Reputation points

Richard said:
You know, until today I had clicked on the green dot only once before and that only because I was curious. And, until today, I had no idea each post carries a rep and may include a personal note from someone about that post. I feel some paranoia coming on...if I were to start wearing my aluminum helmet again would that help?
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Of course it would, especially if you take a pic and post it for us to confirm if it's the correct design! Remember: shiny side OUT!! :goofy:
 
Brian Austin said:
Of course it would, especially if you take a pic and post it for us to confirm if it's the correct design! Remember: shiny side OUT!! :goofy:
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If you put the shiny side out, what is supposed to reflect your brain waves back into your head instead of letting them leak out to be picked up by passive sensors?

BTW, I just remembered actually using the foil hat thing a long time ago with a woman convinced we had aliens on base. Every day she was at the gate all worried. I used my kevlar helmet as a mold and wrapped foil around it, and presented her with a fine hat. Kept her happy for a while. Then she found something else to worry about.
 
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NickDBrennan said:
So if someone leaves rep, but isn't at the magic 50 post yet, when they get there, does their rep add count?
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No, and as your own personal reputation power increases, the old hits you give do not increase in value.

Negative reputation hits are always 1 point, as well. So in my case, due to my post count, I can add 2 points but only take 1 point.
 
bubba said:
I also think that one day, the people who stir up crap will be sitting there with a red reputation meter.
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Where do you even check to see if someone dinged you?
EB[/QUOTE]

There may be other routes, but IIRC, clicking "User CP" on the tool bar will take you to the "dings/praise" section.
 
wbarnhill said:
I don't really subscribe to the whole rep system either. I've made my own comments about it, and I don't think I've passed out any negs (someone can check on this I'm sure). The dings I've seen tend to come from discussions that can get heated, and that's no way to foster discussion/debate. It's a, quite frankly, ignorant way to say "HA, I got the last laugh!" Furthermore, if people have an opinion that's of the minority, they could get dinged a number of times on the same topic, effectively squelching the individual since they'll end up being seen as a troll for that little red dot.
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The reputation system has a number of controls on it to prevent this very issue, and from what I've seen of how it operates from behind the scenes, they work.

The rep system really has flaws when it comes down to it, and not much can be done in the way of checking and making sure that points are issued with valid reasons (at least for neg hits)
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This is not a correct statement.

unless one of the PoA management team want to stay up all night going through the dings and associated posts ;)
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We actually have been monitoring the use of the reputation system for potential abuse, and have privately dealt with more than one request to look into a potential "hit" abuse.
 
I've never really paid attention to rep points, don't know what my "score" is and don't know how to find out anyone else's (although I do see those little green squares, which I think are the rep level, right?)
 
There may be other routes, but IIRC, clicking "User CP" on the tool bar will take you to the "dings/praise" section.

I went there and I still don't see it.
Do you have to have more than "X" number of posts or something?

Eric
________
Coach Purses
 
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Brian Austin said:
As much as a few folks don't like it, it works. Those who get a little sensitive about taking negative hits might want to take a look at the posts in question and ask "how could I have sent the same message without irritating someone?" Those less sensitive will simply treat it as it is: an informal feedback tool.
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Just looking through my posts. Got one hit for asking someone to prove that economists were "left wing propoganda" machines. Got one for suggesting that people should forgive others. And I even got one for bringing up the very topic this thread is based on. Please, go read my posts, and tell me how I could've stated each one so as not to have gotten the hit. I beg you, since I'm being overly sensitive.

I'm sorry Brian, but the rep point system does have flaws, and it does nothing to promote discussion. You can claim it works, you can claim that only 5% of all hits are negative, and you can even try to claim that it's usually 'tit-for-tat' exchanges, though I guess I can't see how that's possible (since it's anonymous) unless people are just guessing who dinged them and ding someone at random hoping that's the culprit, which just leads to more negative hits, warranted or not. But the fact remains that the entire premise of an anonymous feedback system that changes the way you are viewed on the board will promote a majority rules mentality. People with less widely held viewpoints will receive dings while the people in majority get positive hits, because the system specifically states "Approve" or "Disapprove". Finally, I know you think that ONLY a troll will be able to get into the red and stay there, but think about this. I never got a single positive hit until I posted the thread on the rep points. Had I continued to participate in threads, I doubt I would've received a positive hit (we're not counting the less than 50 grey hits, as they could be either). Given a few more threads, I would've been below 0. It can happen, and with enough time, it more than likely will.
 
bubba said:
There may be other routes, but IIRC, clicking "User CP" on the tool bar will take you to the "dings/praise" section.

I went there and I still don't see it.
Do you have to have more than "X" number of posts or something?

Eric
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I don't think so. I was able to view "Latest Reputation Given/Received" when I first signed up (empty of course). These two lists only show up when you first click on "User CP". AFaIK, once you select any page from the list on the left you can't get back to reputation without clicking on "User CP" again.
 
Until this post, I had no idea how the reputation stuff worked at all, or whether I had been dinged or praised. I understand now how the reputation CP stuff works. Thanks those who have sent me little green squares. Appreciated.

I post what I think, but I try to temper what I post by thinking a bit about how others will feel before I hit the submit button.

I think this board would work fine without the reputation system at all. It has been great for me so far, and until today I had no idea how it worked at all. I do agree that, if we are going to post reputation points, it certainly would be less of a contentious issue if people could not post anonymously. It is telling that the negative posts appear to be filed mostly anonymously, and the positive ones, certainly the ones that I have, appear to be going on attached to member names. That says something about how reputation is being used.

You should be able to post discussions in an adult manner, having genuine, even contentious, discussions, without being mean or rude or impolite. And we should not need a reputation system to assign points for this. IMHO.

Jim G
 
People with less widely held viewpoints will receive dings while the people in majority get positive hits, because the system specifically states "Approve" or "Disapprove".
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That assumes that the users here can't distinguish between position/opinion and attitude.

In discourse, the ideal (for me, anyway) in someone holding the opposite position is that they express it in such a manner that while I disagree I end up respecting them more. Voltaire's quote about disagreeing but defending your right to your opinion fits here.

On the other hand, if someone's posts are a combination of personal attacks and language that would cause continuous tones on bleeped network TV they are much less convincing and actually a BAD representative of their position.

My own use of reputation - I generally dispense positive points for very funny posts or very useful posts - less often for strong defenses of "my side" of a tense issue. Negative reputation points are generally reserved for those who are abusive in their defense of the "other side" of a tense issue.

Chuck - is anybody actually in the red yet? It seems like everybody has one green square anyway.
 
Brian Austin said:
Of course it would, especially if you take a pic and post it for us to confirm if it's the correct design! Remember: shiny side OUT!! :goofy:
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THAT'S what I have been doing wrong! dayumm :D
 
I'm surprised at the amount of discontent about this. If folks are all that concerned about this issue, perhaps they should make an effort to control the type of posts they make. I give out good ones, I give out bad ones, though I have a self imposed limit on how many of them I give out. I never give out a bad one when I'm torqued about something, but after thinking about it if I still don't like the post or think it's out of line with the tone of this site, it goes. This site encourages the anonymous use of the system, so that's how I play the game. It's their rules, their game, and I play by it. Frankly, I think the reputation system is working, because it appears people care enough to keep track, and be upset when they don't get what they want. If you care, consider carefully what you post. Some of you seem to need to get over thinking that your opinions are not subject to review. Sorry, but if you post an opinion, particularly on a couple sensitive topics, someone might disagree, and choose to make it known privately. That's the way it is. Given how many positive comments I've received, I've got to say that if someone is getting a bunch of negatives, they might want to take a look in the mirror, because there are a lot of folks here, including some on the management team, that don't particularly like me personally. Such is life in any community, and ya'll are no more immune to that fact than I am. Sure, I've gotten some negatives, but none I consider particularly unfair. No doubt there are some out there who will ding folks based on a personal dislike, and some will come my way, but by and large I think people are using the system as designed.

BTW, if there is someone you really don't like, this site does have an ignore feature. I'm making use of it, and recommend it to others.
 
bubba said:
There may be other routes, but IIRC, clicking "User CP" on the tool bar will take you to the "dings/praise" section.

I went there and I still don't see it.
Do you have to have more than "X" number of posts or something?

Eric
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Maybe you didn't have any? Try again, cause you do now. The top section is the last ten rep points you've given others, below that is the last 10 rep points you've received.
 
wbarnhill said:
Just looking through my posts. Got one hit for asking someone to prove that economists were "left wing propoganda" machines. Got one for suggesting that people should forgive others. And I even got one for bringing up the very topic this thread is based on. Please, go read my posts, and tell me how I could've stated each one so as not to have gotten the hit. I beg you, since I'm being overly sensitive.

I'm sorry Brian, but the rep point system does have flaws, and it does nothing to promote discussion. You can claim it works, you can claim that only 5% of all hits are negative, and you can even try to claim that it's usually 'tit-for-tat' exchanges, though I guess I can't see how that's possible (since it's anonymous) unless people are just guessing who dinged them and ding someone at random hoping that's the culprit, which just leads to more negative hits, warranted or not. But the fact remains that the entire premise of an anonymous feedback system that changes the way you are viewed on the board will promote a majority rules mentality. People with less widely held viewpoints will receive dings while the people in majority get positive hits, because the system specifically states "Approve" or "Disapprove". Finally, I know you think that ONLY a troll will be able to get into the red and stay there, but think about this. I never got a single positive hit until I posted the thread on the rep points. Had I continued to participate in threads, I doubt I would've received a positive hit (we're not counting the less than 50 grey hits, as they could be either). Given a few more threads, I would've been below 0. It can happen, and with enough time, it more than likely will.
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I'm not going back to re-read your negative reputation comments. As I stated before, it's a USER-to-USER based system, and not something that needs moderation unless there is abuse involved. Of the few times we've been asked to investigate something, I don't think we've actually changed anything. It was based on opinions that didn't violate any Rules of Conduct and, while I don't agree with their reasoning, they didn't really do anything out of line.

If I remember correctly, one of your posts (relating to reputation as well) specifically stated you like "stirring the pot". In fact, a search even shows it at: http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1359&highlight=stirring+pot

Stirring the pot isn't valid debating in a lot of people's eyes. It's called trolling more often than not.

People have been a lot more tolerant of other's positions here than elsewhere, I've noticed. Some of that is due to the rather silent moderation going on. I also attribute a little to the reputation system. Some people want the ability to shout, scream and call someone out when they don't like a comment directed at them in the reputation system. Some sort of defense becomes an emotional vendetta that leads to the downward spiral that has happened in the past. That's part of the reason for the anonymous nature of the system.

Political debate posts rarely get positive points. If that's all you participate in, you'll never end up building points from what I've seen. The stuff that gets a lot of approve hits are great questions and answers in Training as well as reports of recent flying adventures. I know a number of people have gotten a ton of points simply from posting great pictures of their adventures. That tells me that people are using the system the way they want to...which is what we intended all along. :)
 
The opinion expressed in this message is my own personal opinion. I realize I'm potentially inviting some negative reputation points by saying this, but I'm going to say it anyway...

The problem that I see it is that the reputation system used here encourages people to either be like/think like/post like/act like everyone else or face the music (and potentially receive negative feedback).

One of the things that makes this country (and community) great is we can disagree with each other. I don't have to be like/think like/post like/act like everyone else. I can be an individual. If my opinion differs from the rest of the community, should I be punished because of that alone?

I would like to think that negative reputation is not given out just on the basis that someone doesn't like someone else or their opinion - but who knows. I know why I give out reputation (good and bad), but who can tell what factors into anyone else's reasoning.

As such, it's sort of a meaningless metric that could cause someone of value to this community to not express their opinion out of fear, or worse, cause them to go elsewhere. That's what I hope never happens. Everyone here has something of value to say, and everyone here who cares to speak up is important to the community.

Edit: This of course, assumes that you are posting within the Rules of Conduct. :yes:
 
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inav8r said:
The problem that I see it is that the reputation system used here encourages people to either be like/think like/post like/act like everyone else or face the music (and potentially receive negative feedback).
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Actually, that's exactly what ISN'T happening here in the majority of cases. I have seen a few "I agree completely but don't want to post" kind of comments but overall, it's simply not used that way.

And I have seen a few surprises. People who normally are on opposite ends of the political spectrum have given each other positive comments, even in a political debate. While I'm not quite sure why, I suspect it's the way their viewpoints were handled. Basically, it's their way of saying "I don't agree but I appreciate the civil discourse and respect your position".

As I've noted before, negative feedback is fairly rare here and almost never outside of a controversial (ie political, religious, etc.) type post.
 
Joe Williams said:
Frankly, I think the reputation system is working, because it appears people care enough to keep track, and be upset when they don't get what they want. If you care, consider carefully what you post.
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And that sums it up quite nicely. :)
 
I have to concur with Brian's observations.

I am not seeing reputation remarks as being used as a way to encourage "group think". When someone posts an opposing political view respectfully, we see positive hits.

We do often see people get negative hits for making generalizing or negative statements about one party or another.

In any case, I've posted a poll to put this matter to bed. There's been plenty of time gone by now to make a final decision about the state of "Reputation". :)
 
What I object to is that one can get either a good or a bad hit, but if there's no text to go along with it, we have no clue what we said that was good, or what we might have said that was bad or hurtful to someone. If I get negative point, I can neither defend myself nor correct my behavior if all I got was that slap on the hand with no feedback on what that person was objecting to.

So maybe the answer isn't to either keep or to get rid of the reputation system, but instead, to modify it a bit..... if that's even possible?

BTW, I understand both sides of the debate on this one and realize that it's a good tool for you moderators to know if an individual is becoming offensive...... which has happened once or twice on the internet I understand. :)~

Personnally, I believe the heavy moderation here is what keeps this place as nice as it is, not the reputation system, but it's YOUR message board. YOU make the decisions on the set-up here. You can't please everyone.
 
actually, there is a way to tell which post was good/bad - when you click on your user CP - it shows your list of dots... click on the thread name and it goes right to your post that prompted the person to give you the red/green button.
 
Moxie said:
Personnally, I believe the heavy moderation here is what keeps this place as nice as it is, not the reputation system
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You think the moderation here is heavy? I can only think of a handful of times when moderators have intervened, and only a couple where we've even DISCUSSED intervening because of escalating tensions.

I think it's more that users perceive there's a cop at the intersection, so they don't plan to run the light.
 
Ken Ibold said:
You think the moderation here is heavy? I can only think of a handful of times when moderators have intervened, and only a couple where we've even DISCUSSED intervening because of escalating tensions.

I think it's more that users perceive there's a cop at the intersection, so they don't plan to run the light.
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Well someone let the cat out of the bag now. ;)

Seriously, you'd be surprised at how little moderation is required, Moxie. Ken is right about how often we've had to do something. We're here but rarely have to get involved in anything. I think we cover all of the different threads amongst us but I know I personally don't read everything in every thread. I rely on the rest of the Council here as well as the Bad Post function if something gets out of line.
 
Moxie said:
What I object to is that one can get either a good or a bad hit, but if there's no text to go along with it, we have no clue what we said that was good, or what we might have said that was bad or hurtful to someone. If I get negative point, I can neither defend myself nor correct my behavior if all I got was that slap on the hand with no feedback on what that person was objecting to.
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I would agree with this. It's real easy to ding someone when you don't have to explain your reason. People could send a private message if they disagree with a post, approach, or tone in a post - but it's easier just to ding the reputation and move on. There is no downside to making a negative ding - and no real incentive to provide positive feedback.

So maybe the answer isn't to either keep or to get rid of the reputation system, but instead, to modify it a bit..... if that's even possible?
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I'm not sure how you modify it, and still keep it's intended function, which is an anonymous system to rate posters. I know I have given out much more positive than negative, but then if everyone is doing that, what is the point of the system when everyone has a good reputation ?

BTW, I understand both sides of the debate on this one and realize that it's a good tool for you moderators to know if an individual is becoming offensive...... which has happened once or twice on the internet I understand. :)~

Personnally, I believe the heavy moderation here is what keeps this place as nice as it is, not the reputation system, but it's YOUR message board. YOU make the decisions on the set-up here. You can't please everyone.
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I must admit, I haven't seen any 'heavy' moderation - compared to some boards I've used, this place is pretty open, although I only really read HT consistently. I believe this board is as civil as it is because most of the members accept reasoned argument above entrenched opinion. They dont appear to dismiss arguments out of hand because they don't agree with the position of the poster.
 
I wouldn't say we have "heavy moderation".

I'd say we have "rules of conduct" with teeth. :)
 
lancefisher said:
I don't think so. I was able to view "Latest Reputation Given/Received" when I first signed up (empty of course). These two lists only show up when you first click on "User CP". AFaIK, once you select any page from the list on the left you can't get back to reputation without clicking on "User CP" again.
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Hmmm... I wasn't able to see "Latest Reputation Given/Received" until some time after signing up. I hadn't visited my User CP in a while and clicked on it, and there were the two reputation fields, along with an Edit Avatar link that hadn't been there before (I had asked some people about why I couldn't see that when I first signed on, and everyone agreed it was a problem with my browser - well nothing has changed in that department). But I don't see any fields or links labelled Dings or Praise, and it seems that "Latest Reputation Given" and "Latest Reputation Received" are exactly that, only the latest... unless I've only received one since signing on, since that's all I see (and FWIW that one was very positive). I also don't see any way to tell my total reputation points.

And frankly, I'm quite happy to be blissfully unaware of how many people have anonymously "dinged" my reputation. I'll weigh in on the side of those who don't think this whole "reputation" thing is such a great idea. I'm all for a system for user-user feedback off the discussion forums, but isn't that purpose served equally well by private messenging? It sounds as if with rep points, (almost?) everyone can see everyone else's "score", and if anyone can "ding" or "praise" anyone else for any subjective reason, I don't consider that terribly useful information - if anything, the system would IMHO tend to promote blandness by discouraging people who care about such things from expressing strong opinions on controversial issues. Having said that, I'll cover my butt with a disclaimer that I don't seem to see everything on my display here that most other people do, so I'm basing this probably worthless opinion on what I've read on this thread. In particular, I don't know how to see anyone's score including my own, other than the fortune cookie-like captions that come up when you mouse over the little green dot (I'm guessing that each caption corresponds to a range of rep points?).

Liz
 
woodstock said:
actually, there is a way to tell which post was good/bad - when you click on your user CP - it shows your list of dots... click on the thread name and it goes right to your post that prompted the person to give you the red/green button.
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That's true, but that doesn't actually tell us much, just that that was the good/offensive post. Not what/why.
 
Ken Ibold said:
You think the moderation here is heavy? I can only think of a handful of times when moderators have intervened, and only a couple where we've even DISCUSSED intervening because of escalating tensions.

I think it's more that users perceive there's a cop at the intersection, so they don't plan to run the light.
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Heavily morderated in that the moderators have a large involvement and use the forums themselves regulary. (/me used confusing verbiage.)

Just the fact that y'all are here and are so visible is what keeps it from being a free-for-all.

So you're correct about the cop thing.
 
Greebo said:
I am not seeing reputation remarks as being used as a way to encourage "group think". When someone posts an opposing political view respectfully, we see positive hits.

We do often see people get negative hits for making generalizing or negative statements about one party or another.
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Well then if this is the case then IMHO reputation is working as it should. Thanks for the insight Brian & Chuck.
 
Brian Austin said:
Wow. I felt that. Does this mean you're not going to cash my 'please be my friend' check this month? :goofy:
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Of course we will! Why else would we keep you around?!?!
:rofl:
 
Greebo said:
Of course we will! Why else would we keep you around?!?!
:rofl:
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Great!

When do you think Chip is going to notice I'm drawing it off of his account? :goofy: :rofl:
 
You know, if you just made *everyone* an administrator, then we'd all be kept busy being responsible adults and you wouldn't ever have another problem.
 
Moxie said:
You know, if you just made *everyone* an administrator, then we'd all be kept busy being responsible adults and you wouldn't ever have another problem.
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:rofl: :hairraise: :rofl: :hairraise: :rofl: :hairraise: :rofl: :hairraise:
:no: :no: :no: :no:
 
Ken Ibold said:
OK, how many people have checked their reputation about 10 times since this thread started???
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Your post just gave me an insane and irresistable urge to do so. Kind of like coming across a group of people looking at the sky :rofl:
 
Or staring at the ground...

I once had half of my class helping me search the ground for a $3.00 bill I lost.

(OK they were third graders and pretty easy to fool...)
 
Greebo said:
Or staring at the ground...

I once had half of my class helping me search the ground for a $3.00 bill I lost.

(OK they were third graders and pretty easy to fool...)
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So, when do you graduate? :rofl:

Joe <--- decides to toss a rep point to the winds
 
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