Rough first flight

Joe Williamson

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Finally got in the air for my first lesson and it lasted all of 5 minutes. It was crazy windy and the instructor said that it wasn’t worth flying today because of the wind. It was white knuckle flying from take off to landing. The CFI did all of the flying because we had 25+ knot winds. I’ve gone flying with a buddy who has his own plane and am never nervous but wow this time really opened my eyes. Thoughts on training in turbulence?
 
Finally got in the air for my first lesson and it lasted all of 5 minutes. It was crazy windy and the instructor said that it wasn’t worth flying today because of the wind. It was white knuckle flying from take off to landing. The CFI did all of the flying because we had 25+ knot winds. I’ve gone flying with a buddy who has his own plane and am never nervous but wow this time really opened my eyes. Thoughts on training in turbulence?
Stay on the ground.
 
Finally got in the air for my first lesson and it lasted all of 5 minutes. It was crazy windy and the instructor said that it wasn’t worth flying today because of the wind. It was white knuckle flying from take off to landing. The CFI did all of the flying because we had 25+ knot winds. I’ve gone flying with a buddy who has his own plane and am never nervous but wow this time really opened my eyes. Thoughts on training in turbulence?

Who suggested it was a good idea to go on a first flight under such conditions?
 
Check the METAR’s and TAF before going to the lesson, if it’s more than let’s say 10 knots, reschedule (you can set your own limits). You cannot learn anything as a newbie when you’re being thrown around and it’s not really fun either (my opinion).
 
I'm going to add to the general consensus and say you shouldn't have even gone up in winds like that for a first flight. I am not sure what your instructor was attempting to prove, but I would be wondering about an instructor that didn't realize winds like that were a no-go for a first flight until the plane was airborne. Later, training in turbulence and high winds can make you a better pilot, if only because it helps you realize your limits with a (hopefully) competent pilot to help save your backside if you don't realize your limits until you're over your head.
 
Finally got in the air for my first lesson and it lasted all of 5 minutes. It was crazy windy and the instructor said that it wasn’t worth flying today because of the wind. It was white knuckle flying from take off to landing. The CFI did all of the flying because we had 25+ knot winds. I’ve gone flying with a buddy who has his own plane and am never nervous but wow this time really opened my eyes. Thoughts on training in turbulence?
Find a new instructor. Any good CFI knows not to take a new student on their first flight in conditions like that.
 
When your paying someone for their time and they're wasting yours, time and money go hand in hand. Not a stellar first impression on why they should continue being your cfi. Even if the closest metar said it was borderline, the windsock should have told him everything he needed to know. To continue with a students first flight is a good way to soil the students interest There's groundwork that hopefully was done so it wasn't a complete waste.

When flying small planes, weather will scrub a mission every time you have have something really important scheduled. Ask skychaser how many times her check ride was bumped for one reason or another. On a positive note, now you know where your comfort level is. So when the CFI says let's go, you can tell him what to do with his hat.
 
I don't agree it was a waste. The instructor and student already had scheduled time, drove to the airport, did a preflight briefing (hopefully), etc...so there was already a sunk cost. The student got experience with preflight procedures, starting the engine, taxiing, etc. Instead of being criticized for flying with the student on a windy day I would applaud the instructor for ending a lesson early when it became apparent the lesson was no longer productive.
 
I don't agree it was a waste. The instructor and student already had scheduled time, drove to the airport, did a preflight briefing (hopefully), etc...so there was already a sunk cost. The student got experience with preflight procedures, starting the engine, taxiing, etc. Instead of being criticized for flying with the student on a windy day I would applaud the instructor for ending a lesson early when it became apparent the lesson was no longer productive.

The lesson should have been about pre flight planning and making good decisions on the ground and stressing personal minimums, not “let’s see how a first timer handles 25kt winds nnmwwwahahah”.

My CFI did that to me early on. Did the preflight, startup, taxi…..CFI says “hhmmm, look at the tree tops, looking much windier than anticipated. Might be a good idea to fly another day”. MUCH better lesson learned at that stage of training.
 
I don't disagree with everyone else. That said, my first flight with my cfi was a windy day. About 20g25, but close enough to RW heading that the crosswind wasn't terrible. He told me it would be rough and not all that fun, but I said I'd been waiting 30 years for this let's go. I still loved it. Once we got up a couple thousand feet the bumps were manageable and we did get our first hour in. Windy on the ground doesn't always mean it's going to be turbulent at altitude. CFI may have been hoping it would be manageable higher and they wouldn't have to disappoint the student. I know I would've been heartbroken.
 
I had an instructor not want to fly because it was gusting to 16 kt a few degrees off runway i fired that instructor and called the school’s owner. Turns out he was the new chief instructor……
 
The lesson should have been about pre flight planning and making good decisions on the ground and stressing personal minimums, not “let’s see how a first timer handles 25kt winds nnmwwwahahah”.

My CFI did that to me early on. Did the preflight, startup, taxi…..CFI says “hhmmm, look at the tree tops, looking much windier than anticipated. Might be a good idea to fly another day”. MUCH better lesson learned at that stage of training.

We are only hearing one side is the story. I don't think it happened like that but you are certainly free to use your imagination to make the instructor sound like an idiot. After all that's POA's favorite pastime.
 
We are only hearing one side is the story. I don't think it happened like that but you are certainly free to use your imagination to make the instructor sound like an idiot. After all that's POA's favorite pastime.
We don’t need the CFI’s side of it, the student has 5 minutes of flight experience, I’m sure he described it accurately.
 
While the CFI should be able to handle windy conditions, what value would that flight have? especially for a first flight.
 
First flights are a big deal. It should be done with great attention to flight conditions, and also how the instructor relates to the student. My first flight was about 28 years ago. I can't remember the exact weather, but I do recall being tossed around like a kite. What I remember most is the instructor telling me "flying isn't for everyone", suggesting that I might be one of them. Looking back, this was the worst thing that could have happened. I gave up after that first flight. It was about a year later that I decided to give it another try at a different school. The rest is history. New (and naiive) students tend to gravitate towards CFIs wearing dark glasses, epaulets, and airline flying tales. Remember, you are hiring a teacher, not a top gun pilot. Although there are overlaps between the two categories, a top gun pilot does not imply a great CFI, nor vice versa.
 
Not sure why your instructor decided to fly. Did you get charged for the lesson?
...Thoughts on training in turbulence?
Sneak up on it.
Eventually, you will set your own limits on crosswinds, gust conditions, and direction. It will come.

Worst turbulence I ever experienced was just off Maui around McGregor Point. Airliners rounding the point for landing at Kahului were reporting moderate turbulence. In a Piper Archer that meant, head-banging, can't tune the radio, everything not tied down in the air. Walked away with a bruise on the crown of my head. Eye-opening. If you are ever there and the trades are blowing, stay on the windward side.
 
Bah, good experience for you. 25 knots down the runway, not that big of a deal. I've been up on days like that and the air was smooth. Personally I prefer an instructor who is willing to fly in less than ideal conditions, it builds confidence in students.

Sounds like you weren't frightened by this, which is a good thing.

To answer your question, yes you should absolutely train in turbulence, especially as you learn to land. Not every flight in the beginning, but as much as you can later in training. It is nothing to fear, unless it is severe.
 
There are instructors like OP's and there are also instructors who constantly cancel lessons because the wind is over 10 knots. I've had both as coworkers with not much middle ground. Do you want to learn to deal with wind or do you want to have half your lessons cancelled?
 
It’s very subjective, I have went up in turbulence, I’ve driven to the airport and lessons were cancelled after the drive, each person has their own personal minimums. On the other hand a buddy of mine went up in some wind and doesn’t want to get in a plane again. That happens a lot, newbies get scared aware from aviation, years later, he still hates airplanes. I’m still upset (today) at the CFI (not mine) who did that.
 
First few flights should be ideal conditions. Then you should be getting into windier conditions as you progress.

But wind can also be deceiving. It can seem like a smooth 15 knots on the ground, then get up to 1k feet and get kicked around. Could also be gusty on the ground 20 to 30 kts, the. Get up 1k feet and smooth flying.

So without fully knowing the conditions of the field, or if the pilot had heard from anyone that just landed. It’s tough to say if the CFI made the right call going up or not. But remember getting that license is more than just jumping in a plane and going. This is something you can have a discussion with the CFI about we rather planning, go no go decisions, etc.
 
Thanks for all of the replies. It didn’t scare me but I was nervous. I asked him what his risk assessment was of the current weather and he said it was low and he would still fly. We did do a good preflight so I wouldn’t say it was a waste of time. I do wish that he decided to not go up. We took off and flew to the other side of the runway and landed. He charged me for 30 minutes of flight time which I assume starts from the time we start the engine? I absolutely agree that I do want to learn how to fly in turbulence but I would rather do that after I know how to handle the airplane well. I’m definitely not giving up but I may look for a different instructor because I have had a couple of ground lessons and I feel like he doesn’t maximize our time together.
 
Most rentals have 3 “clocks”.

The regular clock on the panel that shows the time of day. But then there is a tachometer that measures total engine time (tach increases as the engine runs, but based on RPMs, not normal clock time). There is usually a Hobbs Meter in a rental that measures clock time while the engine is running.

Your lessons are likely charged by Hobbs.

Your dispatch, or log, or the CFI notes starting and ending Hobbs. The difference is what they charge you for the plane.

You could have 1.0 on the Hobbs, 0.7 on tach. Your logbook and the bill for the plane will reflect the 1.0.

The CFI time is usually billed separately from start to end of lesson (when you meet him in the office that clock usually starts ticking - some CFIs are generous and some watch every minute. Depends on personality and, likely, position in life. Young gun headed to the airlines needs every Penny. Retired airline capt sharing his passion has to charge something but he’s having fun.).

You’ll fly in winds up to 25 no problem, but I agree the first flight should have been on a smooth day. It’s no fun getting bounced around, even later in training, but definitely not day one with all new sounds, sights and sensations.

I remember my first flight. My dad paid the CFI without my knowledge while I was out looking at the planes for an open house. Ron, the CFI, came over and said “you can sit in there. Just scoot over to the left.” He sat/kneeled on the wing of the Cherokee 140 and explained all the gauges, controls etc. Then he said “let’s go for a short ride. I’ll promise you’ll love it.” My dad sort of shrugged from outside and said “I already paid. No refunds. Relax!”

Off we went. It was like a friendly ride. Smooth. Easy low bank turns. No abrupt movements/changes. I thought “God. This is amazing! Maybe I can do this too.” I was deathly afraid of heights and flying. That CFI and first flight was perfect . . . For me.

Definitely flew in rough uncomfortable air along the way but not the first few flights. Ron worked in the Steel Mills over near Gary and instructed on weekends now that his kids were away at college. That worked well for my personality.
 
As an aside, I bought my then fiancé a lesson out of PWK. We were getting married the next May and I thought she would be hooked at the controls! She had been OK for a few flights with me.

I was on an audit nearby (worked in public accounting) and she sent me an email saying her lesson was that day. I didn’t think about it.

1pm on a late July afternoon near Chicago. It was 90+ F gusty and bumpy. I went over to watch them come back in. It was a wild approach. The CFI high fived other instructors when he got back for having pulled off the landing.

Married 23 years this May. She flew once with me after that. First impressions make a difference.

A CFI on an intro flight, first lesson, pitch hitter lesson is an ambassador for GA. I disagree with some above. Should make that introduction smooth and drama free.

I’m guessing you had a younger CFI on this flight.
 
Thanks for all of the replies. It didn’t scare me but I was nervous. I asked him what his risk assessment was of the current weather and he said it was low and he would still fly. We did do a good preflight so I wouldn’t say it was a waste of time. I do wish that he decided to not go up. We took off and flew to the other side of the runway and landed. He charged me for 30 minutes of flight time which I assume starts from the time we start the engine? I absolutely agree that I do want to learn how to fly in turbulence but I would rather do that after I know how to handle the airplane well. I’m definitely not giving up but I may look for a different instructor because I have had a couple of ground lessons and I feel like he doesn’t maximize our time together.

30 minutes or 5 minutes? Once the engine is on the clock starts. Some flying clubs charge based on tach but that is rare. It is very manageable though (but useless for a newbie because you have a huge workload and need to learn and understand which takes many lessons to get there), now that I am “more” experienced (although still low time) I would fly in 30knots without blinking an eye, I flew in ~45knots recently and almost aborted landing at an airport but managed to get the plane under control. My Garmin watch shows my stress levels go up to almost 100 when I’m at full workload. Who knows how they calculate that. When I get a work call my stress levels also hit 100.
 
As an aside, I bought my then fiancé a lesson out of PWK. We were getting married the next May and I thought she would be hooked at the controls! She had been OK for a few flights with me.

I was on an audit nearby (worked in public accounting) and she sent me an email saying her lesson was that day. I didn’t think about it.

1pm on a late July afternoon near Chicago. It was 90+ F gusty and bumpy. I went over to watch them come back in. It was a wild approach. The CFI high fived other instructors when he got back for having pulled off the landing.

Married 23 years this May. She flew once with me after that. First impressions make a difference.

A CFI on an intro flight, first lesson, pitch hitter lesson is an ambassador for GA. I disagree with some above. Should make that introduction smooth and drama free.

I’m guessing you had a younger CFI on this flight.

That totally sucks and CFIs should be more conservative until they know the students tolerance level. It’s easy to work up, it’s impossible to change a negative first impression.
 
Some people enjoy making other people uncomfortable. I had a coworker who liked to sucker folks into sampling flame thrower food. The only time he did that to me, I had to restrain myself from clocking him while he was laughing.
 
Some people enjoy making other people uncomfortable. I had a coworker who liked to sucker folks into sampling flame thrower food. The only time he did that to me, I had to restrain myself from clocking him while he was laughing.

As much as I love practical jokes, that (former) coworker should be careful about karma
 
30 minutes or 5 minutes? Once the engine is on the clock starts. Some flying clubs charge based on tach but that is rare. It is very manageable though (but useless for a newbie because you have a huge workload and need to learn and understand which takes many lessons to get there), now that I am “more” experienced (although still low time) I would fly in 30knots without blinking an eye, I flew in ~45knots recently and almost aborted landing at an airport but managed to get the plane under control. My Garmin watch shows my stress levels go up to almost 100 when I’m at full workload. Who knows how they calculate that. When I get a work call my stress levels also hit 100.

Haha, I've had mine tell me to relax a few times as well after a landing. What I've found interesting is the ones I get that popup on have usually been fairly normal, benign landings.
 
My first actual flight lesson was on a windy, bitter cold winter day. We took off from OMA in a Cherokee that felt like a beer can on a lake on a windy day. At about 200 AGL I started wondering if I'd really made a good choice in deciding to take flying lessons.

It got better.
 
...I started wondering if I'd really made a good choice in deciding to take flying lessons. It got better.
I asked that same question a few times during stall training.
Yes, it got better.
 
I don't agree it was a waste. The instructor and student already had scheduled time, drove to the airport, did a preflight briefing (hopefully), etc...so there was already a sunk cost. The student got experience with preflight procedures, starting the engine, taxiing, etc. Instead of being criticized for flying with the student on a windy day I would applaud the instructor for ending a lesson early when it became apparent the lesson was no longer productive.

But you can look up the weather ahead of time. It isn’t typically that much of a surprise. The CFI should have known at least a few hours ahead of the lesson that it was likely to be a rough ride and should have called the student and cancelled the lesson before the student wasted his time.

there was no reason the student had to have a sunk cost in this. To me this seems like an instructor that doesn’t plan ahead, didn’t know what was on his schedule that day, or doesn’t value the students time. All are yellow flags and may cause me to investigate switching CFIs.
 
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