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RileyMitchum

RileyMitchum

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Apr 6, 2013
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RileyMitchum
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The place I rent from when taking up passengers costs me $159/hr! Now I got my ticket through the Civil Air Patrol where I can rent the plane for $29/hr + fuel :goofy:, so the $159 is horrific to me! Is the $159 a reasonable rate for aviation in general? Are fractional ownership's better/worse than renting? Just some things I ponder while I'm bored.
 
What kind of airplane is it? How well is it equipped?
 
steingar said:
You think your rental is bad, try owning.
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Cheap tie downs and pencil whipped annuals make ownership affordable... Right up until you'r ready sell and the pre-buys start rolling thru.
 
Here in Minnesota, near Minneapolis, a newer glass panel 172 rents from an FBO for about $130 an hour. I'm with a club, so keep in mind I had to buy a share (which I can resell), and I pay $100 a month. The cost per hour of a 172 with a Garmin 430 and IFR capable is $95 an hour.
 
steingar said:
You think your rental is bad, try owning.
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Fly more - less $/hr. Even my Comanche when I fly it 100-ish hrs a year is cheaper than the rental. $137 rings a bell for some reason, and that includes every single last penny associated with the plane.
 
EdFred said:
Fly more - less $/hr. Even my Comanche when I fly it 100-ish hrs a year is cheaper than the rental. $137 rings a bell for some reason, and that includes every single last penny associated with the plane.
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I'm right around $130/hr. Not too bad, considering a 172 rents for $100 here and the Dakota is $160/hr, Bonanza is $205.
 
1968 Arrow II went from $158 to $162 in 2013 around here. BTW, it has Aspen, but not being Instrument rated I don't really care, although glass is sure nifty.
 
125 an hour at my club located at CZVL for A 1973 C-172N. Our city center club @ CYXD is a bit more $$$$. 165 per hour for a 2000 C-172SP.

Owning is a money pit however. My last flight, my transponder started acting up. It's a rental, I advised maintenance and its fixed. That would be at least a 800 to 2000 touch for a private owner to replace or repair.

Barkley
 
Z06_Mir said:
I'm right around $130/hr. Not too bad, considering a 172 rents for $100 here and the Dakota is $160/hr, Bonanza is $205.
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If you include purchase cost and maintenance, my mooney is right around $1,900/hr for the amount I have flown it. I expect it to go down with time, hopefully.
 
Mine runs around $175-$185/ hour depending on how many hours I manage to get in.
That includes pretty much all related expenses.
 
DavidWhite said:
If you include purchase cost and maintenance, my mooney is right around $1,900/hr for the amount I have flown it. I expect it to go down with time, hopefully.
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I did not include the purchase price, just the MX, hangar, fuel, insurance. I haven't owned it quite a year yet, but at the year mark I'll put in some depreciation. Debits and Credits.
 
Z06_Mir said:
I did not include the purchase price, just the MX, hangar, fuel, insurance. I haven't owned it quite a year yet, but at the year mark I'll put in some depreciation. Debits and Credits.
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My 172 worked out to about $88/hr

The Mooney with mx is probably around $500/hr

I just don't fly it enough.
 
RileyMitchum said:
The place I rent from when taking up passengers costs me $159/hr! Now I got my ticket through the Civil Air Patrol where I can rent the plane for $29/hr + fuel :goofy:, so the $159 is horrific to me! Is the $159 a reasonable rate for aviation in general? Are fractional ownership's better/worse than renting? Just some things I ponder while I'm bored.
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Just curious, what does taking up passengers have to do with the cost? Do you rent a newer/cleaner/spiffier airplane to impress?

It should all be about the plane. If you rent a 152 regularly, and switch to a 172 to accommodate 2 friends, you're paying for the bigger aircraft. You shouldn't have to pay the FBO a surcharge to take someone along.

Here's a price list from a flying school at KFRG -- pricing affected by proximity to a major metropolitan area and what the local market will bear.
 

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DJTorrente said:
Do you rent a newer/cleaner/spiffier airplane to impress?
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No, but when I fly solo, I rent the cheapest airplane per mile. Surprisingly, there's a very large disparity in per mile cost. When I fly with passengers, I rent the fastest airplane for which I'm rated, which coincidentially has the highest cost both per hour and per mile. Although it's the fastest, the reduced flight time does not offset the increased rental rate. Bet you thought all light singles were the same? Try several FBOs if you have them.

Just to put a few numbers on this

Airplane X - beaten 150 with INOP VOR, broken power outlet, and rudder horn rubbing the fuselage - plan speed 85 knots - $2.40 per 2 nm

Airplane Y - spiffy LSA with glass all around, 696, traffic, ADS-B/FIS-B - plan speed 100 knots - $2.85 per 2 nm

Airplane Z - somewhat tired but kept in decent shape Arrow, Aspen glass - plan speed 135 knots - $3.80 per 2 nm

There's also a twin for rent that gets from Albuquerque to Phoenix in an hour. FBO owner keeps egging me to get my ME just so I could pay 4x the price of a 150 :-)
 
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RileyMitchum said:
The place I rent from when taking up passengers costs me $159/hr! Now I got my ticket through the Civil Air Patrol where I can rent the plane for $29/hr + fuel :goofy:, so the $159 is horrific to me! Is the $159 a reasonable rate for aviation in general? Are fractional ownership's better/worse than renting? Just some things I ponder while I'm bored.
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You can't take a CAP plane on vacation or for a $100 hamburger or anthing that isn't CAP or currency related so its not fair to compare.

DJTorrente said:
Just curious, what does taking up passengers have to do with the cost? Do you rent a newer/cleaner/spiffier airplane to impress?
...
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When flying a Civil Air Patrol Plane you can't take up non CAP passangers so you need to rent elswhere.
 
steingar said:
about 50



insurance was $750ish, hangar is $200/month



Last one was north of $4000.
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So it cost you nearly $200/hr to fly.

If you flew 100 hours per year, that would be $120 per hour. About break even with renting and non-owned coverage. Fly more!

I put your numbers into a spreadsheet I had already made up. Used 3k/yr for maintenance because I remember a lot of complaining about the last one so it must have been more than usual :)


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0Ap4YwU_bMyIZdE93Q28xUXdhYklQaVF3V2lncmJYZkE&output=html
 
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Sorry I left some details out. The CAP planes cannot carry non CAP members. I can only use their planes to keep current (C172). The $159/hr one is a 172 as well, fairly good condition. I can go a little further away to KCHK and get a 172 for $130/hr but last time I saw it it wasn't in the the best condition.
 
I guess my question is should I fly a less "pretty", older plane for $130, or just stick with the $159 one that's a little closer and more familier. A side note, I am not checked out with the FBO for the $130 plane, but I am with the $159.
 
Wow glad i don't have to pay near that. 172 around here rents for $105 with garmin 430 or 530, 182 rents for $120 and i think arrow is like $130, they also have two warriors for $104.
 
I pay $80-$90/hr for nice light sports.

I'm going to be in Hartford, CT this summer, and I was told $180/hr for a 172P, but that I should really budget a little over $200/hr to account for taxes and fees. Seriously?
 
jpower said:
I pay $80-$90/hr for nice light sports.

I'm going to be in Hartford, CT this summer, and I was told $180/hr for a 172P, but that I should really budget a little over $200/hr to account for taxes and fees. Seriously?
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The lasts rental I made, 1.1 hours + rental headset + tax, came out to about $200. From what I hear, at least around here, that's about the middle. Another FBO charges $170 while another does $130.
 
RileyMitchum said:
Sorry I left some details out. The CAP planes cannot carry non CAP members. I can only use their planes to keep current (C172). The $159/hr one is a 172 as well, fairly good condition. I can go a little further away to KCHK and get a 172 for $130/hr but last time I saw it it wasn't in the the best condition.
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Unless the $159/hr airplane has G1000 glass and/or air conditioning, that is high. Over are KCHK the prices are more in line with what I have seen nationally.

http://www.chickashawings.com/AircraftRental.html

They have planes there as low as $105 for a two-seater. I would fly the Ercoupe myself :-)
 
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DavidWhite said:
My 172 worked out to about $88/hr

The Mooney with mx is probably around $500/hr

I just don't fly it enough.
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If I got paid to fly something else, I probably wouldn't fly mine 200hrs a year either. :wink2:
 
RileyMitchum said:
The $159/hr one is a 172 as well, fairly good condition.
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I hope that's a wet rate...seems excessive for a dry rate on a "fairly good condition" 172, and presumably an older one. A sweet rental is worth paying more for, but so many of them are damn ratty, and I don't just mean esthetically... always something inop or it's just plain tired from being abused faster than it can be maintained. It's amazing how many problems something like a 172 can have and still be legal for flight.
I know high fuel prices drive the price of everything up, but $159/hr dry for a 172? Wow. It would have to be the nicest 'hawk I've ever seen (but not necessarily the newest). And let me guess... they require 90-day currency in make and model to meet the insurance policy...? A little dual is good for any pilot any time, but it's yet another thing you have to pay for.
I haven't entirely given up on powered flight, but I've pretty much given up on renting. Here in the NYC area, it's pretty brutal, even though there are some good FBOs with good airplanes.
My plan is to eventually buy something cheap and simple, cash in hand, and fly it as often as I can, even if it's just a half hour here and there between longer flights.
But I haven't completely ruled out a club, or even a club-style partnership... that's usually a good compromise- cheaper than renting but with less potential drama than sole ownership.
 
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Thanks for the links alfadog, I was going to do that as soon as I got to a real computer and not my phone. AirOne is where I rent from and I guess I should watch my language. It is used and that is obvious, however it is still seems pretty nice. Though it is my only non-CAP aircraft. The one at AirOne has a Garmin 430, which having never used one before was a joy to play with. The $159 is wet and without tax. Oklahoma Aviation was around $170 when I checked a few months back. The planes are nicer, but I just didn't see a big enough difference to justify the price jump myself. As far as clubs there is one in my area and from what I hear they have quite a wait list. For purchasing I think that is out of the realm for me right now. I am a full time college student (18) working a part time job. So I have neither the money, the money, or the time. (Yeah I said money twice :D )
 
RileyMitchum said:
Thanks for the links alfadog, I was going to do that as soon as I got to a real computer and not my phone. AirOne is where I rent from and I guess I should watch my language. It is used and that is obvious, however it is still seems pretty nice. Though it is my only non-CAP aircraft. The one at AirOne has a Garmin 430, which having never used one before was a joy to play with. The $159 is wet and without tax. Oklahoma Aviation was around $170 when I checked a few months back. The planes are nicer, but I just didn't see a big enough difference to justify the price jump myself. As far as clubs there is one in my area and from what I hear they have quite a wait list. For purchasing I think that is out of the realm for me right now. I am a full time college student (18) working a part time job. So I have neither the money, the money, or the time. (Yeah I said money twice :D )
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$11/hour more buys you AC and G1000 in a new plane over a 430 in 35-year-old airplane? Sounds like a pretty good trade-off to me.

Re clubs, have you checked out this one? Prices are good if you are flying at least 3 - 4 hours/month.

http://www.engineersflyingclub.org/
 
alfadog said:
$11/hour more buys you AC and G1000 in a new plane over a 430 in 35-year-old airplane? Sounds like a pretty good trade-off to me.

Re clubs, have you checked out this one? Prices are good if you are flying at least 3 - 4 hours/month.

http://www.engineersflyingclub.org/
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Didn't realize it had AC :yikes: guess I should read it all thy might be worth it on a summer day. I emailed them about a price list, I'll let y'all know when I get it. The engineers flying club is the only one I know of. I believe they have a wait list but it may be something to take a better look at soon. Maybe get myself on the list.
 
RileyMitchum said:
Didn't realize it had AC :yikes: guess I should read it all thy might be worth it on a summer day. I emailed them about a price list, I'll let y'all know when I get it. The engineers flying club is the only one I know of. I believe they have a wait list but it may be something to take a better look at soon. Maybe get myself on the list.
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I would pay the $11 more just for the G1000 just to get the TAA time. I prefer steam but would not mind having 50 or 100 hours of TAA in my logbook.
 
I don't have G1000 experience so I would need an instructor for some training. But that would be some fun time. G1000, leather, and AC!!!
 
I'm paying $168/hr (+ tax) wet to rent a 2005 C172 (G1000) now.

I grew up in your area. I spent many a weekend morning at the Runway Cafe. Got my PPL at OSU and their rates were always higher than other places in the state. If you're paying $159/hr there, I wonder what OSU's rates are now.

RileyMitchum said:
I don't have G1000 experience so I would need an instructor for some training. But that would be some fun time. G1000, leather, and AC!!!
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For VFR flight and your age, I bet the G1000 transition is very very quick. Just pick up Max Trescott's G1000 book and give it a read first. Otherwise, it's just a 172 and flies the same.

If you're looking for a club, I think there's one at Sundance with a Cherokee 140.
 
My "problem" is that I can rent clean 172M's w/430W for $40/hour dry which works out to about $80/hour wet. I would be willing to pay a premium of $20 - $30/hour for a G1000 just for the logbook time but not 2x what I am currently paying.
 
alfadog said:
I would be willing to pay a premium of $20 - $30/hour for a G1000 just for the logbook time
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What is the value of G1000 time in the logbook? Insurance or something? I've got plenty of G1000 time but never broke it out separately from steam gauge time...
 
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