Rotting Planes. Sad.

Saw this at OXC this morning:upload_2019-5-18_21-49-20.jpeg

Several nearby planes on flat tires, but none this bad. The rudder was banging back and forth in the wind.
 
All that needs is a little duct tape!
 
When an owner dies without settling plane ownership the heirs often exaggerate the value. We had an owner in his 80’s passed unexpectedly a few years ago. His plane value was in the mid 90’s, family started at $125k. They had a lot of emotion tied into it too.

I did look at it, kinda liked it, but passed on any offer. Almost two years later a confidant told me I could buy it at $82k. Had I not been involved with another airframe I likely would have. It did sell around that time & price.
 
How about all the ones just sitting in hangars that have not been flown in years, I will bet thousands of them.

ADSB, mx costs each year, insurance, make the cost of an average 30-50,000 airplane. almost not worth having as I am beginning to wonder as i get get older, I fly less and less each year, but the owners are not willing to part, it is a part of them inside and to give that airplane up is like a death of themselves,
 
I like to believe that I'll know when to let go and that it won't be too hard to sell my airplane, but then I look at my motorcycle that I barely ride anymore. My wife recently asked me about selling it and the idea didn't sit well with me even though I don't use it very much at all.
 
strangebird said:
How about all the ones just sitting in hangars that have not been flown in years, I will bet thousands of them.

ADSB, mx costs each year, insurance, make the cost of an average 30-50,000 airplane. almost not worth having as I am beginning to wonder as i get get older, I fly less and less each year, but the owners are not willing to part, it is a part of them inside and to give that airplane up is like a death of themselves,
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True. During an annual a couple years ago I was talking to the guys at my old service center. They said they had just done an annual for a plane that had 10 hours on it since the last annual. And this place was ~.5 hours away flight!
 
Jay Honeck said:
There are always bright spots in every endeavor.

If all you ever did was fly on sunny Saturdays, or only attended Oshkosh and Sun N Fun, you would be forgiven for assuming that general aviation was booming. The facts, sadly, do not support this:

From Wikipedia:

"As of the end of 2015, in the US, there were an estimated 590,039 active certificated pilots. This number has been declining gradually over the past several decades, down from a high of over 827,000 pilots in 1980. There were 702,659 in 1990 and 625,581 in 2000."

That is a 30% decline in pilots during a period when our population grew 28%. A very bad trend, indeed.

Now, if you examine the basics, like average pilot age, avgas sales, aircraft sales, and number of operations, the situation becomes even more bleak. There are many thousands of airplanes that never move, and many thousands of PINOs -- pilots in name only.

We will always have pockets of active GA. Booming Texas areas (Austin and Houston), for example, have thriving GA populations that tend to mask the overall decline. Unfortunately, these don't make up for the massive reduction in actual GA flying overall. Get 200 miles from Austin, and most of the airports are veritable ghost towns.

The bright spots are the experimental homebuilt community, which have attracted many of the remaining active GA pilots (myself included), and unpiloted aviation -- drones -- which are set to outnumber GA pilots as soon as next year.

As for the current uptick in training, that's a reflection of the looming commercial pilot shortage. Will these pilots become active GA pilots on their days off, or just fly for hire? Time will tell.

Bottom line: GA is unhealthy, and continues its decline. Sadly, the only thing keeping our beloved hobby alive are massive federal subsidies -- a situation that cannot last forever.

In the meantime, I will continue to roam the largely empty skies in my RV-8A, enjoying the hell out of GA while I can.
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Where is this Booming hotbed pocket of active GA in Austin? Inquiring minds would like to know......... And what are these massive federal subsidies for GA that you're talking about?
 
Ah, you climbed the dirt pile to get the better shot!
 
MetalCloud said:
Question... why are there so many planes just slowing dying in their tie downs? It's sad for several reasons, but who just lets their planes rot away? Flat tires, rust, loose parts, worn "covers" and just so many indications that the plane hasn't been cared for in forever, let alone flown.

Yet the tie-down fees must be getting paid, right? WTF is going on?
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Speaking of planes rotting on ramps, when are they putting your bird back in the hangar?
 
jbrinker said:
Ugh. Some of these pics make me sick. Especially that last batch with the Champ, 172 and what else... Guessing those were all in flying shape when hangered 10-15 years ago. Might even be usable still now (with a lot of work). God, comeon folks, get these birds out and for sale!

And what I was "wishing on a star" for apparently nearly passed the FAA at one point not too long back. Let an amateur "rebuild" these wrecks and as long as they have to pass inspections like any amateur built experimental during the rebuild, and a condition inspection after, let them drop from the certified ranks to "something else (kinda like exp)". Yeah, a lot of these "barn finds" would wind up being someone else's project that never gets finished (like a lot of kit and scratch built planes) but SOME would get a new life. Hell if the A&P at our local EAA chapter could "supervise" me I guess I could do this. Maybe I will look into it. I think there are some ramp queens even at our local drome(s).

Or maybe I'm just insane and dreaming, and GA is slowly slipping into a coma. Once I have my PPL and enough hours, I'm for sure gonna do the young eagles thing. I want to get kids back interested in REAL stuff instead of video game crap.
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Since there is now a renewed interest in Trade School Education vs expensive 4 year university degrees,, I’m sure that some trade schools with A&E programs would welcome some of these relics. Plus you would get a tax deduction for the contribution. Someone, somewhere can get some use out of them hopefully


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
FormerHangie said:
Other than Cape Air's fleet of 402s, I don't see many of the bigger piston twins there.
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The aerial mapping world (which is bigger than many think) is a big user of PA31, C402, C404, etc.
Challenged said:
I like to believe that I'll know when to let go and that it won't be too hard to sell my airplane,
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I just looked at buying a PA28-140 from an older guy who admitted he was worried about medical renewal, didn't want to possibly stick his wife/kids with selling it if he passes, and physically just struggled to climb in...

Unfortunately he thought his $20-22k Cherokee was worth $29k, wouldn't budge, and "I already told my wife if I croak don't take less than 29 for it so I'm not taking less either." His hangar neighbor who didn't know me from the man in the moon pulled me aside as I was leaving and said "He'll die before he actually sells that plane you're just wasting your time"

In the past 2+ years it had 17 hours combined.

While I hope that old timer has many years ahead of him, I'm sure that plane will end up in the condition of others on this thread.
 
I'm very surprised to see that CJ-6 abandoned. For some reason, I've always been pretty jazzed by that plane. I hope it doesn't rot away.
 
I guess I am in the minority, but I see airplanes as just another machine, like a car, or boat, or washing machine. I think we have an unrealistic expectation that airplanes should last forever, but that takes a lot of money and care. It is great that people with a love of aircraft and enough money keep examples of older planes flying. However, there comes a point where you have to ask if you want to be a pilot with a practical, affordable aircraft to fly, or an aircraft restorer. I know some people love old cars also, but how many people really want to deal with driving a 40 year old car every day?
 
Just to use the example of that derelict Cub, there are lots of people who would have loved to restore it, before it got so bad. An old C-172, maybe not as many.
 
Stevea621j said:
I guess I am in the minority, but I see airplanes as just another machine, like a car, or boat, or washing machine. I think we have an unrealistic expectation that airplanes should last forever, but that takes a lot of money and care. It is great that people with a love of aircraft and enough money keep examples of older planes flying. However, there comes a point where you have to ask if you want to be a pilot with a practical, affordable aircraft to fly, or an aircraft restorer. I know some people love old cars also, but how many people really want to deal with driving a 40 year old car every day?
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I certainly have no expectation that this airplane should last forever. I merely cannot afford a new one. Look I happen to share your philosophy on the utilitarian value of the hobby, and is a great part of the reason I own an Arrow and not other higher performing but older aircraft with higher parts count. I am as far away from someone who enjoys this hobby for the "curator" angle. I despise antiquing, and I certainly despise its pricing structure as a head of household with other responsibilities and a highly devauled dollar with which to cover my family's expenses going forward. Throwing silly AMUs on little pieces of automotive parts from the middle of last century (never mind the gatekeeping of some AP) is certainly not a sensible manner of parting with my money, compared to the value I get out of my brand new daily driver vehicles, or my son's school tuition.

All that said, the fact remains I can't afford the new airplane I'd prefer to have, so I deal with what I can afford. Opportunity costs abound. But do understand, that's an economic tradeoff, not a Luddite argument. I'm grateful the dispatch rate of the Arrow has been pretty good to me. If its dispatch/serviceability wasn't to my liking and I couldn't otherwise afford something else with equal or better dispatch, I'd be forced to exit the avocation on economic grounds, since I don't finance toys.

So let's not conflate issues here. Many of us 'curate' because we have no other choice, not because we like to.
 
Stevea621j said:
I know some people love old cars also, but how many people really want to deal with driving a 40 year old car every day?
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1RTK1 said:
Me:)
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I also.!! I love my '70 Chevy pickup. A friend of mine, his grandson could not get enough of having to turn a crank to open the window. And it has the factory optional and original automatic transmission. It does need a restoration. People think it is an abandoned vehicle and want to buy it from me....
 
Stevea621j said:
I know some people love old cars also, but how many people really want to deal with driving a 40 year old car every day?
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Occasionally -- sure. Daily -- no, thanks.

If I had a Champ or a Cub and an RV-12, the 40s vintage plane would get flown occasionally, on the same kinds of days when it would be fun to drive an old car. Perfect weather, nowhere in particular to be. Wind? Places to be? Cold? Hot? Newer plane, every time.
 
Zeldman said:
I also.!! I love my '70 Chevy pickup. A friend of mine, his grandson could not get enough of having to turn a crank to open the window. And it has the factory optional and original automatic transmission. It does need a restoration. People think it is an abandoned vehicle and want to buy it from me....
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I've got an 1988 k2500. It just VILL. NOT. DIE. I drove it 75 miles a day for work, then whatever weekend driving was done. Nearly 300,000 miles on it now. Pulled 7,000 pounds over the Appalachian mountains several times. Put a seat out of a 2005 Chevy in it so it was much more comfortable than the old bench. I needed 4 doors for the kid or I'd still be driving it.

I let my brother in law borrow it for 2 years. His wife started it up one winter morning and didn't set the parking brake, it rolled into a tree, fixed that with parts from another. I let him use it as long as he wanted, he just wasn't allowed to sell it. The day I got it back my mother in law wanted the same deal so she didn't have to haul the garbage off in her little Subaru wagon. She's just not allowed to sell it.
 
DaleB said:
Occasionally -- sure. Daily -- no, thanks.

If I had a Champ or a Cub and an RV-12, the 40s vintage plane would get flown occasionally, on the same kinds of days when it would be fun to drive an old car. Perfect weather, nowhere in particular to be. Wind? Places to be? Cold? Hot? Newer plane, every time.
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I'm with you on that. I mean, there are vehicles from the late-80's I'd still be fine with daily driving, but classics from the 60's and 70's? No thanks. I love old muscle and late 60's/70's-era trucks, but I don't want to drive one every day. My '08 F-150 rides and drives pretty smooth for what it is, a '78 F-150 has a lot more slop in the steering, gets worse gas mileage, and bounces down the road a lot more. The '67 Vette we had was great for a once a week, sunny weather car, but sometimes hot starts were a chore and I was always worried about someone running into me.
 
Zeldman said:
I also.!! I love my '70 Chevy pickup. A friend of mine, his grandson could not get enough of having to turn a crank to open the window. And it has the factory optional and original automatic transmission. It does need a restoration. People think it is an abandoned vehicle and want to buy it from me....
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:thumbsup:

Years ago I had a '69 Ford F100 like that. Faded yellow paint with rust trim, 360 cu in, 4-speed, manual drum brakes, manual steering with a wheel the diameter of a steam ship's. Had a number of occasions people phoned the City to report an abandoned vehicle. Insurance company finally refused to insure a vehicle that old, so I sold it for $350 to a rancher who is still using it on his private land.
 
I saw these planes at Glendale, Arizona this week. They have some flat tires suggesting they have not been recently flown, but on the other hand there is some sign of recent work. Anybody know what they are?

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Palmpilot said:
I saw these planes at Glendale, Arizona this week. They have some flat tires suggesting they have not been recently flown, but on the other hand there is some sign of recent work. Anybody know what they are?
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Soon to be targets for some SAM practice..??
 
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