Round-the-world teen sailor feared lost at sea

Not everybody shares the same notions of risk management, but the core basis of my risk management is that I will weigh risks relative to what I can gain from success. In my mind, there is simply no such thing as a risk undertaken without corresponding reward to justify it. When I can minimize the risk as much as I can, enough so that I can shrink it until the reward outweighs it, then I'll take that risk.

When I hear about somebody undertaking a life-risking adventure, I understand that such a challenge can have reward to justify it. I understand minimizing any unnecessary risk through planning, through training, though preparation and equipment. I understand picking the time of year, the route, the craft, etc, that maximizes your chances.

When I hear about a 16-year-old taking a life-risking adventure, my internal optimizer starts optimizing. It says "why 16? why not wait until 21? that's 5 more years of experience, of education, of maturity." It sees somebody taking on a challenge with an unusual and unnecessary auxiliary risk, an artificial one not inherent to the mission, and wonders what the corresponding reward is to justify that risk.

So what's the reward for taking on such an adventure at 16 when it could just as easily be done at 21?

The answer is "to set a record", "to gain glory", "to get attention", "to get a TV deal". I don't perceive these rewards as sufficient in value to justify the added risk. I don't value them. I don't understand how people can value those, that strikes me as superficial. I expect a teenager to get these priorities wrong, and that's why it's a parent's job to have their head screwed on straight and provide that guidance.
-harry
 
So what's the reward for taking on such an adventure at 16 when it could just as easily be done at 21?

-harry

Why go at 21? How about 26 wouldn't 5 more years of experiance reduce the risk? Maybe wait untill 31... or better yet 36 even better 41 or still 46.....

When is ready, ready?

Someone with experiance needs to make the decision, someone close to her, who cares about her, who has experiance with sailing. And that is who made the decision. Who are you to second guess?
 
Why go at 21? How about 26 wouldn't 5 more years of experiance reduce the risk? Maybe wait untill 31... or better yet 36 even better 41 or still 46.....

When is ready, ready?

Someone with experiance needs to make the decision, someone close to her, who cares about her, who has experiance with sailing. And that is who made the decision. Who are you to second guess?


Good point. BUT,..... I CAN tell you what the appropriate age is.

When a person comes to the realization that sailing around the World ALONE is simply a stunt and/or stupiud. Then they hold proof of good decision-making. Noone with good decision making skills would chance such an endeavour alone. There's your answer. I can drive drunk and get away with it,...for awhile. But because I got away with it does'nt make it right. Let alone support someone 16 yrs of age to try it.
 
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I'm going out on a limb here, and saying that I think Henning was being dramatic to make a point...

I'll go a little further and say that I think that if Henning were underway near Abby when the distress call went out, he would have been the first to respond, and nothing would have stopped him from rescuing her.

He probably would have yelled at her after he rescued her, though.

-Rich
 
At 16, I could be talked into just about ANYTHING. Now, not so much.

I once had a high-school teacher tell me that he could probably make it around the world on a surf board. He also grew up and lived in Nashville,Tn and had absolutly NO ocean-going experience. Go figure.
 
I think the parents need to catch just as much if not more yelling. And maybe re-prioritize their family value.
 
i usually figure that just because i wouldn't do something doesnt mean that others shouldn't. i occasionally try to do things just to say i've done them. nothing like sailing around the world though. i can see how it would be pretty exciting to sail solo around the world. just like I personally would get a lot of self satisfaction out of flying the atlantic solo. of course it would be a pretty major risk. better than sitting on my couch all day.
 
I don't mind admitting that I second-guess (condemn is probably a better word) the parents for approving and/or promoting such a risky event for their kid. The biggest single factor in waiting another five or ten years is (hopefully) that somebody with better judgment than those two yahoos will provide a better risk analysis.

Why go at 21? How about 26 wouldn't 5 more years of experiance reduce the risk? Maybe wait untill 31... or better yet 36 even better 41 or still 46.....

When is ready, ready?

Someone with experiance needs to make the decision, someone close to her, who cares about her, who has experiance with sailing. And that is who made the decision. Who are you to second guess?
 
Boy, with that kind of attitude, nobody would have ever climbed Everest. Wilbur and Orville probably would have stuck with bicycles - I mean, what was their expected reward for building a powered airplane?
 
im going to go out on a limb here and say that if Henning has any children, he doesnt know about them :ihih:
I'm going to go out a little further on the limb and say that Henning probably has children and he doesn't know about them.
 
Dunno. That if things went perfectly they might live long enough to graduate from high-school?

Boy, with that kind of attitude, nobody would have ever climbed Everest. Wilbur and Orville probably would have stuck with bicycles - I mean, what was their expected reward for building a powered airplane?
 
Why go at 21? How about 26 wouldn't 5 more years of experiance reduce the risk? Maybe wait untill 31... or better yet 36 even better 41 or still 46.....
If 16 is okay, then why not 14? 12? 10? Why not 8?

These are fallacious arguments, of course, they attempt to deny the existence of the concept of "enough".
Who are you to second guess?
A person who has lived in the world, been 16, been the age her father is now, taken a lot of classes in probability theory, given a lot of thought to risk management, and who can apply that knowledge and experience without the distraction of being broke and needing my daredevil kids to bring me a TV payday.

In short, I'm yet another over-opinionated pilot with a keyboard. :)
-harry
 
If 16 is okay, then why not 14? 12? 10? Why not 8?

These are fallacious arguments, of course, they attempt to deny the existence of the concept of "enough".

A person who has lived in the world, been 16, been the age her father is now, taken a lot of classes in probability theory, given a lot of thought to risk management, and who can apply that knowledge and experience without the distraction of being broke and needing my daredevil kids to bring me a TV payday.

In short, I'm yet another over-opinionated pilot with a keyboard. :)
-harry

At least your arguments are well-stated and based on logic, which is why I tend to value your opinion even when I vehemently disagree with it.

-Rich
 
nope, different Buck.

Sadly that was a different generation Max. Rinker's dad had probably been in either the Pacific or Europe when he was 18 fighting a war. 15 and 17 would've seemed plenty old to do the simple task of flying across the country and back.
 
Has anyone here read the book "Flight of Passage" by Rinker Buck?
As I recall, it's a story of two teenage boys who risk their lives flying low and slow across the US in a Cub without a waterbag to keep them safe.
-harry
 
As I recall, it's a story of two teenage boys who risk their lives flying low and slow across the US in a Cub without a waterbag to keep them safe.
-harry

But did they file a flight plan? That's the real question.

-Rich
 
But did they file a flight plan? That's the real question.
No waterbag, no flight plans, no Garmin 696 with in-flight satellite Nexrad, no Bose headsets, no BRS ... it's amazing they escaped with their lives.
-harry
 
Someone with experiance needs to make the decision, someone close to her, who cares about her, who has experiance with sailing. And that is who made the decision. Who are you to second guess?

If she needs someone else to make the decision, she's too young to go.
 
Someone with experiance needs to make the decision, someone close to her, who cares about her, who has experiance with sailing. And that is who made the decision. Who are you to second guess?
Are you saying that she was experienced enough to make the decision for herself? If that is so how will she be experienced enough when solo out at sea in the middle of an ocean to make decisions?
 
Are you saying that she was experienced enough to make the decision for herself? If that is so how will she be experienced enough when solo out at sea in the middle of an ocean to make decisions?

Abby made the decision when she was 13. Her father exercised his parental authority and held her back for three years until he agreed she was ready.

Or so the legend goes, at least. From Wikipedia:
A lifelong sailor, Sunderland said she had been preparing for her journey since age 13.[1] She trained in ocean sailing with experienced sailors[citation needed] and with her father Laurence Sunderland, who said he understood her determination when "It was a particularly rough day and her boat was rocking from gunnel to gunnel. ... I knew she was freezing cold, tired and hungry, and we'd been at it for, you know, 20 hours at that stage. I said, 'So Abby, are you ready to sail around the world now?' To which she replied, 'Where is my boat?'"[12]
-Rich
 
Dunno. That if things went perfectly they might live long enough to graduate from high-school?

What's so great about graduating from high-school? And it's that's the only thing you are worried about, I read somewhere that Abby was home schooled.... and there are a significant amount of home schoolers that earn graduate status when they are 16. (Don't know it Abby had)
 
If she needs someone else to make the decision, she's too young to go.

Are you saying that she was experienced enough to make the decision for herself? If that is so how will she be experienced enough when solo out at sea in the middle of an ocean to make decisions?

Abby made the decision when she was 13. Her father exercised his parental authority and held her back for three years until he agreed she was ready.

Or so the legend goes, at least. From Wikipedia:
A lifelong sailor, Sunderland said she had been preparing for her journey since age 13.[1] She trained in ocean sailing with experienced sailors[citation needed] and with her father Laurence Sunderland, who said he understood her determination when "It was a particularly rough day and her boat was rocking from gunnel to gunnel. ... I knew she was freezing cold, tired and hungry, and we'd been at it for, you know, 20 hours at that stage. I said, 'So Abby, are you ready to sail around the world now?' To which she replied, 'Where is my boat?'"[12]
-Rich

Thanks Rich,.
 
That's pretty high on the list of standard parenting goals, since it's a prerequisite for creating a minimally functional adult.

Say WHAT?

Gee, how do all the dropouts survive if they're not functional?

Not saying it's not a good goal, just that it's NOT a prerequisite for a good life.
 
i've known a few pretty high functioning high school dropouts. of course i've also known a few dopehead high school dropouts.
 
Say WHAT?

Gee, how do all the dropouts survive if they're not functional?

Not saying it's not a good goal, just that it's NOT a prerequisite for a good life.

Minimally functional is being sufficiently employed to maintain a household, transportation and other necessary life elements so as not to require parental subsidies. And these days, being a dropout is not a good path toward meeting these requirements. We can bat around anecdotal examples of successful and unsuccessful dropouts all day long, but overall, it isn't looking good at all for dropouts.
 
OK - But since the plane couldn't do anything (drop gear, etc) other than find the boat - I question the decision to launch an airplane that would cost that much. Alert mariners in the area (who should go look, render assistance, and submit a bill), sure.

I guess I'm saying I wouldn't launch an aircraft in this case. Passenger liner going down? Maybe, just to confirm location. Single sailor? Nope.

You don't understand, it's a freakin kid and we must protect the bleeding children. They needed to confirm condition to make sure the little blighter could wait a couple of days for a commercial vessel to get her, or did they need to send an aircraft carrier her way at flank speed to helo range to save her precious little soul....:incazzato::loco::vomit:

If it was me listed on that freaking EPIRB I guarantee I would be jury rigging a mast repair to get home.... or until a ship decided to they were passing close enough to come get me.
 
Minimally functional is being sufficiently employed to maintain a household, transportation and other necessary life elements so as not to require parental subsidies. And these days, being a dropout is not a good path toward meeting these requirements. We can bat around anecdotal examples of successful and unsuccessful dropouts all day long, but overall, it isn't looking good at all for dropouts.

Funny I know quite a few PHD's who can't support their family and many drop out that own houses.

lack of formal education <> minimally functional
 
Okay, this is how I see it.

It's not easy to sail a boat, and what Abby wanted to do would be a challenge even for seasoned sailors with many years of experience.

But one thing that seems undisputed is that Abby is a seasoned sailor with many years of experience. Apparently she's been sailing since she could walk, and had been preparing for this voyage in particular since she was 13. It's said (although obviously I have no idea whether it's true) that her father tested her skills for those years, and finally made the decision to allow her to undertake the voyage during an unusually challenging day of sailing, with him on board.

"Do you still want to sail around the world?" He's said to have asked. Abby's response reportedly was, "Where's my boat?"

I know little about Abby's sailing skills except that what she did accomplish was more than I expect I could. But one thing I haven't heard alleged is that her sailing skills were deficient.

-Rich

Sailing is so easy, I can teach anybody to do it in 2 days or less. There are tens of thousands of five year olds out there campaigning Optimist Dinghys competitively sailing throughout the world. As I say, I can teach you everything about sailing in 2 days. Seamanship on the other hand is a lifelong learning experience. I am saying this right here and now, he seamanship was deficient. She allowed her rig to break, boom, end of story, deficient seamanship. She was still dragging the rig when they spotted her WAAAYYYY BAD SEAMANSHIP!!!
 
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I'm sure lots of sailors can handle that ocean, but the ones I read about evidently aren't in that group. Whatever the perils and pitfalls may be, they seem to encounter them with regularity and with predictable results.


That's because "Had a nice sail" doesn't sell print or airtime. With a proper level of seamanship applied, you might not be comfortable, but you won't be in danger.
 
Funny I know quite a few PHD's who can't support their family and many drop out that own houses.

lack of formal education <> minimally functional

Uhh...maybe that's why I added the part about batting around anecdotal examples? Perhaps you missed it.


Adults ages 25 to 64 who worked at any time during the study period
earned an average of $34,700 per year. Average earnings ranged from $18,900 for high school dropouts to $25,900 for high school graduates, $45,400 for college graduates, and $99,300 for workers with professional degrees (M.D., J.D.,D.D.S., or D.V.M.).


 
The answer is "to set a record", "to gain glory", "to get attention", "to get a TV deal". I don't perceive these rewards as sufficient in value to justify the added risk. I don't value them. I don't understand how people can value those, that strikes me as superficial. I expect a teenager to get these priorities wrong, and that's why it's a parent's job to have their head screwed on straight and provide that guidance.
-harry


What about "Million dollar combined book and movie deal with residuals and DVD royalties."?
 
I'll go a little further and say that I think that if Henning were underway near Abby when the distress call went out, he would have been the first to respond, and nothing would have stopped him from rescuing her.

He probably would have yelled at her after he rescued her, though.

-Rich

You don't go out on a limb to say that. If can get there first, it is both my professional and moral duty as a seaman to rescue her. We won't talk about what I'd do to her once I got her on board, heck, I might even sell her to a Shiek in Dubai....
 
Boy, with that kind of attitude, nobody would have ever climbed Everest. Wilbur and Orville probably would have stuck with bicycles - I mean, what was their expected reward for building a powered airplane?

Are you kidding?!? They knew it would make them rich and famous. The longest ongoing lawsuit in the country if not the world was their patent suit against Glenn Curtis, and I'm not positive it's over.
 
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