Rotting Planes. Sad.

Acrodustertoo said:
As it stands now, I am not going to give my 45 Willys MB to any of my children. That may change if they show some interest in keeping it going and not turning it into some stupid rock crawler. I am planning on being buried in it, well having my ashes thrown in and then tossing some dirt on top.
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I felt that way about my 1943 Ford GPW for awhile. Ten years after restoring it, I sold it and the 1/4T MB trailer for about what I had in parts for the restoration and not counting my labor worth anything. My two daughter's nor my wife cared about it so when I lost interest, it was time to sell. I needed money for an airplane anyway.
 
Maybe they think if they hold on long enough, the airplanes will become vintage and demand a premium... Nevermind the fact that a good portion of the legacy fleet is vintage...
 
N3368K said:
I felt that way about my 1943 Ford GPW for awhile. Ten years after restoring it, I sold it and the 1/4T MB trailer for about what I had in parts for the restoration and not counting my labor worth anything. My two daughter's nor my wife cared about it so when I lost interest, it was time to sell. I needed money for an airplane anyway.
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My MB has a history not only in my family but with the state of Montana as well that is worth more to me than any money offered would do. I have had her for over 20 years now.
 
Ugh. Some of these pics make me sick. Especially that last batch with the Champ, 172 and what else... Guessing those were all in flying shape when hangered 10-15 years ago. Might even be usable still now (with a lot of work). God, comeon folks, get these birds out and for sale!

And what I was "wishing on a star" for apparently nearly passed the FAA at one point not too long back. Let an amateur "rebuild" these wrecks and as long as they have to pass inspections like any amateur built experimental during the rebuild, and a condition inspection after, let them drop from the certified ranks to "something else (kinda like exp)". Yeah, a lot of these "barn finds" would wind up being someone else's project that never gets finished (like a lot of kit and scratch built planes) but SOME would get a new life. Hell if the A&P at our local EAA chapter could "supervise" me I guess I could do this. Maybe I will look into it. I think there are some ramp queens even at our local drome(s).

Or maybe I'm just insane and dreaming, and GA is slowly slipping into a coma. Once I have my PPL and enough hours, I'm for sure gonna do the young eagles thing. I want to get kids back interested in REAL stuff instead of video game crap.
 
I tried for years to get a guy to sell his Globe Swift. Nope, any day now he's going to get back into flying. For 30 years it was "any day now". They took it apart with a chainsaw 7 years ago, and the owner doesn't even know it's gone.
Tried to buy an Ercoupe, with pedals. Lovely airplane. The son-in-law (who has never flown in a GA plane, eve and knows nothing ar) was asking $50,000.00 for it because "it's an antique", and he knows it's worth even more than that. Last time I saw it, it had a tree growing through the wing.
There are a million stories out there. One for every abandoned plane on the planet.
So sad.
 
It's kind of an existential thought, but I always wonder what that "last trip" and tie downs were like... did the person landing the plane know it would be its last ever touch down...? Do any of these planes have any epic stories they could tell? Did they at least live long and fulfilling lives? It almost makes it more sad for the plane if it was just up and forgotten, like a dog waiting at home for its owner
 
Velocity173 said:
One of the saddest sights I've seen was seeing White Lightning N100WL rotting away on the ramp at RBW a long time ago. It was the first one made and had all these speed awards stenciled on the side of the aircraft. It was just sitting out in the rain with flat tires and corroding away. Believe it was later scrapped. Always liked the design.
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That's a shame, those are one of the best GA singles out there.


No where near that level of aircraft, but there's a nice little PA28-180 on our ramp, luckily it has some covers on it, but nice interior, 430, AP, recent OH, but been sitting for a little over a year since the owner unexpectedly died, plane is in probate with a large family, I was going to help sell it till I found that out, don't think some of the family understood how much of a mess things are when the courts get invloved, sad all around.

Think the plane still could be cleaned up and sold/flown without too much work, but that get harder with each month that goes by.
 
ragedracer1977 said:
IMG_20170212_095723_zpspew6ykcq.jpg


IMG_20170212_100236_zpseviflibs.jpg


IMG_20170212_100240_zpsqg1okpvf.jpg
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There are some on the north end of SDL that are in even worse shape. Up by the Greenway hangars just north of the new ops building. There used to be a Skylane RG rotting away near the ones you posted, is that still there? I always wanted to rescue that one.
 
Z06_Mir said:
There are some on the north end of SDL that are in even worse shape. Up by the Greenway hangars just north of the new ops building. There used to be a Skylane RG rotting away near the ones you posted, is that still there? I always wanted to rescue that one.
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I don't recall the RG. I'll look next time I'm there. The planes at the end are definitely worse. I just haven't walked up there. There's a Beech Skipper that's just in front of the one's I took pictures of, closest to the runway, that has all the glass broken in it from hail, I guess. I peeked through the glass. ALL the logbooks for the aircraft are stuffed in the baggage area. Big legal boxes full of them. That plane will NEVER move again, unless someone drags it off and chops it up. It's so far gone...
 
Zeldman said:
The airport where I did my flight training at just pulled all the abandoned and non flying airplanes and put them on an old ramp left over from the war. There were a number of B-18s in various states of disassembly sitting there as well, plus an abandoned Constellation.

One day I saw a ladder leading up to a door on the old Connie, so I invited myself to take a look. It had been in its earlier life a Lufthansa plane, with sleeper berths and a navigators station. Nothing like sitting in the left seat and grabbing a handful of throttles.

And stupid me without a camera....:(
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I would love to see something like that. A beautiful aircraft, a time capsule back to the days of air travel glamour, turbo compound R-3350s, and 145 octane aviation fuel.
 
Seems like airport management could do something about this - an update to hangar/tie down contracts that allows the airport management to sell abandoned airplanes, defined by a certain definition and time (tire flat more than 1 year, tree growing through the wing, etc). But by that time, it's probably too late.

Sigh.
 
But even with a rotted plane there is likely (although very small) scap metal value, and likely some space parts to salvage. There should be an abandoned clause in the contracts. Around here they are occupying space where tie down and hanger space is in demand.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
 
James331 said:
That's a shame, those are one of the best GA singles out there.


No where near that level of aircraft, but there's a nice little PA28-180 on our ramp, luckily it has some covers on it, but nice interior, 430, AP, recent OH, but been sitting for a little over a year since the owner unexpectedly died, plane is in probate with a large family, I was going to help sell it till I found that out, don't think some of the family understood how much of a mess things are when the courts get invloved, sad all around.

Think the plane still could be cleaned up and sold/flown without too much work, but that get harder with each month that goes by.
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Yeah, not sure why Nick (designer) let that one sit at RBW. If anything, it had historical significance being the first and having set speed records. I wanted to save that thing so bad but I had no money at the time. Couple years later I went on a demo with Nick's son in N444WL. 215-220 kts TAS on only 210 hp!
 
Tantalum said:
It's kind of an existential thought, but I always wonder what that "last trip" and tie downs were like... did the person landing the plane know it would be its last ever touch down...? Do any of these planes have any epic stories they could tell? Did they at least live long and fulfilling lives? It almost makes it more sad for the plane if it was just up and forgotten, like a dog waiting at home for its owner
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I doubt the owners made a conscious decision to park the plane, more likely that the annual came up and never got scheduled, or the pilot became ill or busy and let his currency lapse.

James331 said:
That's a shame, those are one of the best GA singles out there.

No where near that level of aircraft, but there's a nice little PA28-180 on our ramp, luckily it has some covers on it, but nice interior, 430, AP, recent OH, but been sitting for a little over a year since the owner unexpectedly died, plane is in probate with a large family, I was going to help sell it till I found that out, don't think some of the family understood how much of a mess things are when the courts get invloved, sad all around.

Think the plane still could be cleaned up and sold/flown without too much work, but that get harder with each month that goes by.
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That's very strange. When I was the executor of a messy estate, my job was to get the personal property (and for that matter the real property) sold and to put the money in a money market fund. If you have heirs squabbling over who gets what, valuing unsold assets is a major point of contention, so you liquidate everything, put the money in an interest bearing account, and let the courts settle the percentages among the heirs.


With the pilot population slowly declining, it's expected that the fleet size would decrease as well, and these hulks are how it's happening. The real waste here is if they are taking up hangar or tiedown space that's needed for flying airplanes.
 
As long as hangar/tied down payments come in regularly, many airports don't care, especially if they have openings at the moment. Most hangar leases have language about removal for non-payment, but it becomes problematic if someone continues to pay.
 
FormerHangie said:
The real waste here is if they are taking up hangar or tiedown space that's needed for flying airplanes.
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Give it a few years (especially if the economy stays strong) and you'll have enough people whining about not enough hanger/tie down space that airports will start imposing rules for derelict planes and the removal thereof. By that time I should be in a position to go on a major buying spree and start picking them up for pennies on the dollar.

On the other hand, I have a couple friends who are developers and part of their repertoire is acquiring land and building hangers. When there is no more land to acquire, then I can see more rules being imposed. Definitely something I'll be watching as the years progress. ;)
 
N3368K said:
As long as hangar/tied down payments come in regularly, many airports don't care, especially if they have openings at the moment. Most hangar leases have language about removal for non-payment, but it becomes problematic if someone continues to pay.
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If no one wants the space, sure, but that's not the case everywhere, particularly near the bigger cities. Where I live there are airports with waiting lists for tiedowns, and at at least one has such a long waiting list for hangars they aren't accepting new applicants.
 
I need to take a few pictures of the planes here at KSRQ and the ones down at KVNC, or maybe someone else can. Equally sad.

I've seen a few bonanza's, a diamond DA-20 frame, a couple 172's. One down in KVNC was pulled out the ocean after the owner put it there, probably corroded all the way through, but the family keeps paying for a tie down..

So sad...some people either don't know when to give up, or they keep hoping one day their "turd" will turn to gold...
 
FormerHangie said:
I doubt the owners made a conscious decision to park the plane, more likely that the annual came up and never got scheduled, or the pilot became ill or busy and let his currency lapse.
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I think that's the existential part of it.. they didn't mean to abandon their planes. They did not know that would be the last time their plane would fly. Maybe I'm weird there's something so tragic about that
 
The biggest hurdle for the airports is the rights that the owners do have. We can send certified letters and warnings all day long, but at the end of the day we can't lay a finger on someone else's property. If the owner has passed, it can be even more difficult to find out who the heir or estate is, and how to get in contact with them. In most cases I have witnessed, it is either the owner has good intentions of flying the airplane and just never follows through, or the owner has passed away and no one is willing or knows what to do about the plane. Often times the aircraft has sentimental value, even though it is only good for scrap.
 
Interesting. I looked up the plane's tail number in POST #37, the one that seemed a bit different, and yes it is!

N4619V, 1977 Varga 2150A Kachina, C/N: VAC-84-77
 
stop! stop! No more, please??? THE HORROR!

Makes me ill, the retired airline pilots with the hangar full of airplanes should know better... They're not a bottle of wine, they don't get better with age...
 
Wow, these are some AWFUL pictures. We don't have anything like that in our area ... most of our unused equipment is hidden by hangar doors. At my field, there are only 2 of us on my hangar row that are regular fliers. The V-tail Bo across from me gets an annual every year, and had tires replaced last year, but has not been airborne in 4 years. Mechanic told me the only tach time has been at annual (he hasn't pickled the engine), but changes oil at annual.
 
Ryanb said:
What's the problem with those?
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I was thinking the same thing on that series. I suppose the poster knows how long they've sat there, but those look like they're just operational aircraft tied down outside.

Dunno... shrug...

I've seen worse paint conditions on tied down stuff that flies at least weekly.

One acquaintance has a Cherokee 140 that alternates from white paint to bare aluminum in a mottled pattern all over the aircraft. All other MX is done religiously but he just doesn't care at all about paint.

If you saw his airplane sitting on a ramp you'd think it was abandoned. He actually flies the crap out of it all up and down the east coast.
 
Just curious, in the automotive industry if someone abandons a vehicle, after doing the appropriate due diligence you can apply for an abandoned vehicle title. Is there any such thing with airplanes?
 
denverpilot said:
I was thinking the same thing on that series. I suppose the poster knows how long they've sat there, but those look like they're just operational aircraft tied down outside.

Dunno... shrug...

I've seen worse paint conditions on tied down stuff that flies at least weekly.

One acquaintance has a Cherokee 140 that alternates from white paint to bare aluminum in a mottled pattern all over the aircraft. All other MX is done religiously but he just doesn't care at all about paint.

If you saw his airplane sitting on a ramp you'd think it was abandoned. He actually flies the crap out of it all up and down the east coast.
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Yeah no doubt. I've seen a lot worse than that. Probably more to the story, but those just look like average aircraft on an airport ramp. I dunno :dunno:
 
Mike Smith said:
Just curious, in the automotive industry if someone abandons a vehicle, after doing the appropriate due diligence you can apply for an abandoned vehicle title. Is there any such thing with airplanes?
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Basically the same applies to aircraft, but each state has their own codes/regulations on how to apply for title, required owner notification, removing liens, etc. etc.
 
Older guys losing medical is also one important factor.
Scary thing is some of them takes those plane flying once a year. There was a farmer next me with Cherokee 260 which was not flown for over an year. The plane was covered with enough bird poop to interrupt smooth airflow over the wings. One sunny after noon he shows up. He pulls her out, checks oil, jump starts plane with his truck and off he went flying.
 
Mike Smith said:
Just curious, in the automotive industry if someone abandons a vehicle, after doing the appropriate due diligence you can apply for an abandoned vehicle title. Is there any such thing with airplanes?
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As mentioned above, there is a way usually, but it can be clogged with red tape and may take time and money to accomplish. Unlike abandoned cars though, many of these derelicts are not truly abandoned, they still have owners that would fight any legal action to have them abandoned. They still find value in something that has rotted away. It is often a battle the airport simply does not have the resources or energy to fight. And nearly every airport in the country probably has at least one derelict. Nearly every one I've been to does.
 
Kinda curious about the situation where a derelict aircraft is taking up a tie-down space or hangar, while at the same time there are people on a waiting list for a tie-down or hangar space.

Seems like any airport would rather rent space to someone who flies their airplane (as opposed to letting it sit). More money in gas, business in the FBO, etc.

Wondering if it's possible (or even wise) for an airport to have some clause in their rental agreements? Something along the lines of a "minimum use" policy?
 
fasteddie said:
Kinda curious about the situation where a derelict aircraft is taking up a tie-down space or hangar, while at the same time there are people on a waiting list for a tie-down or hangar space.

Seems like any airport would rather rent space to someone who flies their airplane (as opposed to letting it sit). More money in gas, business in the FBO, etc.

Wondering if it's possible (or even wise) for an airport to have some clause in their rental agreements? Something along the lines of a "minimum use" policy?
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Trust me, as an airport operator myself, we want nothing more than an airport full of active airplanes. Even if we have such a clause, how does an airport remove such an aircraft? Most are unflyable, so they would have to be trucked out. The owner refuses to deal with it, and fights the airport every inch of the way. Sure after years of litigation and expense the airport could manage to have a court order it chopped up and removed, but that doing so creates a lot of ill will and bad PR as well. It's a lose/lose for the airport.
 
I'm clearly in the minority, but why care? There are plenty of flyable aircraft out there and I'm sure those posted are well beyond economic repair. Other than being an eyesore or taking up a hangar or tie down space, they aren't harming anyone.
 
jonnyjetprop said:
I'm clearly in the minority, but why care? There are plenty of flyable aircraft out there and I'm sure those posted are well beyond economic repair. Other than being an eyesore or taking up a hangar or tie down space, they aren't harming anyone.
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I agree with you. It seems the crowd that thinks "I'll fly it again" has an alternate crowd equally as large that thinks they "can make it fly again." IMO, these airplanes and their stories aren't anyone else's business.
 
jonnyjetprop said:
I'm clearly in the minority, but why care? There are plenty of flyable aircraft out there and I'm sure those posted are well beyond economic repair. Other than being an eyesore or taking up a hangar or tie down space, they aren't harming anyone.
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I don't really "care", but there are only so many of those old birds out there. Our generation may never see it, but a day is coming where there are just not going to be many airworthy planes left that the regular guy, like me, can afford to buy/fly. Every ramp queen is one less. I don't know the statistics, but I would think more old piston singles go out each year than new ones come in.
 
This is just the start. Our airport has at least 40 hangars that I have never seen open. Right outside of our hangar is a sad, old Apache that is slowly returning to its native elements.
When the World War II guys hung it up back in the '90s, we lost the majority of GA pilots. Then the Korean guys left us. Now, the Vietnam guys are going away.

After them? There are very few of us. In 10 years, after the ADS-B mandate, you'll be able to buy a 172 for chump change.
 
Ryanb said:
What's the problem with those?
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Flat tires, leaking fuel, leaking windows, missing avionics, etc etc. It's apparent that none of the 3 have moved in quite a long time. I actually sent letters to all 3 of the listed owners just to see if I'd get any response. I didn't.
 
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