flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
I doubt it. Avemco will get their $$$ from the FBO's insurance I'm sure.
BTW, all you FBO's, your insurance rates just went up...
RIP, Skylane N271G. :(
- Thread starter flyingcheesehead
- Start date
I doubt it. Avemco will get their $$$ from the FBO's insurance I'm sure.
BTW, all you FBO's, your insurance rates just went up...
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
Well, we'll know later today. Adjuster is looking at it at 3.
Nope. First thing the GM at the FBO said upon meeting up with our maintenance officer yesterday was "I'm sorry, we screwed up." Not to mention, we know they got the call 'cuz they *did* come down and top it off. Still no idea why they'd top it off and then not put it away, but...
matthammer
Pre-takeoff checklist
That's an all too familiar sight. The flight school I got most of my certificates from lost 2 brand new G1000 C172S's in a similar manner. Both were tied down. Microburst hit, ripped the tie-downs out of the ground, flipped one of the planes over an 8 foot fence and the flight school trailer, landed upside-down in a parking lot. The other one didn't break completely free of the tie-downs, but it became airborne enough that it slammed nose-first and snapped off the nose wheel. First plane was totaled, second was repaired.
http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/gallery?section=news/local&id=7793967&photo=1
http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/gallery?section=news/local&id=7793967&photo=1
Last edited:
FlyGirlKHWO
Pre-takeoff checklist
Man, 51kt gusts? Yee-haw.
Very sad to see a good plane down.
Very sad to see a good plane down.
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
How did I know you were going to do that?
I didn't even need to follow the link.
It only takes one person with a lack of follow-through to cause this, it certainly doesn't mean that all line personnel are incompetent. In fact, the person who was really annoying was the VP of the company, whose ideas for how to get the plane back on its wheels were not only dangerous and certain to cause further damage, but were almost certain to get somebody hurt.
We stayed there to ensure they didn't try to flip the plane over without the permission of our insurance company, as they were in an awfully big hurry to do so.
When they started down a questionable path, we called airport operations to suggest that they might want to see what was happening. Before ops even got there, we called the airport fire department. The bad ideas kept flowing, and after the firefighters saw the things they were going to attempt, they called out the airport fire chief who essentially said "NO. You are not doing this this way. Call a crane."
I tell you what, some of the line personnel were a lot smarter than that VP... Unfortunately, they didn't feel comfortable offering their opinions to him, thus the intervention. Sigh.
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
Sad. However I do see a potential buyer for the mooney
Nope. I know that there was a point where the insurance company wouldn't insure us even in a 201, dunno if that's still the case but the Ovation is a plane that requires more skill and proficiency than a 182 by a fairly large margin, and it'd be difficult for enough people to fly it often enough to maintain proficiency.
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
Nope, we're at a class C with a 24x7 FBO so their unicom is on 122.95 and we generally call on the phone anyway, as was the case the other day.
Jaybird180
Final Approach
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
Jaybird180
Final Approach
I'll wait
(considering I have zero time in the Ovation - and only 1 landing in the M20 type)
(considering I have zero time in the Ovation - and only 1 landing in the M20 type)
Skylane81E
Final Approach
Lets see,
It's faster, so you have to work harder to stay ahead
It is more complex, so more stuff to manage
Many have such huge gas tanks that planning the fuel load is important
It is slippery making you plan descents further in advance
Just because the doors closed doesnt mean it will fly
I could go on
It's faster, so you have to work harder to stay ahead
It is more complex, so more stuff to manage
Many have such huge gas tanks that planning the fuel load is important
It is slippery making you plan descents further in advance
Just because the doors closed doesnt mean it will fly
I could go on
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
Cross the threshold in a 182 10kts fast, no big deal. Do it in the Ovation, and you'll be off the end of the runway. Hell, maybe even 3kts fast.
Skylane81E
Final Approach
You mean that Mooney traded some docile flying qualities to go fast and Cessna traded some speed to be more docile?
Say it isn't so!
Jaybird180
Final Approach
1- No, you have to think quicker, not work harder
2- Like what? Same number of controls
3- What's the range on both?
4- A math problem...same-same
I'm not convinced....but like I said, I'm going to remain silent because I have no experience.
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
Do the exact same thing in the Ovation as you do the 182, and let us know how long your ground "roll" is.
Jaybird180
Final Approach
Illogical argument. It is reasonable to have different procedures and performance characteristics on differrent platforms.
The statment was about the difficulty in flying one vs the other. While I agree that there is obviously less margin for error in one, that does not fit the definition of greater degree of difficulty. There are people that would somehow manage to sloppily fly a well folded paper airplane.
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
You said same number of controls. I was simply giving you a mental exercise in using the same number of controls in a retract vs a fixed gear.
Jaybird180
Final Approach
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
Jaybird180
Final Approach
You're right, Ed. I'm out of my league - having no experience and all....
Skylane81E
Final Approach
Agreed
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
1. Yes, you have to think quicker. There is more stuff to do, and it needs to be done earlier. That is harder.
2. Not really. Yeah, you've gotta put the gear down. You probably want to spend more time on engine management than you have to in the 182 or it'll get expensive. Etc.
3. Range? With an hour reserve, I'd plan on the 182 going 650nm and the Mooney going 1040nm, or 60% farther.
4. Again, not really. In the 182, you can pull the throttle back right now and it'll throw you forward in your seat it slows down so fast. Ask Pete - I took him for a ride in the Mooney yesterday and showed him how it really doesn't like to slow down. In the early stages of the descent, you're generally at 160 KIAS. I pull the power back in 4 steps starting 20nm out, and in the first 10 of those miles it'll lose about 5 KIAS total. The final step, going from 17" to 14" MP, I believe the prop begins driving the engine, not the other way around, until speed comes down lower. Gear speed is 140, flaps 110.
Ted, in your situation I'd agree. You have plenty of experience now, and you fly a lot of hours per year. I've flown nearly 150 hours in the Mooney in the past year and she still likes to let me know that I'm neglecting her if I go more than a couple of weeks without flying.
However, the average pilot in our club flies less than 30 hours per year. Last year, the pilot with the most hours flew 82, and only two others were above 50. That just isn't the kind of pilot that's going to do too well with a 170+ knot airplane.
The Ovation isn't "hard" to fly. It simply requires a certain level of proficiency and regular exercise that isn't generally present in a larger-club environment.
Skylane81E
Final Approach
Beyond all that, even with big tanks my 182 will carry 4 with a full fuel load.
Our old Bravo would carry one and baggage (but go a LOOOONG way)
Our old Bravo would carry one and baggage (but go a LOOOONG way)
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
However, the average pilot in our club flies less than 30 hours per year. Last year, the pilot with the most hours flew 82, and only two others were above 50. That just isn't the kind of pilot that's going to do too well with a 170+ knot airplane.
The Ovation isn't "hard" to fly. It simply requires a certain level of proficiency and regular exercise that isn't generally present in a larger-club environment.
Which is the big key. Plus routinely switching planes you fly in a club because of availability with a few number of hours, nothing gets ingrained, and makes for more issues to screw something up.
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
Oh, and I forgot to mention the biggest kick in the teeth with all this.
Our planes are in a large community hangar which is why they're taken out and put away by FBO personnel. There's another club on the field that used to also have their planes in the same hangar, but they apparently decided they didn't want to pay for the hangar any more, so their planes have been out on the ramp the last couple of months.
The line crew put the other club's planes away in the hangar due to the approaching storms, and left our 182 out on the ramp. Glad we paid all that extra money for a hangar to keep our planes safe.
Our planes are in a large community hangar which is why they're taken out and put away by FBO personnel. There's another club on the field that used to also have their planes in the same hangar, but they apparently decided they didn't want to pay for the hangar any more, so their planes have been out on the ramp the last couple of months.
The line crew put the other club's planes away in the hangar due to the approaching storms, and left our 182 out on the ramp. Glad we paid all that extra money for a hangar to keep our planes safe.
N2124v
Line Up and Wait
I used to have an M20E, it was fun to pull the throttle back and wait, and wait, and wait some more to get it to slow down. You never carried any extra speed or the thing would just sit there and float right in down the runway. I used to ope the cowl flaps, air intakes, and drop the step just to get it draggy when I was flying by self and trying to get slow. Fun planes?
N2124v
Line Up and Wait
Oh, and I forgot to mention the biggest kick in the teeth with all this.
Our planes are in a large community hangar which is why they're taken out and put away by FBO personnel. There's another club on the field that used to also have their planes in the same hangar, but they apparently decided they didn't want to pay for the hangar any more, so their planes have been out on the ramp the last couple of months.
The line crew put the other club's planes away in the hangar due to the approaching storms, and left our 182 out on the ramp. Glad we paid all that extra money for a hangar to keep our planes safe.
That really stinks.....
Ted
The pilot formerly known as Twin Engine Ted
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iFlyNothing
Ted, in your situation I'd agree. You have plenty of experience now, and you fly a lot of hours per year. I've flown nearly 150 hours in the Mooney in the past year and she still likes to let me know that I'm neglecting her if I go more than a couple of weeks without flying.
However, the average pilot in our club flies less than 30 hours per year. Last year, the pilot with the most hours flew 82, and only two others were above 50. That just isn't the kind of pilot that's going to do too well with a 170+ knot airplane.
The Ovation isn't "hard" to fly. It simply requires a certain level of proficiency and regular exercise that isn't generally present in a larger-club environment.
Like I said, it's not hard to fly. I do agree that if you fly under 100 hours a year, you probably won't be proficient enough to use something much more than a 172/Cherokee/182, and that's where most clubs seem to be, which is why most clubs seem to have those types of planes.
And I was joking about the club buying it - we all know it's never getting sold anyway.
wabower
Touchdown! Greaser!
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Wayne
Are the members of the other club more generous tippers?
Oh, and I forgot to mention the biggest kick in the teeth with all this.
Our planes are in a large community hangar which is why they're taken out and put away by FBO personnel. There's another club on the field that used to also have their planes in the same hangar, but they apparently decided they didn't want to pay for the hangar any more, so their planes have been out on the ramp the last couple of months.
The line crew put the other club's planes away in the hangar due to the approaching storms, and left our 182 out on the ramp. Glad we paid all that extra money for a hangar to keep our planes safe.
fiveoboy01
Pattern Altitude
A friend of mine has a Piper hangared somewhere on the South ramp... he posted that pic on FB. I didn't realize it was your guys' plane. That's too bad nobody tied it down with that sort of weather on the way....
NineThreeKilo
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nddons
Touchdown! Greaser!
Well, we'll know later today. Adjuster is looking at it at 3.
Nope. First thing the GM at the FBO said upon meeting up with our maintenance officer yesterday was "I'm sorry, we screwed up." Not to mention, we know they got the call 'cuz they *did* come down and top it off. Still no idea why they'd top it off and then not put it away, but...
What??? He OBVIOUSLY didn't consult his lawyer, who would have NEVER told him to tell the truth.
Good for him though. I like the truth.
denverpilot
Tied Down
I had that with an auto accident. Got all ticked that some of the paperwork looked like I was at fault, called and found out it was the same carrier (it was a hit and run but I had some minimal info on the elderly lady driver and a 911 tape of me watching her drive off after an hour waiting for Denver City Police) and they were doing it all as no-fault claims for both parties. Even the insurer couldn't figure it out. She lied to them and I had a 911 tape. They elected to punt.
denverpilot
Tied Down
Oh, and I forgot to mention the biggest kick in the teeth with all this.
Our planes are in a large community hangar which is why they're taken out and put away by FBO personnel. There's another club on the field that used to also have their planes in the same hangar, but they apparently decided they didn't want to pay for the hangar any more, so their planes have been out on the ramp the last couple of months.
The line crew put the other club's planes away in the hangar due to the approaching storms, and left our 182 out on the ramp. Glad we paid all that extra money for a hangar to keep our planes safe.
Sounds like you'd better track all the hours your folks spend working on the problem that they caused, and then have a little chat with them about how many months of free hangar space they'll be giving you, to clear that bill.
Dan Thomas
Touchdown! Greaser!
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flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
Yep, I talked to him yesterday - He was likely the last person to see her "alive" (or at least upright) as he was working in his hangar at 10 PM-ish and saw her on her wheels.
And forget tying it down, it should have been in the hangar 16 hours before that gust hit... Sigh.
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
What??? He OBVIOUSLY didn't consult his lawyer, who would have NEVER told him to tell the truth.
Good for him though. I like the truth.
This. The GM's a good guy.
denverpilot
Tied Down
Lots of good people are still liable for their mistakes.
Not telling you guys to be jerks but there's a measure of time plus effort in our society. It's called $.
The problem is, his insurance company will get it out of him, one way or another...
Badger
Pattern Altitude
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Badger
Are you saying the insurance company could go after FBO employees personally? like line workers, etc?