... He is just human and trying to keep his business viable and he might have told Zoe the glamor parts of his aftermarket stuff.... He HAD to have known that Russ had removed the vacuum /automatic bypass set up and installed the manual cable. I even pointed that out to Zoe several times, but for some strange reason that important fact was left out of the "factual " NTSB final report.. You guys /gals can draw your own conclusions...:rolleyes:
 

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What does that alternator look like? 28hp requires a lot of tension on a 6 poly belt.
 

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I don't know if it's just me, but none of the pictures are finishing loading, are they huge files? It looks in the thumbnails to be exploded?


I am a computer dummy, but I am pretty sure they are huge files so people can load them, and then click on them to blow them up so they can see a knats ass from 50 feet away....

I am a "full disclosure" kinda guy....:rolleyes:
 
I don't get it, if there was an obvious cause of the engine failure wouldn't the NTSB report have said so?
 
Do you think the NTSB is going to get involved in a quagmire on an experiemental?
 
Do you think the NTSB is going to get involved in a quagmire on an experiemental?

Why is it a quagmire? There is either a probable cause of the engine failure, or there isn't. If the answer is obvious, I would expect the NTSB to say, "engine failure caused by xxx," not "engine failure for undetermined reasons."
 
Well, looks like it stayed together until the impact.

I should mention that both Micro V belts were found in the impact crater.. Both were broken, both were taken away by the NTSB gal for "further" examination...

The NTSB also took his shoulder harness bracket that clips into the seat belt... We could not tell if it failed under overload or was not fastened.. We guessed he removed it so he could reach over to her side to get better leverage on the bypass knob and try to pull on it to unjam it...

He was ripped apart at the waist and thrown through the roof and took the top cowling with him.. he was 15 -20 feet in front of the plane.. She stayed in it since her belts worked but she was impaled on the throttle. mixture and prop governor knobs/ stub shafts...

They covered her up with a sheet and was going to leave her in the wreckage till the NTSB showed up the next morning but the park service have tracking collars on alot of Grizzly bears out here and one of the most famous ( 399) and her three cubs were being tracked, and they were making a bee line straight for the wreckage.. When they got within a mile or so, the ranger make a decision to cut her out of the wreckage with an axe before the the bears could eat her..... You can see the massive chop marks /slashes on her side of the fuselage...
 

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Why is it a quagmire? There is either a probable cause of the engine failure, or there isn't. If the answer is obvious, I would expect the NTSB to say, "engine failure caused by xxx," not "engine failure for undetermined reasons."
There's a lot of stuff I'm used to seeing in accident dockets, even those for low-profile experimentals, that seems to be missing from this one. Don't have a clue why, and I'm not going to guess. :rolleyes:

Nauga,
and his paperwork drill
 
I should mention that both Micro V belts were found in the impact crater.. Both were broken, both were taken away by the NTSB gal for "further" examination...

The NTSB also took his shoulder harness bracket that clips into the seat belt... We could not tell if it failed under overload or was not fastened.. We guessed he removed it so he could reach over to her side to get better leverage on the bypass knob and try to pull on it to unjam it...

He was ripped apart at the waist and thrown through the roof and took the top cowling with him.. he was 15 -20 feet in front of the plane.. She stayed in it since her belts worked but she was impaled on the throttle. mixture and prop governor knobs/ stub shafts...

They covered her up with a sheet and was going to leave her in the wreckage till the NTSB showed up the next morning but the park service have tracking collars on alot of Grizzly bears out here and one of the most famous ( 399) and her three cubs were being tracked, and they were making a bee line straight for the wreckage.. When they got within a mile or so, the ranger make a decision to cut her out of the wreckage with an axe before the the bears could eat her..... You can see the massive chop marks /slashes on her side of the fuselage...
Terrible. I also saw a video posted on liveleak of an independent reporter filming the recent MH17 crash. Bodies everywhere, burned, decapitated, severed limbs, children, many naked (force of explosive decompression rips clothes right off), some still strapped in seats. Horrifying. Sorry you had to see these folks. The Malaysian 17 victims came down from 30K+ feet though, amazing the damage that can be done even from a couple hundred feet. At least you can say they didn't suffer.
 
Terrible. I also saw a video posted on liveleak of an independent reporter filming the recent MH17 crash. Bodies everywhere, burned, decapitated, severed limbs, children, many naked (force of explosive decompression rips clothes right off), some still strapped in seats. Horrifying. Sorry you had to see these folks. The Malaysian 17 victims came down from 30K+ feet though, amazing the damage that can be done even from a couple hundred feet. At least you can say they didn't suffer.


Ok guys....

I "think" I have adjusted the settings on Flickr to let anyone see some of the pics... I have about three times as many now on my new puter....

If this link doesn't work, let me know and I will fiddle with the settings some more...

https://www.flickr.com/gp/sad_day/Bjt4XT
 
Why is it a quagmire? There is either a probable cause of the engine failure, or there isn't. If the answer is obvious, I would expect the NTSB to say, "engine failure caused by xxx," not "engine failure for undetermined reasons."

Your expectations are not on their agenda.
 
Your expectations are not on their agenda.

You mean my expectations that they will follow the law, right?

49 USC 1131: "The National Transportation Safety Board shall investigate . . . and establish the facts, circumstances, and cause or probable cause..."

49 CFR 845.40 "The [accident] report will set forth the facts, conditions and circumstances relating to the accident and the probable cause thereof..."

So my "expectation" is that if there is a probable cause, they will say what it is, as they are required to do by law. That is their agenda. The fact that they did give a reason for the engine failure means that in their opinion, there was no cause for the failure that was more probable than not.
 
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You mean my expectations that they will follow the law, right?

No, your expectation is that it will be treated as an either/or situation when there is an easy out by saying maybe.
 
No, your expectation is that it will be treated as an either/or situation when there is an easy out by saying maybe.
I don't follow. What do you mean by either/or situation or "maybe"?
 
I don't get it, if there was an obvious cause of the engine failure wouldn't the NTSB report have said so?

here ya go, you assume one thing while the reality is substantially different
 
not what I said at all

Well I have no idea what you said because you're being very cryptic. I've asked you three or four times now what you meant, and you're unable or unwilling to explain. So I'm going to assume you have nothing to say.
 
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