Royally P.O.'d at an A&P/IA

Discussion in 'Maintenance Bay' started by bluerooster, Dec 13, 2015.

  1. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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    That doesn't matter, A&Ps get the blame anyway.
     
  2. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    I'm doing a bit of a panel makeover and found:

    Speaker soldered to a white wire (3 inches long)

    Butt spliced to a green wire (3 inches long)

    A quick disconnect to another green (3 feet long)

    Butt spliced to a white/green stripe (3 feet long)

    Butt spliced to a white/blue stripe (2 feet long)

    Finally terminates into the audio panel connector.

    :rofl::mad2::vomit:
     
  3. wsuffa

    wsuffa Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I had an avionics shop do something similar when first installing a Garmin 430. They then mashed the pins trying to insert it into the tray. Costing more time, money and aggravation later. And one that committed theft when the airplane was in for some panel work by swapping out the remote gyro in the back of the plane with a "loser" that had to be rebuilt later for $1000+.

    I've also had some great shops work on the plane.

    Rule of thumb is to know everything you can about your plane, and to instruct the shop to not recowl it until you've done a careful inspection after maintenance.
     
  4. N801BH

    N801BH Touchdown! Greaser! Gone West

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    :yikes::hairraise:..

    I have heard horror stories about (less then honest) repair shops..

    Building and maintaining an experimental and holding a repairmens cert for it is priceless...:)
     
  5. wsuffa

    wsuffa Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Yep. If I own again, it will most likely be an EAB.

    The worst part of the gyro issue was that it "lost it" on an IFR takeoff from Durango. Not a great area for a gyro to go TU. It did stabilize once we climbed, but that would have been something impossible to prove & hold the shop accountable later. We discovered the switch when we compared serial numbers and dates of manufacture later.
     
  6. N801BH

    N801BH Touchdown! Greaser! Gone West

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    In my book, that would be damn close to a attempted murder charge from a prosecuting attorney...:mad2:
     
  7. mkosmo

    mkosmo Pattern Altitude

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    Negligent manslaughter at worst... But you know they'd just get civil fines from the FAA for failure to document it if it even came to that lol
     
  8. kontiki

    kontiki Cleared for Takeoff

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    I believe with a lot of old airplane, new owner stories the blame is shared between mechanics and the string of owners. Most owners understand very little about aircraft configuration management, which is half of the story. At an airline there is usually an engineering department, records departments and a technical publications department devoted to the function. That's what "airworthiness" is too; being in the approved configuration.
     
  9. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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    So you give all A&Ps a bad name for a avionics shop's F---up.
     
  10. N801BH

    N801BH Touchdown! Greaser! Gone West

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    Interesting....

    I thought an A&P can build harnesses??:dunno:
     
  11. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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    They can, but most won't because they do not want the liability of smoking the avionics.

    And your speaker wire is a prime example of what I find in most old aircraft. That is why I simply remove all of it and rewire, using new teflon coated wire and C/B's
     
  12. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Teflon or Tefzel?

    Avionics really aren't that difficult. Does take reading and I draw my own interconnect drawings
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2015
  13. yetti

    yetti Line Up and Wait

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    Best guess is rag stuffed in one of the fuel lines to keep dirt out. Second guess would be parts of a diaphragm of a mechanical fuel pump. The fuel screens are listed on the Annual / 100 hour inspection.

    Fuel Servo Denver Pilot. Used on fuel injected lycomings. works on differential of air pressure. No idea why it is called a servo.

    Brake reservoir had a 3/8 vs. 1/4 hose on it. So all the fluid leaked out and got on the carpet.
     
  14. GlennAB1

    GlennAB1 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    And not a speck of credit for recycling.
     
  15. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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    OK customer has 15k GPS moving map, coupled to the Autopilot, plus 2 new solid state Coms, and an audio panel to install, Just trays and racks, you Screw it up, you get to buy new. Do you want the job? You stand to make 2000 for the instal. risk doesn't play good odds.
     
  16. kyleb

    kyleb Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    ...Customer has $60K Bonanza airframe with Continental motor which needs rebuilt - parts and machine work costs of $20k. Screw it up, the owner and his family die. You stand to make $5k on the job...
     
  17. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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    But when you hurt anyone with it, your the deep pocket. No lawyer is going to pass you by to get to Cessna or Piper.
     
  18. GlennAB1

    GlennAB1 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Or you do the work, make $5k, the owner does some undocumented maintenance, they all die, and you blamed.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2015
  19. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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    That's absolutely correct.. choose your jobs and customers carefully.

    My old PMI once told me, your only and best insurance is doing the job correctly, make the entry correctly, because I can't defend you to my supervisor when either is wrong. But don't worry about me and the FAA we can only take your certificate, the civil lawyer can take your house.

    and this month I found out how right he was.
     
  20. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking PoA Supporter

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    Not always. Do the job correctly, document it correctly, they can't place blame where it does not belong.
     
  21. weirdjim

    weirdjim En-Route

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    The Ark was built by amateurs, the Titanic was built by "professionals".
     
  22. petrolero

    petrolero Pattern Altitude

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    Yeah mechanics never make mistakes, including the one who left his plastic oil funnel to melt on top of my cylinders. He missed it. I missed it too. Plastic could have dripped on my turbo and caused who knows what. **** happens. I can't check everything they do, but I have learned the hard way to check what I can and ask probing questions about the stuff I can't. They catch a lot of things that I miss also. No one is perfect but there are some things you see that just make you wonder what a guy was thinking.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2015
  23. kmead

    kmead Line Up and Wait

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    I do anywhere from 1 to 2 prebuy son a week. I hate to say but the quality of the maintenance being done by a large number of shops in the world is horrible. All owners should try to learn as much about the maintenance needs of their aircraft.
     
  24. Bill Jennings

    Bill Jennings Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Paid a good bit to inspect the 1st two candidates and sent them away after finding the aircraft not as represented. Third plane was the charm, but yes, we did pay a good amount to check out all three.
     
  25. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

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    I found a shop light under my passenger rudder pedals once after annuals. I was wondering why I couldn't make that right turn. Couldn't see the damn thing during my preflight.

    Good news is now I have a really nice shop light in my garage at home.
     
  26. N801BH

    N801BH Touchdown! Greaser! Gone West

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    Ya ever noticed how aircraft mechanics NEVER engrave their names on their tools.... :no::no::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:.....:redface:
     
  27. bluerooster

    bluerooster Pattern Altitude

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    Exactly. And the usuall areas are nice and clean.
     
  28. bluerooster

    bluerooster Pattern Altitude

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    Good Lord! I hadn't expected 5 pages in such a short time.

    Well, I removed the worst of the seat rails today, and inspected the skin underneath. I havn't bothered to order the new rails yet, as I didn't know if I needed to scrap the airplane or not. There are 44 rivits that old the rail in, and 4 others that need to be removed in order to get to one of them. :rolleyes:
    After I got all but the last one punched out, I decided to take a pic.

    What I found under the rail, after removal was both surprizing, and relieving. The skin is in good shape. :D So I have new rails comming.

    No Pizz tubes. Mabe that's the reason? :yikes:
    Now prior to purchase, I had inspected all the likely areas for corrosion, and found none, Spar carry through looks good, rear spar attach points look good, Even the area around the battery looked better than most. Had no reason at that time to remove seats, and pull out the carpet.

    I've owned, and mantained several Cherokees in the past, and have a pretty good idea about what to look for. And seat tracks are pretty far down on the list.
     

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  29. N801BH

    N801BH Touchdown! Greaser! Gone West

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    Pic # 4...... HOLY siht.....:yikes::yikes::yikes::hairraise::hairraise:
     
  30. GlennAB1

    GlennAB1 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    That's ate up. Exfoliation. Alloy going back to ore state...
     
  31. bluerooster

    bluerooster Pattern Altitude

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    Now for the $10 question. What causes intergranular corrosion, which, if left un-checked, leads to exfoliation?
     
  32. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Touchdown! Greaser!

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    ....and why can an A&P "not" overhaul an internally supercharged engine?
     
  33. GlennAB1

    GlennAB1 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Anyone can look up intergranular corrosion, but, as I recall there's not a single simple answer. It can be due it improper heat treat or alloy composition and is triggered by electrochemical attack, Maybe. I winged that.
     
  34. GlennAB1

    GlennAB1 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    You have to take manufacturers requirements into account, but, as I understand the FAR's, an A&P mechanic can do anything he has been properly trained and has tooling to do. Can an A&P assemble RB211 modules? Not if he isn't trained and doesn't have tooling. Can an A&P mechanic perform a JT8-D PS4/Drain boss UT inspection? Only if he's been trained by Pratt & Whitney and has the proper tooling.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2015
  35. GlennAB1

    GlennAB1 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Good luck selling them, or getting a decent amount, if you engrave them.
     
  36. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Ha! I saw corrosion like that on a 2008 jet's aileron sector (where the fuselage cables meet the wing cables). Corroded out just that bad at each hi-lok where the cable horn is attached to the tube/bearing assembly. It was a whopping 7 years old and it looked like it was scrap 2 years ago.
     
  37. N801BH

    N801BH Touchdown! Greaser! Gone West

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    Ha.....:rofl::rofl::rofl:..


    Virtually every A&P and IA I know has told me ...the very first thing they teach ( quietly suggest) in A&P school is to NEVER put your Id on any tool in case one gets left in a plane and causes a crash......
     
  38. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Touchdown! Greaser!

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    no worries....HF tools don't bring much. :goofy:
     
  39. GlennAB1

    GlennAB1 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    I'm a product of the Air Force. Tools were marked and accounted for. Some of my tools are marked, I quit when I found out no one else (hardly) marked theirs. I have a fine mix of Snap-On, Mac, and Craftsman, vintage Craftsman are good tools. Thank you.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2015
  40. N801BH

    N801BH Touchdown! Greaser! Gone West

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    Now you have changed your story on why not to mark them....:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: