RJ on Final to LGA But Talking to JFK Tower

DJTorrente

DJTorrente

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DJTorrente
I asked Sacramento tower if they had the runway lights on the parallel once…

They said ya. But we see you’re lined on on Maclellen (spelling?) AFB.

WHA??????

Our localizer was tuned to Sacramento, and it was locked on and pointing at the AFB…

Better question, was tower gonna speak up?!!!
 
Tools said:
I asked Sacramento tower if they had the runway lights on the parallel once…
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This happens in Rapid City alot. People visually line up with Ellsworth.

There was a flight years ago coming into a uncontrolled field. They clicked up the PCL and found the runway, but it was the wrong airport. No real problem except that they weren't allowed to fly the passengers back out of there.

There are a few non-airport confusions as well. There's Old Bridge airport which has the dragstrip just west and mostly parallel to their runway. There ae notes in the AF/D on the approach plates warning you.
 
Tools said:
Better question, was tower gonna speak up?!!!
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Going into Savanah a long time ago approach handed us off and we checked in with tower responding "Roger". We continue lined up on ILS and as we get closer we ask for landing clearance. Nothing. Check plate and it has a different twr freq. We switch and get cleared to land. Turns out approach gave us Hunter AAF freq and I suspect he would have happily watched without saying anything. There are a few out there who would like to see you get in trouble. Check out this occurrence:

Report: Envoy E170 at Chicago on Sep 25th 2024, landed on wrong runway

Aviation Herald - News, Incidents and Accidents in Aviation
avherald.com avherald.com
 
DJTorrente said:
www.facebook.com

395K views · 4.3K reactions | A Delta flight was on its final approach to land at LaGuardia Airport, but the pilots were talking to controllers in the JFK tower about 10 miles away on the wrong radio frequency. | CBS News

A Delta flight was on its final approach to land at LaGuardia Airport, but the pilots were talking to controllers in the JFK tower about 10 miles away on the wrong radio frequency.
www.facebook.com www.facebook.com
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The former NTSB chair and 30-year pilot has never heard of a pilot being on the wing frequency? I really hope they took that quote out of context. This would have been a deal if the flight hand landed without clearance, but is it otherwise? LGA tower knew who they were and where they were going. This is not nearly the problem it would have been to be talking to the correct airport and landing at the wrong one, which has also happened.
 
Tools said:
I asked Sacramento tower if they had the runway lights on the parallel once…
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Almost happened to me once, mistaking Moffet Field for San Jose...did a reality check and caught myself before I did anything stupid tho. Whew.
 
Minneapolis Approach handed me off to Crystal Tower with the frequency for Anoka Tower once. We got it sorted out while I was on downwind and nobody in the pattern at Crystal died. But it taught me to know the frequency I expect, listen to what I’m told, and ask about any discrepancy between them.
 
Of course, there was a crash back years ago where the pilot had dialed up the Montebello VOR rather than the Shenandoah LOC in the radial and flew the approach into the side of a mountain.
 
At least twice, ATC has uplinked the wrong frequency to me via CPDLC. Each time I had to go back to the old one and verify via voice.
 
Larry in TN said:
At least twice, ATC has uplinked the wrong frequency to me via CPDLC. Each time I had to go back to the old one and verify via voice.
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I got the wrong frequency in a handoff twice in the same flight. After going back to the issuing ATC outlet after the second the comment was something like Contact XX on XXX... I'm sure this time.
 
Years ago I was IFR going into Albany on the approach I was vectored to the final for scenechtaky. The tower controller caught the mistake .
 
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I had an instructor once who landed at what he thought was a new airport to check it out. It turned out to be Maryland International Raceway, and they weren't amused.

Years ago I was helping Margy's flight instructor ferry his 172 back from Winston-Salem after an engine overhaul. We landed in New London, VA. I'm looking at the runway on short final. I tell him, "I work on a drag strip, this is a drag strip." THen it occurs to me. The guys who ran my strip (Old Dominion) would talk about running in Lynchburg and it occured to me that this was where. While we were waiting on the ground, the state police came up and asked when we'd be leaving as they wanted to set up cones on the runway and practice driving fast.

A few years later, Margy and I decided to go fly over New London while the races are on. Margy flies down the runway at 1000' wagging the Navion's wing. I can see my boss from Old Dominion waving at me. The next week at ODS, he asked if that was me over New London. I said it was. He said his brother was having a fit thiking I was going to land there.
 
Don't forget the Dreamlifter landing at Jabara.

:biggrin:

www.aopa.org

'Uh, say again?'

The pilots of an Atlas Air Boeing 747 Dreamlifter headed to McConnell Air Force Base in Wichita, Kan., mistakenly landed 8 nautical miles away at Colonel James Jabara Airport Nov. 20.
www.aopa.org
 
Another couple gotchas I've seen - Approaches into Fairchild AFB it's very easy to suck off to Spokane Intl and at Colorado Springs the east runway is so far out that you can mistake the rt 24 as the right runway and 17L as the right runway. Never came close to landing at either but it will get your attention, especially at night.
 
Back in the '90s, I was flying into ELP in a DC9. We saw the airport, so I reported "Runway 22L in sight". I don't think the approach controller got the joke.
 
Don’t forget when a Western Airlines 737 landed in Buffalo, WY, 25 miles from the intended destination of Sheridan. That was a fairly landmark incident.
 
Lindberg said:
The former NTSB chair and 30-year pilot has never heard of a pilot being on the wing frequency? I really hope they took that quote out of context. This would have been a deal if the flight hand landed without clearance, but is it otherwise? LGA tower knew who they were and where they were going….
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I had the same exact thoughts after listening to that dude.

Another aviation legend who’s never made a mistake.
lol
 
Regional going to regional

Depends on where they are getting their freqs, if it’s off the airport data page and you have the wrong/old airport up, easy mistake.

If you include that freq when you brief the arrival and plate prior to TOD, lots harder to make that mistake. Seeing the last job the crew probably had was flying a 172, much really depends on who the regional is training the greenhorns and the quality of their training CAs.
 
decalogue said:
Regional going to regional

Depends on where they are getting their freqs, if it’s off the airport data page and you have the wrong/old airport up, easy mistake.

If you include that freq when you brief the arrival and plate prior to TOD, lots harder to make that mistake. Seeing the last job the crew probably had was flying a 172, much really depends on who the regional is training the greenhorns and the quality of their training CAs.
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You brief comm frequencies?
 
Tarheelpilot said:
You brief comm frequencies?
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Of course, as well as ILS freq if flown, which way we are turning off the runway, biggest hazard and mitigation, etc etc

When told like a story of how we are getting from here to the blocks, it’s just a smooth easy brief

Worse case you should figure it out pretty quick when you call one tower by another’s name lol
 
decalogue said:
Of course, as well as ILS freq if flown, which way we are turning off the runway, biggest hazard and mitigation, etc etc

When told like a story of how we are getting from here to the blocks, it’s just a smooth easy brief

Worse case you should figure it out pretty quick when you call one tower by another’s name lol
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I don’t think I quite understand what you’re saying. Am I to understand you brief approach/tower frequencies.

If so I don’t think that necessary or beneficial. More like a waste of time.

There are plenty I do brief. Navigation frequencies are a good example.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
I don’t think I quite understand what you’re saying. Am I to understand you brief approach/tower frequencies.

If so I don’t think that necessary or beneficial. More like a waste of time.

There are plenty I do brief. Navigation frequencies are a good example.
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It’s takes me all of 1 second or 2, if time is that tight something bad happened
 
decalogue said:
It’s takes me all of 1 second or 2, if time is that tight something bad happened
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Ok. But for what purpose? Many airports have multiple frequencies for the same facility. It’s very random which one they use. Obviously one is listed as the primary but in my experience that’s meaningless. I guess what I don’t get is why use any time or bandwidth reading and then briefing a frequency that will be assigned to you?
 
When we brief the LOC frequency it is already tuned in the radio control head. I doubt I'd remember the frequency we briefed by the time we're shipped to Local.

I usually get the Local frequency by listening to the Final approach controller give it to the airplanes in front of me. If not that, then I've already pre-tuned from the approach plate. Lastly, the frequency that they (usually) tell me at the time of the transfer.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
Ok. But for what purpose? Many airports have multiple frequencies for the same facility. It’s very random which one they use. Obviously one is listed as the primary but in my experience that’s meaningless. I guess what I don’t get is why use any time or bandwidth reading and then briefing a frequency that will be assigned to you?
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I’m not union, I brief it and write down the TWR & ground ramp freq on my little scratch pad.

Takes but a second, a stupid mistake like this would be the end of my well paying gig, just held to a higher standard, it takes a couple seconds and I have enough “bandwidth”
 
Ideally the PM would put the tower in standby after contacting final. If approach doesn't give you the tower frequency, and you didn't look it up beforehand, you look over at the chart and find it. It doesn't take long. Including it in the briefing is just another thing that can be forgotten by the time it's needed.

Not sure how the PM tuned the wrong airport as the frequencies aren't close...the crew will probably file an ASAP and if they dual file an ASRS report we should be able to read it in a month or two...
 
decalogue said:
I’m not union, I brief it and write down the TWR & ground ramp freq on my little scratch pad.

Takes but a second, a stupid mistake like this would be the end of my well paying gig, just held to a higher standard, it takes a couple seconds and I have enough “bandwidth”
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Welp. Lots of assumptions on your part it seems. I too have a really good paying job I can lose and don’t want to lose.

I also write down and even preload the ramp in the #2 standby. Because it is beneficial. Ramp often requires an early call on the ground and there isn’t time to look it up at that point.

You still haven’t answered why it’s beneficial to brief frequencies that are assigned. Such as tower/approach.

I’m not being a dick here. I’m legitimately asking why?? I’ve been a professional pilot for thirty years and you are the only person I have ever heard promote briefing assigned frequencies. Where do you draw the line? When you’re en-route are you looking up sector frequencies on your jeppview? Because that makes about as much sense as briefing tower.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
Welp. Lots of assumptions on your part it seems. I too have a really good paying job I can lose and don’t want to lose.

I also write down and even preload the ramp in the #2 standby. Because it is beneficial. Ramp often requires an early call on the ground and there isn’t time to look it up at that point.

You still haven’t answered why it’s beneficial to brief frequencies that are assigned. Such as tower/approach.

I’m not being a dick here. I’m legitimately asking why?? I’ve been a professional pilot for thirty years and you are the only person I have ever heard promote briefing assigned frequencies. Where do you draw the line? When you’re en-route are you looking up sector frequencies on your jeppview? Because that makes about as much sense as briefing tower.
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Just part of the talk

We also mention language as a risk when going intl even though we all know their first language aint English.
 
decalogue said:
Of course, as well as ILS freq if flown, which way we are turning off the runway, biggest hazard and mitigation, etc etc
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I think I'd rather have you watch where you're goin'.
 
There are a number of locations where landing at the wrong (adjacent) airport is a relatively commonplace occurrence. Lake Charles (KLCH) and Chennault International (KCWF) are only 7 NM apart, and the long runway at KLCH is the same orientation (15/33) as the runway at KCWF. The ATIS at KLCH has had a caution to make sure you are landing at the correct airport for years.
 
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