RIP, Skylane N271G. :(

Badger said:
Are you saying the insurance company could go after FBO employees personally? like line workers, etc?
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That would be a silly thing to do. It's unlikely those workers have the money the insurance company is trying to get.
 
Huh? :dunno:

denverpilot said:
Lots of good people are still liable for their mistakes.

Not telling you guys to be jerks but there's a measure of time plus effort in our society. It's called $.

The problem is, his insurance company will get it out of him, one way or another...
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Kent,
Did the adjuster give an initial damage assessment yet?
 
sorry to hear that.

Hope the club can turn this into a positive opportunity.
 
One expects to see a chalk outline around it on the tarmac, like a crime scene.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Oh, and I forgot to mention the biggest kick in the teeth with all this.

Our planes are in a large community hangar which is why they're taken out and put away by FBO personnel. There's another club on the field that used to also have their planes in the same hangar, but they apparently decided they didn't want to pay for the hangar any more, so their planes have been out on the ramp the last couple of months.

The line crew put the other club's planes away in the hangar due to the approaching storms, and left our 182 out on the ramp. Glad we paid all that extra money for a hangar to keep our planes safe. :mad2: :mad2: :mad2:
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OUCH! That stings:(

Badger said:
Are you saying the insurance company could go after FBO employees personally? like line workers, etc?
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That is not likely to happen.

flyingcheesehead said:
Total loss. We should be getting a $70K check for it within a week. Its next trip will be to OSH in pieces on its way to salvage.
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Anyone know what the Insurance Co is likely to get for parting it out? I'm wondering what the salvage value is of all the parts that aren't bent, avionics etc.
 
AdamZ said:
Anyone know what the Insurance Co is likely to get for parting it out? I'm wondering what the salvage value is of all the parts that aren't bent, avionics etc.
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I would think maybe in the $30K range. G430W, S-TEC 50, JPI, Reiff heater, I would imagine all the cylinders can be used, dunno if a single untouched prop blade with about 700 SNEW is worth anything, and we just had all the interior plastics and some other interior work and new windows done within the past year. Oh, and relatively new fuel bladders, and... Sigh.
 
If you hear where the insurance company is taking her, we could use some plastic parts. ;)

(Yeah, I'm a leech. Every dead 182 is a potential parts source for ours. Heh.)
 
denverpilot said:
If you hear where the insurance company is taking her, we could use some plastic parts. ;)

(Yeah, I'm a leech. Every dead 182 is a potential parts source for ours. Heh.)
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I was surprised at this, but they actually gave us permission for some minor cannibalization - The LED landing lights, for example.

Like I said, it's going to OSH. Come to the show, maybe you can buy some pieces. :)
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I was surprised at this, but they actually gave us permission for some minor cannibalization - The LED landing lights, for example.

Like I said, it's going to OSH. Come to the show, maybe you can buy some pieces. :)
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Where will it be at the show?
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I would think maybe in the $30K range. G430W, S-TEC 50, JPI, Reiff heater, I would imagine all the cylinders can be used, dunno if a single untouched prop blade with about 700 SNEW is worth anything, and we just had all the interior plastics and some other interior work and new windows done within the past year. Oh, and relatively new fuel bladders, and... Sigh.
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If that is a Hartzel prop it is DOA, the AP has limited value due to S-Tecs STC policy, the big ticket items will be the GPS and the engine.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I was surprised at this, but they actually gave us permission for some minor cannibalization - The LED landing lights, for example.

Like I said, it's going to OSH. Come to the show, maybe you can buy some pieces. :)
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Missed the OSH part. Doesn't look like I'll be there.

We may be hunting for a newish plastic center console. I can't remember if your model year matches ours.
 
Skylane81E said:
Doesn't look like it would be too terribly hard to repair, but given the age it is probably FAR from worth it.
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Looks are deceiving. It's totaled.

The whole empanage is toast. The struts are bent. That could mean damage to the wings. Prop twisted?

Could this be rebuilt? Yes, but not for less than the cost of a replacement.

Sorry to hear this, but hopefully there's a chance to get something that wears just as well as the old plane, maybe better.
 
bflynn said:
Looks are deceiving. It's totaled.

The whole empanage is toast. The struts are bent. That could mean damage to the wings. Prop twisted?

Could this be rebuilt? Yes, but not for less than the cost of a replacement.

Sorry to hear this, but hopefully there's a chance to get something that wears just as well as the old plane, maybe better.
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Spot on, all flying surfaces go to Williams, new struts, new prop, good check of the engine and fix the aft fuselage. Easy, but costly
 
wabower said:
No they won't. Carriers expect some claims and the market is very competitive.
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Fair point, our flight school has had boo boos (who hasn't) and the rates didn't skyrocket. We also worked with them to help reduce the odds of the same kind of whoops happening twice with changes to rental rules, currency requirements and the like.
 
jtheune said:
Where will it be at the show?
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Not specifically the show, but I guess a company called Meyers that does salvage from OSH came and took it away today.

Skylane81E said:
Spot on, all flying surfaces go to Williams, new struts, new prop, good check of the engine and fix the aft fuselage. Easy, but costly
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Gonna need new wings too. Bent along a fore-aft line near the strut attachments as well as inboard-outboard bends for nearly the whole length of the wings. Fuselage is bent near the strut attach points as well.

Ironically, this is not the first time the tail has been busted off 71G in a storm - Sometime in the 80's a storm blew through while it was tied down at an airport and a jet that was not tied down went for a ride right through the tail.
 
wabower said:
No they won't. Carriers expect some claims and the market is very competitive.
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In some lines of underwriting, they're all sharing claims data these days. Not sure about aviation but if they're not, it won't be long. Personalized rates inside of groups. It's coming. Gotta love databases.
 
Bad assumptions.

GA is a tiny segment of the industry and the accidents are already well-known among the carriers, agents, adjusters (many of whom are independents who represent several carriers) and salvage yards.

The current rates are based on claim history. Ground accidents including those similar to Kent's have traditionally accounted for up to 50% (as confirmed by Avemco) of claim losses. The companies know some will occur, even with the hangar closed and locked, and the loss expectancy constitutes a high percentage of the hull premium.

A few years ago a number of tornadoes struck numerous north TX airports, flattened hangars and damaged a number of hangared planes, some of which were immeditately totaled (like a friend's new King Air 90) and some which were slightly damaged (like his brother's Cessna 180 that suffered sheet metal damage from a falling light fixture.)

The number of carriers participating in the GA market has increased from the 4-5 companies that dominated the industry for many years to 14-16 that now offer coverage. Finally, a high percentage of GA policies are reinsured or coinsured within the industry, so nobody takes a big hit.

denverpilot said:
In some lines of underwriting, they're all sharing claims data these days. Not sure about aviation but if they're not, it won't be long. Personalized rates inside of groups. It's coming. Gotta love databases.
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hankrausch said:
One expects to see a chalk outline around it on the tarmac, like a crime scene.
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I bet a photo of that will go in the FBOs break room. Maybe even on the dashboard of the vehicle typically used to drive from main building over to the hangar where 71G was kept....
 
wabower said:
Bad assumptions.

GA is a tiny segment of the industry and the accidents are already well-known among the carriers, agents, adjusters (many of whom are independents who represent several carriers) and salvage yards.

The current rates are based on claim history. Ground accidents including those similar to Kent's have traditionally accounted for up to 50% (as confirmed by Avemco) of claim losses. The companies know some will occur, even with the hangar closed and locked, and the loss expectancy constitutes a high percentage of the hull premium.

A few years ago a number of tornadoes struck numerous north TX airports, flattened hangars and damaged a number of hangared planes, some of which were immeditately totaled (like a friend's new King Air 90) and some which were slightly damaged (like his brother's Cessna 180 that suffered sheet metal damage from a falling light fixture.)

The number of carriers participating in the GA market has increased from the 4-5 companies that dominated the industry for many years to 14-16 that now offer coverage. Finally, a high percentage of GA policies are reinsured or coinsured within the industry, so nobody takes a big hit.
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Interesting info. Thanks Wayne.
 
SCCutler said:
Wayne knows stuff.
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:rofl: The Missus is demanding time for CX.

FWIW, the changes in the insurance environment have largely worked in our favor as pilots and plane owners. Required pilot quals and training/checkout requirements have softened since the '08 crash, as have premiums and underwriting standards.

In 2007, a M/E rated pilot moving up to a pressurized cabin class twin could expect ~50 hours of sim, IOE and solo time prior to carrying pax. That number has dropped by ~50%. I hope it continues.
 
jhausch said:
I bet a photo of that will go in the FBOs break room. Maybe even on the dashboard of the vehicle typically used to drive from main building over to the hangar where 71G was kept....
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Where I worked there was a file full of ooopsie pictures from the years. They were labeled the "FBO Darwin Awards" a lot of them weren't even our mistakes (though some were no doubt) but reminders to keep complacency out of our jobs.
 
Just found this picture of 271G at 6Y9 from a few years ago. I am pretty sure that I am the plane that is taking off, so I don't recall who took this photo.
 

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Update: Board meeting Wednesday, full club meeting Sunday to make the final decision as to what type to buy for a replacement.
 
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