Remote Airport: where would you get your winds prior to landing?

thebruce

thebruce

Pre-takeoff checklist
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the Bruce
I'm flying into Shoshone, a remote airport outside Las Vegas this weekend and I'm trying to decide where I will get my best surface winds picture prior to overflying to look for any surface indications of wind velocity. The flight from KCRQ will be just under two hours, and we will be in a fairly stable weather pattern, so I will gather data the day prior, but with the closest METARs being more than 40 miles from Shoshone, I'm curious what the more experienced pilots on the board would do.
 
Fly over the field and look for a windsock. If someone in the FBO is monitoring the frequency they may be able to advise which runway the winds are favoring.
 
Closest airport usually works, but you mentioned it's 40 miles away.
Windsocks and/or wind arrows over the field give direction.
Any nearby powerplants will have steam plumes. You get so you can tell not only direction, but a little of wind speed by looking at the steam.
Lakes (okay, near Las Vegas this might be hard) show smooth water along the windward shore and waves moving across the lake. Wave height also works.
Even worse for Vegas, but on the plain states in summer you can actually see the wind flow across the fields - and speed is easy to see.
Dust movement across desert works - but if you can see it, usually the winds are over 20 kts.
 
^^^ He asked prior to overflying.

...Anyway, I'm not very experienced but I'd try the TAF for LAS, I know it's pretty far away but that's what I'm thinking would be your best bet for getting a forecast before you leave. Or just look at the local weather forecast, it might not be presented in an aviation format but at least it's specific to that area.
 
If none of the above work and you have a GPS, you could compare airspeed and GS.

rachelk.tailwinds said:
...Anyway, I'm not very experienced but I'd try the TAF for LAS, I know it's pretty far away but that's what I'm thinking would be your best bet for getting a forecast before you leave. Or just look at the local weather forecast, it might not be presented in an aviation format but at least it's specific to that area.
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Yeah, I'm a fan of the NWS graphical weather forecast for exactly that reason.
 
GeorgeC said:
Yeah, I'm a fan of the NWS graphical weather forecast for exactly that reason.
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That's cool! No more weather.com for me!

I shouldn't have much difficulty getting a read from the windsock overflying 500' above TPA, but I'm so used to towered airports or at least an AWOS/ASOS in SoCal that I would like to have some idea of what to expect when I get there.

Thanks to all!
 
Winds aloft is being forecast.

There is not much need for a forecast on the surface winds. You arrive at the airport, you deal with the wind that's there. If it turns out to be beyond your capabilities, you go somewhere else.

Oh, and there are weather stations that feed into the NWS system that are not located at the airport. They may be at a agricultural research station or other place that records weather and has federal money.
 
Not sure why it matters? Overfly, read the sock, decide which way to land. Winds aloft have nothing to do with which runway you'll land on.
 
You can check the area forecast for any prevailing winds. I also try to get a handful of surrounding TAFs (in this case: NID, DAG, LAS and INS). It's not perfect, but it should give you at least an estimation of what's expected to be happening in all directions around the airport you're going. Then, of course, back up your expectation with the wind sock, smoke, FBO on Unicom, etc before landing.
 
EdFred said:
Lakes.
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Its the middle of the desert...look for the tumbleweed speed!

Lakes out west can be deceptive as they are almost always in valleys and canyons which the wind may be whipping around differently than at the airfield.
 
Shawn said:
Its the middle of the desert...look for the tumbleweed speed!
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I only answered based on the thread title. :D

In the desert, there's dust right? Which way is the dust blowing?
 
EdFred said:
I only answered based on the thread title. :D

In the desert, there's dust right? Which way is the dust blowing?
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That can sometimes be difficult to tell unless the dust is coming from a dry lake patch.
 
EdFred said:
In the desert, there's dust right? Which way is the dust blowing?
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In that terrain, if there's enough wind to produce visible blowing dust, you probably don't want to land there anyway. There are no lakes nearby and just a handful of trees; otherwise it's only scrub brush. The airport is in a low area between ranges of hills, so what's happening a mile away might not be relevant to the wind at the runway.

There is a segmented circle with a windsock in the middle. Beyond that, or the possibility of some smoke from one of the nearby buildings, you can't really assume anything at L61.
 
Low level winds aloft, nearest filed, still for remote and backcountry strips it's all about the sight survey.

When you get there, look for dust, smoke, steam, water, trees, watch your GPS speed, or just your speed out the windows in different directions.
 
Winds aloft are often about 30 degrees diffrent than the surface winds, more or less, depending, YMMV, etc.
 
Trees, tall grass, ponds, etc but in truth your GPS ground speed compared to indicated airspeed should put you in the know before you see any surface indicators.
 
I pull up the nearest METAR if I'm at a distance. Closer in, you can call the airport if they have a UNICOM. I tune in the CTAF (leave it on monitor if I'm getting IFR or getting FF). If there's anybody already in the pattern, you'll have a good idea of what runway to plan for.
 
What's the difference? Unless it's one way in one way out, just plan for the center of the field, no biggie.
 
flyingron said:
I pull up the nearest METAR if I'm at a distance. Closer in, you can call the airport if they have a UNICOM. I tune in the CTAF (leave it on monitor if I'm getting IFR or getting FF). If there's anybody already in the pattern, you'll have a good idea of what runway to plan for.
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Someone has never been to the desert.

Unicom? Be happy they have pavement. "Sweep" the field first to make sure it's adequate pavement and there aren't any big rocks or critters on the runwway. BYO tiedowns. Sight the windsock if there is one (it does have a segmented circle, and SHOULD have a windsock, but sometimes they disintigrate). If there isn't, try a GPS and if that doesn't work, sweep it in both directions and see which one looks slower.

There is not likely to be anyone else at all in sight let alone in the pattern. At least there is a "village" nearby.
 
flyingron said:
I pull up the nearest METAR if I'm at a distance. Closer in, you can call the airport if they have a UNICOM. I tune in the CTAF (leave it on monitor if I'm getting IFR or getting FF). If there's anybody already in the pattern, you'll have a good idea of what runway to plan for.
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If there is one. The airport in question is unattended.
 
And of course nothing guarantees the pattern traffic isn't landing downwind for some boneheaded reason.
If an airport is suitably desolate I'm going to overfly or fly a pretty close downwind anyhow. I want a good picture of the runway in addition to the winds to make sure it's not got some unexpected obstacle on it (like my home field often will have someone mowing it).
 
MAKG1 said:
Someone has never been to the desert.
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That made me laugh out loud. Not much going on at Shoshone. I don't expect much traffic and I'm coming from the south, so I may overfly the length of the runway upwind before descending to pattern altitude and entering the downwind. Given how the surface winds change direction in the desert based on the nearby hill masses, any indicator that isn't within about 3 miles of the runway center isn't all that reliable. I'll have a pretty good idea what runway to use based on the METARs from the distant fields, but if the windsock is shredded I'm going to have to figure out crosswind component by sight. I'm not particularly worried about it, but I'm getting some good info from the discussion.
 
Use the windsock. That's simple.

If you don't have a windsock, beforehand, figure your final TAS based on your IAS for that altitude and temperature and on final look at that and compare it to your GPS groundspeed. If your TAS is (say 70) and GPS speed (say its 60),that is a 10 headwind, but you might have a crosswind. You can tell about how much crosswind by noting your crab.

Another trick, you can tell if you are going to have a headwind on final if you are crabbed toward the runway on base.

Also, at altitude,flying constant airspeed, if you turn the plane to the slowest GPS groundspeed fly same airspeed and note the GPS speed, then turn 180 degrees and note that, the wind is 1/2 the difference.
 
coloradobluesky said:
Use the windsock. That's simple.

If you don't have a windsock, beforehand, figure your final TAS based on your IAS for that altitude and temperature and on final look at that and compare it to your GPS groundspeed. If your TAS is (say 70) and GPS speed (say its 60),that is a 10 headwind, but you might have a crosswind. You can tell about how much crosswind by noting your crab.

Another trick, you can tell if you are going to have a headwind on final if you are crabbed toward the runway on base.

Also, at altitude,flying constant airspeed, if you turn the plane to the slowest GPS groundspeed fly same airspeed and note the GPS speed, then turn 180 degrees and note that, the wind is 1/2 the difference.
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Must fly a lot wider pattern than I do. My downwind/base/final is one continuous turn.
 
Oh, be weary of tetrahedons and 'Landing T' indicators. Found one wired in place as the private owner wanted to encourage people to land a particular direction....
 
EdFred said:
Must fly a lot wider pattern than I do. My downwind/base/final is one continuous turn.
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You fly the overhead?

Those of us who fly high wings really don't like to turn more than 90 deg at a time. You can get a really tight pattern anyway.

In a low wing, your blind spots are much smaller, but they are still there, and are still worse when banked. You won't fly into something, but you might cut it off without seeing it.
 
coloradobluesky said:
Use the windsock. That's simple.

If you don't have a windsock, beforehand, figure your final TAS based on your IAS for that altitude and temperature and on final look at that and compare it to your GPS groundspeed. If your TAS is (say 70) and GPS speed (say its 60),that is a 10 headwind, but you might have a crosswind. You can tell about how much crosswind by noting your crab.

Another trick, you can tell if you are going to have a headwind on final if you are crabbed toward the runway on base.

Also, at altitude,flying constant airspeed, if you turn the plane to the slowest GPS groundspeed fly same airspeed and note the GPS speed, then turn 180 degrees and note that, the wind is 1/2 the difference.
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Wind socks? You must be landing on those new fangled fancy "hard surface" runways ;)
 
I live on a grass strip and we still have a windsock. Doesn't even requires any electricity.
 
Fly over the field check the sock,land accordingly.
 
Fly by and look, if the windsock is usable. In the desert, the winds can change from valley to valley.
What may be at Jean or Sandy VLley (Sky Ranch Estates) may not be at Soshone.
There are trees across the road on the north end, they may help. But the leaves are just coming out now.

The runway is north south, narrow and not level.
I'll bet you get a cross wind, then the direction won't matter.
 
Get the latest winds and forecast for Shoshone before you depart to ensure the winds/crosswinds are not excessive for the narrow runway. Then fly over the segmented circle located on the west side midfield and confirm the winds before landing (the wind sock is in the middle of the circle). Go to Windalert dot com and type in L61 to get current winds, forecast winds and historic winds. The wind info for that site is a local weather station approximately a half mile from the airport.
 
The Weather Channel app on phone or iPad, monitor CTAF, then overfly.

Unfortunately ShoShone doesn't, but some airports without metars will have current winds or even a webcam on their website. Airport near me, KSZP, webcam shows runway, the sky, and the tetrahedron. http://santapaulaairport.com/weather/
 
Some guys fly where there are no people, is no electricy, and land in places where nobody has ever landed an airplane before. Judging an unknown surface can be tricky. Judging the wind at an established strip is simple.
 
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