Renting sucks

jesse said:
Master switch, no, magnetos yes.

If it's a fuel injected bird you'll need power to prime or there's likely no chance in hell it will fire by hand.

All of that said, many rental companies will be pretty upset if they see a renter hand propping...for various reasons.
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Sure it will, the pump is positive displacement mechanical. If you want to prime with no electricity, full rich, full throttle, pull the prop through a few times (depending on temp/vapor lock issues) to spray fuel into the cylinders to prime.

FI engines prop up no worries.
 
Henning said:
Sure it will, the pump is positive displacement mechanical. If you want to prime with no electricity, full rich, full throttle, pull the prop through a few times (depending on temp/vapor lock issues) to spray fuel into the cylinders to prime.

FI engines prop up no worries.
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Uh huh..... I've yet to see a fuel injected Continental that will start if the electric fuel pump won't come online to prime. Regardless of how much you crank the thing with the starter with the throttle and mixture full rich.

The issue isn't the mechanical, the issue is that without being able to prime with the electric pump there is no way in hell you're going to get these things to fire.

Of course, I could be entirely wrong, but next time you're in LNK I'll buy you lunch if you can prop start a IO-520 on a Bonanza without using the electric pump, or spraying a bunch of **** into the intake.

That said, I've propped six cylinders enough to know that I want nothing to do with trying it again unless my life depends on it. I just DO NOT like how close the cylinders fire for the amount of prop swing you can get.

I can't say I've ever tried to start a IO-360 without the electric fuel pump, haven't flown behind them much, so I don't know what your results would be.
 
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jesse said:
Uh huh..... I've yet to see a fuel injected Continental that will start if the electric fuel pump won't come online to prime. Regardless of how much you crank the thing with the starter with the throttle and mixture full rich.

The issue isn't the mechanical, the issue is that without being able to prime with the electric pump there is no way in hell you're going to get these things to fire.

Of course, I could be entirely wrong, but next time you're in LNK I'll buy you lunch if you can prop start a IO-520 on a Bonanza without using the electric pump, or spraying a bunch of **** into the intake.

That said, I've propped six cylinders enough to know that I want nothing to do with trying it again unless my life depends on it. I just DO NOT like how close the cylinders fire for the amount of prop swing you can get.

I can't say I've ever tried to start a IO-360 without the electric fuel pump, haven't flown behind them much, so I don't know what your results would be.
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Is that the one that barely starts with the electric pump?
 
rbridges said:
when FBOs want checkouts (every 6 months for example), is that if you haven't flown their plane during that time? or is the checkout regardless of how often you've flown their plane?
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I can't speak for all of them, but the one I spoke with today, I asked that exact question. I said if I get checked out in your plane today, then fly the exact same type plane elsewhere for 90 days, then come back here, I still have to do a checkout? yep. he said it would most likely be 3 t/o and landings but yeah, they want to make sure you haven't forgotten how to fly THEIR (same exact) plane.
 
eman1200 said:
I can't speak for all of them, but the one I spoke with today, I asked that exact question. I said if I get checked out in your plane today, then fly the exact same type plane elsewhere for 90 days, then come back here, I still have to do a checkout? yep. he said it would most likely be 3 t/o and landings but yeah, they want to make sure you haven't forgotten how to fly THEIR (same exact) plane.
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It's their asset, their rules....For our rental gig I set the rule at six months. I'm willing to make exceptions to that if I *KNOW* the person has been flying. But if it's some guy I don't know who wrote a few entries in his logbook..no thanks.
 
jesse said:
It's their asset, their rules....For our rental gig I set the rule at six months. I'm willing to make exceptions to that if I *KNOW* the person has been flying. But if it's some guy I don't know who wrote a few entries in his logbook..no thanks.
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yep, and I didn't argue it. of all the crazy rules an fbo 'could' have, I was ok with this, but mostly because I'm confident I'll fly within that 90 day period.
 
jesse said:
Uh huh..... I've yet to see a fuel injected Continental that will start if the electric fuel pump won't come online to prime. Regardless of how much you crank the thing with the starter with the throttle and mixture full rich.

The issue isn't the mechanical, the issue is that without being able to prime with the electric pump there is no way in hell you're going to get these things to fire.

Of course, I could be entirely wrong, but next time you're in LNK I'll buy you lunch if you can prop start a IO-520 on a Bonanza without using the electric pump, or spraying a bunch of **** into the intake.

That said, I've propped six cylinders enough to know that I want nothing to do with trying it again unless my life depends on it. I just DO NOT like how close the cylinders fire for the amount of prop swing you can get.

I can't say I've ever tried to start a IO-360 without the electric fuel pump, haven't flown behind them much, so I don't know what your results would be.
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If you can't, you have problems. I have propped up Senecas, 206s, Bonanzas, no problem. If you need to prime, keep pulling the prop through full rich, full throttle. If you cannot prime the engine this way, there is an issue with your pump.
 
jesse said:
Uh huh..... I've yet to see a fuel injected Continental that will start if the electric fuel pump won't come online to prime. Regardless of how much you crank the thing with the starter with the throttle and mixture full rich.

The issue isn't the mechanical, the issue is that without being able to prime with the electric pump there is no way in hell you're going to get these things to fire.

Of course, I could be entirely wrong, but next time you're in LNK I'll buy you lunch if you can prop start a IO-520 on a Bonanza without using the electric pump, or spraying a bunch of **** into the intake.

That said, I've propped six cylinders enough to know that I want nothing to do with trying it again unless my life depends on it. I just DO NOT like how close the cylinders fire for the amount of prop swing you can get.

I can't say I've ever tried to start a IO-360 without the electric fuel pump, haven't flown behind them much, so I don't know what your results would be.
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The problem isn't fuel, it's spark. Many (most?) Continentals use vibrator spark generators rather than impulse mags -- no buzzee, no startee. :(
 
N5922S said:
The problem isn't fuel, it's spark. Many (most?) Continentals use vibrator spark generators rather than impulse mags -- no buzzee, no startee. :(
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I've yet to see someone successfully fire up a IO-520 Bonzana, with the electric fuel pump INOP, even with the entire electrical system online and functional and able to crank the prop.
 
jesse said:
I've yet to see someone successfully fire up a IO-520 Bonzana, with the electric fuel pump INOP, even with the entire electrical system online and functional and able to crank the prop.
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They aren't pulling through enough blades to prime, it takes 20 or even more if it's cold.
 
Renting really sucks! I've been working on my PPL for over 3 years now simply because of the amount of people on the schedule to rent. Although I'm in a slighlty different situation that most of you all. I'm AD Air Force. I rarely get sent to a base where flying is available. Luckily I just made it to okinawa late last year and there's an aeroclub. Prices are pretty ok. I have no other renting experience other than military rental though. We have T41s (1968 model 172s) and a couple liberty XL2s. Rental is $129/hr including fuel. Plus if we have to fill up anywhere, the club reimburses us back at the cost they pay per gal. I would say that's a good deal. Given no other knowledge of rental cost haha. The part that makes it hard is simply the amount of people trying to rent. There's roughly 150 members and a constant flow of tour flights scheduled using on of the trainers. Every hour of everyday is booked it seems.

What do yall think? Is that about an average price of I was to rent the same airframe as a civilian stateside?
 
Mattibob said:
Renting really sucks! I've been working on my PPL for over 3 years now simply because of the amount of people on the schedule to rent. Although I'm in a slighlty different situation that most of you all. I'm AD Air Force. I rarely get sent to a base where flying is available. Luckily I just made it to okinawa late last year and there's an aeroclub. Prices are pretty ok. I have no other renting experience other than military rental though. We have T41s (1968 model 172s) and a couple liberty XL2s. Rental is $129/hr including fuel. Plus if we have to fill up anywhere, the club reimburses us back at the cost they pay per gal. I would say that's a good deal. Given no other knowledge of rental cost haha. The part that makes it hard is simply the amount of people trying to rent. There's roughly 150 members and a constant flow of tour flights scheduled using on of the trainers. Every hour of everyday is booked it seems.

What do yall think? Is that about an average price of I was to rent the same airframe as a civilian stateside?
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I think that's a reasonable average price even here, for Okinawa, that's a pretty good price. BTW the T-41 is most like the HawkXP.
 
I would think so. These T41s are converted to Mogas since avgas is over $14/gal here!
 
Renting only sucks if you truly want to take a lot of long trips.

If you just "think" you do but in reality won't or will only once a year, renting is the better choice. I've been in clubs and I've rented. Both have pluses and minuses.

I'm back to renting right now and it's great to be able to show up, fly, park the plane, pay for the hour and be done. No monthly dues. No shares to worry about selling. No long term commitment. I can go 2 months without flying because of weather and not lose hundreds in dues with no flight time.

And frankly, Hobbs vs. Tach is extremely subjective. Many four banger pistons have the clock/clock set at 2200RPM or so. So unless you are doing pattern work or you are sitting on the ground for 20 minutes pre-flight, tach time can cost you more then Hobbs in some situations.

With that said, I have a good deal. I only pay $105 an hour for a Cherokee that fits my current needs. I fly out of a small airport and I'm typically off the ground within 5 minutes of engine start. I know the owner well and he trusts me. It's a small FBO that isn't typically booked up. So I have a situation that works for me.

All I'm saying is make sure you really know what you want and need. Not what you think you want, but what you will really actually do. Don't drop a couple of grand on a club share, start paying $100 a month in dues, and then realize you are only going to fly two hours a month around the local area.
 
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I've rented almost 4 years now and still rarely have any trouble doing what I want. I am lucky because I found a place that lets me schedule, online, as far as I want in advance. So I can book a plane almost a week ahead of when I want to go. That's great.

The downside to renting is obvious-- it's not your plane. Truthfully though, that can be a plus too. When I tie the plane down my cares go away. That's a good thing. However, long overnight trips are impossible but, for now, I'm only taking short burger runs and sightseeing trips mostly by myself with the occasional buddy or family member who comes along. When the time comes when I'll be taking a wife and kids around I'll buy something( if I'm fortunate to be able to afforda good plane.) For now, I'm content renting.

If you find a good place to rent from, it makes renting a real good process.
 
evapilotaz said:
Renting sucks. As I sit here with my 12 year old son waiting for the airplane that suppose to be available 20 minutes ago is not. Plane is sitting there and I cannot get access to the keys.

Sorry for the rant.

Some day plane ownership
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I joined a partnership:dunno:
 
I've said it before. I belong to a club with 14 members and one airplane... The plane, so far, has always been there when I wanted it... I've owned before and can't remember that being any better, except for the bragging rights! But I still call it "my plane," when asked... After all it is (partially, as it were)
 
There's a lot about owning that sucks too. Grass is always greener...

Renting itself doesn't suck so much, but renting from a bad FBO does certainly suck.

If there are nice well maintained planes with good availability and decent FBO operations then renting actually has a lot going for it. Granted finding such options is not uniformly easy around the country.
 
Henning said:
I think that's a reasonable average price even here, for Okinawa, that's a pretty good price. BTW the T-41 is most like the HawkXP.
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I think Okinawa has T-41As, so pretty much stock 172s with O-300s. The B through D models share the IO-360 with the Hawk XPs.
 
Renting has it's place.

I now own an RV-6A so I can do my fun 2-place go anywhere on a moments notice FAST flying....

I also am a member of an equity club with a 4-seat and a 6-seat plane that do about 140IAS....

And I rent from time to time from some operators I like.

Renting is the way to expand your available mission profiles. Of course, my little guy is my favorite, but I'll move up the seating to bring more friends or bags along. :)
 
Henning said:
Does it share the 175 airframe as well?
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I think just the models with the Continental IO-360 (B, C, and D) as they are listed on 175 Type Certificate; T-41A is listed on the regular 172 certificate.
 
I don't regret owning one bit.

I just don't look too close at what it costs...:redface:
 
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