Road Bump in Buying a Plane - No Place to Put It

MBDiagMan said:
During the assembly phase, it is the same as having a hangar without owning an airplane. The hangars are there for operation of aircraft, not storage or assembly of anything. After you get it together and if it flies, that is when it needs to be in a hangar with access to fuel and a runway.
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I do agree with you to a point. Ideally, hangars are always occupied with airworthy, actively flying aircraft that purchase fuel. That said, one must be reasonable. My lease gives me the discretion to make the decision. If they’re building an aircraft, which IS using the hangar for aeronautical purposes, I will probably ask for routine progress reports. If they aren’t making progress or not actually working on it, I have the right to terminate that person’s lease. That said, I’ve had to terminate the lease of several individuals who were not using their hangar appropriately. It doesn’t benefit anyone other than the lessee to be using a hangar for mini storage.
 
Pinecone said:
If it is in there with an airplane, no problem at all.

Hangars are for airplanes. And the FAA agrees. If the airports takes Federal money, the hangars much have airplanes in them.

But again, raise the hangar rent to the point that it costs the same or more than the local rent a room storage places, and the non-airplanes will leave.
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I believe that having non aviation items in the hangar is fine as long as there are airworthy aircraft that are flown and purchasing fuel in there too.
 
TommyG said:
My good friend is a manager at a big FBO. Waiting list for a T hangar is long. But so many planes are unused, barely used, or just rotting away. But the owners pay their rent, and keep up on their Insurance so they sit where they are. He would rather get people in there that will pay their bills and actually purchase fuel. By he can’t force anyone out as long as they keep the bills paid. And of course some have had inquiries on selling , but they have no interest in doing that. He said some of those planes are essentially write offs for businesses.
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Our airport manager won’t put up with it. He knows very well what is in those hangars and what is flown. At about six months of non activity he starts notifying them. At a year, they’re gone. I’ve seen him do it more than once.

I love my airport.
 
Pinecone said:
So, how often does a plane need to be flown to meet your criteria?

Will you check Flight Aware and remove planes from hangars if they do not fly enough hours??????
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If it’s not flown in six months, it’s not an active aircraft. Make room for those who fly. Let storage take place somewhere other than our airports where those who actively fly need hangar space.

Six months is the number at our airport, but maybe that number is different, but there DEFINITELY needs to be a limit.
 
But it was things like the Investment Tax Credit that fueled the boom in GA in the late 70s.
 
To WDD...I emailed the FBO manager at VPC asking about tie down space. Like what you said, the answer was "don't have any available". I'm gonna follow up with the head of the airport authority when I see him next. The eye test says there are a half dozen tiedown spots that are going unused, or are being used for auto parking that could be moved elsewhere. We'll see.
 
I'm biased....but airplane lift. Split hangar rent if you can find someone with a hangar.

IMG_20230517_201445902_HDR.jpg
 
Country Flier said:
So fortunately for me, I'm in an area with plenty of hangar space...yet...people with planes are turned away from the airports in my area regularly....Why? Well, many of the hangars are filled with boats, classic cars, etc., instead of planes. ALL the airports in my area that I'm aware of have a clause in their leases that states airplanes get first dibs, BUT...do you think the area airport managers like to tell the new guy that? NOPE! They'd rather let that "dependable, proven leasor" stay than take a risk on someone new with a plane. Recently, a friend tried to rent a hangar at the class C I'm at, and they told him there was a long waiting list. I already knew of NUMEROUS hangars with boats, cars, travel trailers, and even an automotive paint shop that according to the lease, can be booted in 90 days if the hangars are full and a new airplane leasor comes along. I told him, he called the manager back, and suddenly a hangar became available.
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Go to the next City counsel meeting and ask to get on the agenda. If they take any FAA funds your airport manager better start writing letters to the leasee's/owners about it. Get your ducks in a row, then start rattling the cages.
 
iamtheari said:
USAF has entered the chat…

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THat's nothing. I lived in West Germany and every year they held REFORGER exercises.... F-4s, AV-8s, Tornado's, F-15s, F-16s all taking off from roads 'for training'. Great time to be a kid.

 
Pinecone said:
So, how often does a plane need to be flown to meet your criteria?

Will you check Flight Aware and remove planes from hangars if they do not fly enough hours??????
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Whatever the lease defines as 'active' is the only right answer.

Seems to me that the managers are more of a problem than the owners.
 
kyleb said:
To WDD...I emailed the FBO manager at VPC asking about tie down space. Like what you said, the answer was "don't have any available". I'm gonna follow up with the head of the airport authority when I see him next. The eye test says there are a half dozen tiedown spots that are going unused, or are being used for auto parking that could be moved elsewhere. We'll see.
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It might be more helpful to go there in person and ask. An email is very easy to dismiss, but showing up in person shows more commitment. Especially if you have a plane that needs a spot asap.
 
pfarber said:
THat's nothing. I lived in West Germany and every year they held REFORGER exercises.... F-4s, AV-8s, Tornado's, F-15s, F-16s all taking off from roads 'for training'. Great time to be a kid.

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I was living in NOLA when TACA 110 landed engines out beside a levee at NASA’s Michoud shuttle liquid fuel tank assembly facility. Was flown out to MSY after one engine replaced/other repaired a day or two later. What I found most impressive was the captain’s back story.

Landing field circled, departure road identified by the arrow:
IMG_0363.jpeg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TACA_Flight_110
 
RyanB said:
There is some truth to that. Plenty of business owners use their aircraft as a tax write off, but the idea that it’s killing GA? Nah, not hardly.
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Agreed. My point was in response to the assertion that people are intentionally overpaying just to save on taxes. Aircraft purchases are deductions, not credits. Your maximum tax savings are 37 cents on the dollar. Who would pay a higher price just to get 37% of the overpayment back?

If I've got this wrong and someone knows how to change that equation, let me know. I could use the advice.
 
UngaWunga said:
It might be more helpful to go there in person and ask. An email is very easy to dismiss, but showing up in person shows more commitment. Especially if you have a plane that needs a spot asap.
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I have two t-hangars at VPC and a good relationship with the FBO manager. I promise, I got the "real" answer from him with my e-mail. The question I haven't asked is why there are at least a half dozed "used to be" tie-down spots that are unoccupied on the ramp, yet none are available. I suspect they are working to clear the ramp of piston engine vermin so they have more room for transient jets, but that's only a guess. I'll get an answer the next time I see the FBO manager (who works Monday-Thursday during the day - not when I'm typically at the airport) or the next time I see the head of the airport authority, who hangars his Cirrus a few spots down from where I keep the RV-10... For what it is worth, I don't need a tiedown spot - I was asking to see if there might be something available for WDD...
 
pfarber said:
Go to the next City counsel meeting and ask to get on the agenda. If they take any FAA funds your airport manager better start writing letters to the leasee's/owners about it. Get your ducks in a row, then start rattling the cages.
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They don’t, I checked.
 
Ed Haywood said:
Who would pay a higher price just to get 37% of the overpayment back?
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Nobody.

But might there be more business buyers when they know there’s a built-in 37% discount? Maybe. Might that allow sellers to keep prices up? Maybe.

It’s not uncommon for tax considerations to distort a market, but is it “killing GA?” Hardly.
 
I will not live long enough to have access to a hangar within several hours of where I live. Now that I can no longer afford anything that will fit on a trailer and park in my driveway, it just doesn't matter... :mad:
 
I was around for the disgusting Meigs Field pillaging. I parked outside for along time at midway and also ended up at Naperville Aero for a while.

Things won’t change and airports will continue to shrink.

I’m lucky enough to own a paint / upholstery / avionics shop. I see all sorts of planes come in- if you prep an airplane properly, whatever religious war you get into about prep, an airplane can do just fine outdoors for quite some time.

I’ve seen zinc chromated airplanes from the factory with the paint hanging in for dear life and not an ounce of corrosion. There are some exceptional primers out there that help with adhesion a ton, and some of the more recent and expensive paints really hold up.

Proper prep with a nice overall well applied coat of imron and proper care lasts you fine outside within reason. Hangars are a nice treat to have, but you can do just fine outside for a few years until you get one
 
It was a while ago, 2009. I got the plane I wanted to buy for 20 years offered and bought it that week. Flew it to my local airport, where I had inquired for a hangar only 4 days prior. It was on the ramp for less than a week, and in a Nice ($$$$) hangar. I said I wanted something cheaper, and it was available the next month. Being there with a plane was the ticket. Online waiting list was 6 months or more.
 
Update - after calling the airport manager again at Paulding (45 min away), I was able to get a tie down spot. So although it's the next county over, at least it's in the same state and time zone.
 
I have - and it is. I fully admit that this is 100% a retired guy’s unnecessary toy. And yep - I’m blessed to be at this point in my life, and if this went away I’d still have so much.
 
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Paulding is a nice airport. I did a lot of pattern work there when working on my PP at RYY.
 
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WDD said:
Update - after calling the airport manager again at Paulding (45 min away), I was able to get a tie down spot. So although it's the next county over, at least it's in the same state and time zone.
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My home airport built a new runway, leading to the airport being closed starting 2 weeks after I first flew my RV-14. I was able to keep the plane at a nearby airport for the ~6 months we were closed. It was about an hour drive each way. I made that drive regularly. As I sit here, 3 years later, I remember the flying and adjusting but I only remember the driving when I am in the car headed that way for other reasons, and I remember it with a smile. Congratulations on finding a reasonable place to keep your plane. You’re going to love it.
 
Prebuy is schedule for Monday, but in my mind this is still 50/50% if it goes through. Nothing wrong with the buyer - he’s been great so far, very patient with a new buyer who’s taking a bit of time learning what to set this up. Just given the complexities of something like this - we shall see.
 
DeadStick said:
This right here is what is killing so much of GA. Everything from tax laws to aircraft prices are dictated by how much $ businesses can purposely overspend on aviation to save more on their tax bill.
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Right, because so many corporations buy Vans and Velocity airplane kits......

....riiiiigggghhhht.......
 
DeadStick said:
Here's a Pro Publica article
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OK, anything they publish is instantly suspect. I have yet to see an unbiased report from this media group.
DeadStick said:
I'm not sure where this 37 cents on the dollar came from,
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It comes from the tax code. 37% is the higest statutory marginal rate. A deduction does not return more than the marginal rate of the taxpaying entity. For an individual, this can theoretically go as high as 44.6% when Obamacare and NIIT surtaxes are included, but if you're selling equities in short-term timing to fund a plane, you're not doing a very good job of managing your taxes.

You might want to consider that many of the people on this site personally pay those higher tax rates and surtaxes and thus understand how the system works. You do not give the impression of having ever dealt with it personally, and as a result you are falling prey to dis-information from highly biased media sources.
 
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StraightnLevel said:
It comes from the tax code. 37% is the highest statutory marginal rate.
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Bingo.
StraightnLevel said:
You might want to consider that many of the people on this site personally pay those higher tax rates
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Bingo.

I think some people don't know what a deduction is, and think it is subtracted from taxes paid, rather than from taxable income.
 
I'm feeling blessed. New pilot (but not young), bought a vintage 1956 C172 last year. She's always been hangared. We've moved her around a few times, but always to get a better spot. Her new hangar is snug and unheated, but it's right at my home airport with two big beautiful runways. They say the waiting list is 2 years here, but they've just added some new, bigger hangars. East Texas has a lot of airports. I know that some of them will let you build your own hangar on their property. The GA community is friendly here.
 
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