Rednecks and Racists

I have observed that those who characterize the South as a cesspool of racism and ignorance, typically have little to no actual knowledge or experience from which to form their opinions. Certainly, when I lived in Southern California, I was surprised to see the degree of de facto segregation extant there- but I did not choose to paint it with a broad brush.

In any event, I look more to deeds than words, and I appreciate the warmth and welcome I have found throughout the southern states. Business is good, and getting better and that simply doesn't happen in a hostile atmosphere.
 
A few years ago I was able to successfully convince several Californians that I rode a tractor to school and I lived in the state capitol of NC.
 
A few years ago I was able to successfully convince several Californians that I rode a tractor to school and I lived in the state capitol of NC.
I have 30 ac in the middle of the historic district in our suburb of Birmingham. Every now and then I take the tractor from one side to the other on the road instead of opening several gates. I always get a few strange looks.
 
Lived in Meridian, MS for about a year and a half. Cultural revolution not noted. The people were all very nice, but it was extremely racist (both sides).
 
It's not Atlanta, though I'm sure it's sllooooowly getting better with regards to racism and ethno-centrism.

I actually graduated from U of A in Tuscaloosa in 2003 and so had the opportunity to partake in the cultural experience of being a resident of Alabama for a couple of years. It's a beautiful state, much like the rest of the Southeast, and I made several acquaintances there who are in their hearts of hearts, good people. But the cultural construct is straight up insular and thus it's the last place I'd want to live and raise a family, second to the Mexican border, where I currently reside for work and generally despise.

Alabama's cultural idiosyncracies are very insular and that's what makes it hard for transplants to interact without hostility. The difference between not being white and a southern baptist in Louisiana and Alabama was that in Louisiana nobody cared after finding out, in Alabam you were prodded and acosted, if not straight up proselytized. I would say such was the difference in every place I've been and I've lived in GA, LA, IN, OK and TX. It's only in Alabama where I was the recipient of gems such as: a male telling me "you're a great dude [my name], and I consider you a friend, but the fact remains if you tried to date my sister my parents and myself would have a problem with it" and a female of my interest telling me "yeah no it's crazy; you're white... but you're not white white." This is 2003.

My ex college buddy from Ga Tech (where I went to school before transferring to UA), a sociologist now residing back in hometown Boston MA, has traded back and forth some ideas with me as to the conditions that promote this particular brand of cultural insularism. One thing we agree on, and it's the concept he calls "Have a Good Day Racism". Basically in AL as long as you know your social role, which is drenched in ethno-centrism and religious affiliation, white people will wave at you at the Winn Dixie or Target and all will be well, giving the appearance that such courtesy is proof there is no racism anymore. But, don't you dare introduce variations or deviations from that norm, for if you do you'll be marginalized and made to feel unwelcome. Reference my exchanges above in 2003. This doesn't happen with that level of pointedness in any of the states I've lived in. It is characteristically an Alabama thing.

To be clear, Indiana is full of racists, but they tended to mind their own business; Hoosiers tend to be of bland personality that way. Louisiana (NW LA anyways) is too poor and a de facto East Texas county to be of any cultural consequence, racist as hell but again, didn't have any problems. Texas and Oklahoma were great. Live and let live. Carry yourself with courtesy and keep up your fences in good shape, and these folks don't mind your accent or color. Straight up generalizations for sure, but such has been my cultural experience while moving through these states. I'd rank AL on the bottom, and it's a toss up with Indiana as I don't particularly care for the weather up there.

They are good people, they are humble people, they are fun people. But they are markedly culturally insular and that's something I'm willing for my son to experience as part of his American experience, but no way in God's grace would I raise my son to that or in that cultural construct, which is why I'd never live there. For a graduate of their institution of higher learning, that's gotta say something. To each their own.
 
My visits to the deep south have convinced me that there is indeed an urban cultural renaissance. They have similarly convinced me that outside the big cities things are as they ever were.

I myself would never live in the south. Too damn hot.
 
I'm a jersey boy transplanted to charlotte 5.5 years ago, and there's a huge amount of transplants in the area. so, I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you, but I think the 'cultural revolution' is that the overall population is now diluted, meaning it's not 100% southern anymore.

I think its just "more fun" for hollywood to poke fun at redneckism, and I still chuckle every time I say 'reckon' or 'fixin', which I only say purely to entertain myself. I enjoy the south, but it has been a loooooooooong hard transition for me.
 
The South has always been a convenient whipping boy for northern bigots and racists. The idea of actually knowing what they are talking about doesn't often occur to the northern elites. Why bother to know when babbling like a trained seal i so much more "evolved?"
For people who decry conservatives generalizing about liberals, northern liberals are the most selfish, self centered, and insular people i have ever met, as a group.
 
The South has always been a convenient whipping boy for northern bigots and racists. The idea of actually knowing what they are talking about doesn't often occur to the northern elites. Why bother to know when babbling like a trained seal i so much more "evolved?"
For people who decry conservatives generalizing about liberals, northern liberals are the most selfish, self centered, and insular people i have ever met, as a group.

Yep. :yeahthat:
 
Being that you're in Alabama, shouldn't it be toothdoc instead of teethdoc?

(sorry, I *had* to :D)
 
Lived in Meridian, MS for about a year and a half. Cultural revolution not noted. The people were all very nice, but it was extremely racist (both sides).

What ever posessed the Navy to put jet training there, eh? The Navy of all branches. My sentiments are the same for Columbus AFB on my side of the DOD.
 
Being that you're in Alabama, shouldn't it be toothdoc instead of teethdoc?

(sorry, I *had* to :D)
Zing!!! :rofl:
Seriously, I have learned a lot from my time working and visiting the Deep South... mostly that "people are the same wherever you go." But Southerners are, for the most part, a bit more provincial. But I get it, and I don't fault them for that.
I've had people get right in my face and say "*gasp*- a Yankee!" in only half-kidding tones, and heard some white folks down there use the N-word to the extent that I believe they mean no malice; it's just the word they've always heard and used to describe these folks they've lived and worked alongside all their lives (like how Huck Finn used it, to the chagrin of today's liberal mamby-pamby school boards). They don't think of blacks as inferior or anything, they just use that word (or the more polite "colored" or "Negro"). This is rare nowadays, but you still hear it in that context.

There are bad eggs, for sure, but mostly they are real "good ol' boys"... the kind who appreciate a good redneck joke (and jokes in general).
I've also learned that what we Yankees call "ebonics" is mostly just South-talk. Close your eyes, and you can't tell what race the speaker is, half the time.
They ain't lazy, neither... it's just too damn hawt to be movin' very fast... :D
 
Being that you're in Alabama, shouldn't it be toothdoc instead of teethdoc?

(sorry, I *had* to :D)

My family used the same joke when I moved over from Atlanta about 20 years ago. The way I see it, if you are a mechanic, would you rather work in an area where the old cars break down a lot or an area where everybody drives a new car and it never breaks down? You would be amazed at what people will do to save that one last tooth :D
 
It's not Atlanta, though I'm sure it's sllooooowly getting better with regards to racism and ethno-centrism.

I actually graduated from U of A in Tuscaloosa in 2003 and so had the opportunity to partake in the cultural experience of being a resident of Alabama for a couple of years. It's a beautiful state, much like the rest of the Southeast, and I made several acquaintances there who are in their hearts of hearts, good people. But the cultural construct is straight up insular and thus it's the last place I'd want to live and raise a family, second to the Mexican border, where I currently reside for work and generally despise.

Alabama's cultural idiosyncracies are very insular and that's what makes it hard for transplants to interact without hostility. The difference between not being white and a southern baptist in Louisiana and Alabama was that in Louisiana nobody cared after finding out, in Alabam you were prodded and acosted, if not straight up proselytized. I would say such was the difference in every place I've been and I've lived in GA, LA, IN, OK and TX. It's only in Alabama where I was the recipient of gems such as: a male telling me "you're a great dude [my name], and I consider you a friend, but the fact remains if you tried to date my sister my parents and myself would have a problem with it" and a female of my interest telling me "yeah no it's crazy; you're white... but you're not white white." This is 2003.

My ex college buddy from Ga Tech (where I went to school before transferring to UA), a sociologist now residing back in hometown Boston MA, has traded back and forth some ideas with me as to the conditions that promote this particular brand of cultural insularism. One thing we agree on, and it's the concept he calls "Have a Good Day Racism". Basically in AL as long as you know your social role, which is drenched in ethno-centrism and religious affiliation, white people will wave at you at the Winn Dixie or Target and all will be well, giving the appearance that such courtesy is proof there is no racism anymore. But, don't you dare introduce variations or deviations from that norm, for if you do you'll be marginalized and made to feel unwelcome. Reference my exchanges above in 2003. This doesn't happen with that level of pointedness in any of the states I've lived in. It is characteristically an Alabama thing.

To be clear, Indiana is full of racists, but they tended to mind their own business; Hoosiers tend to be of bland personality that way. Louisiana (NW LA anyways) is too poor and a de facto East Texas county to be of any cultural consequence, racist as hell but again, didn't have any problems. Texas and Oklahoma were great. Live and let live. Carry yourself with courtesy and keep up your fences in good shape, and these folks don't mind your accent or color. Straight up generalizations for sure, but such has been my cultural experience while moving through these states. I'd rank AL on the bottom, and it's a toss up with Indiana as I don't particularly care for the weather up there.

They are good people, they are humble people, they are fun people. But they are markedly culturally insular and that's something I'm willing for my son to experience as part of his American experience, but no way in God's grace would I raise my son to that or in that cultural construct, which is why I'd never live there. For a graduate of their institution of higher learning, that's gotta say something. To each their own.

This is all so patently false, I am not sure where to start to debunk it. I have lived in Alabama my entire life and have never encountered even ONE situation that you describe as common. I am not sure a semi truck could carry a brush as broad as you paint with. If you don't like Alabama, that's OK with me, but don't make stuff up.
 
While we are thinking about regional differences, I have observed that in the Northeast (especially New York, Boston, Philadelphia, places like that), there is a much greater emphasis on and perception of historical national origin. Folks are much more likely to identify themselves as "Italian, Puerto Rican, Irish," etc. back east, then they are in the rest of the country, certainly down here in Texas.

There is significant recognition of Hispanic heritage here, but the place where I sit right now used to be Mexico, so that's not so surprising.
 
My visits to the deep south have convinced me that there is indeed an urban cultural renaissance. They have similarly convinced me that outside the big cities things are as they ever were.

I myself would never live in the south. Too damn hot.

Contrary to what you see on TV, air conditioning is really getting popular diwn here.
 
This is all so patently false, I am not sure where to start to debunk it. I have lived in Alabama my entire life and have never encountered even ONE situation that you describe as common. I am not sure a semi truck could carry a brush as broad as you paint with. If you don't like Alabama, that's OK with me, but don't make stuff up.

Not saying it's the case, but is it possible you don't see it because you've been there your whole life? I know people that have lived somewhere for their first 20-30 years. They move away, and when they visit/move back a few years later see it in a completely different way from when they lived there.
 
What ever posessed the Navy to put jet training there, eh? The Navy of all branches. My sentiments are the same for Columbus AFB on my side of the DOD.
Probably the same reason that the Navy had air stations in Tennessee and up until a few years ago, the USN Supply Corps Officer School was in Athens, GA.
 
A few years ago I was able to successfully convince several Californians that I rode a tractor to school and I lived in the state capitol of NC.
Not that hard....I don't think Californians have ever been accused of being terribly intelligent.
 
Not saying it's the case, but is it possible you don't see it because you've been there your whole life? I know people that have lived somewhere for their first 20-30 years. They move away, and when they visit/move back a few years later see it in a completely different way from when they lived there.

I lived the first 20 years of my life in Alabama. I spent the next 10 years exiled to the frozen tundra of Iowa. Now I've been back in Georgia for almost 4 years.

I would have to say that, in my personal experience, there are more 'racists' in Iowa than in either Alabama or Georgia.

What's interesting is my observed difference in racists in the south vs. midwest -- in the south, the racists I have encountered are generally ignorant hicks that aren't intelligent enough to know any better - you could see them coming a mile away because of their 1982 Chevy Custom Deluxe 20 on 50" mud tires with a confederate flag flying from their 6' cb antenna. In the midwest, the racists tended to be considered 'intelligent' by most standards which means that when they 'acted out' in their racism, it wasn't just calling someone a name, it was much deeper psychological type of activity.
 
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My ex college buddy from Ga Tech (where I went to school before transferring to UA), a sociologist now residing back in hometown Boston MA, has traded back and forth some ideas with me as to the conditions that promote this particular brand of cultural insularism. One thing we agree on, and it's the concept he calls "Have a Good Day Racism". Basically in AL as long as you know your social role, which is drenched in ethno-centrism and religious affiliation, white people will wave at you at the Winn Dixie or Target and all will be well, giving the appearance that such courtesy is proof there is no racism anymore. But, don't you dare introduce variations or deviations from that norm, for if you do you'll be marginalized and made to feel unwelcome. Reference my exchanges above in 2003. This doesn't happen with that level of pointedness in any of the states I've lived in. It is characteristically an Alabama thing.

Don't much care what sociologists residing in Boston think. Proud to be insular.
 
I lived the first 20 years of my life in Alabama. I spent the next 10 years exiled to the frozen tundra of Iowa. Now I've been back in Georgia for almost 4 years.

I would have to say that, in my personal experience, there are more 'racists' in Iowa than in either Alabama or Georgia.

What's interesting is my observed difference in racists in the south vs. midwest -- in the south, the racists I have encountered are generally ignorant hicks that aren't intelligent enough to know any better. In the midwest, the racists tended to be considered 'intelligent' by most standards which means that when they 'acted out' in their racism, it wasn't just calling someone a name, it was much deeper psychological type of activity.

Differences in racism aside, did you see the south from a different perspective after moving away and then back, and in a way you possibly wouldn't have noticed had you never been banished to Cornfield, USA?
 
Differences in racism aside, did you see the south from a different perspective after moving away and then back, and in a way you possibly wouldn't have noticed had you never been banished to Cornfield, USA?

Yes. I would say that I view it differently, but I don't know that I view it in a more 'negative' way. I guess I recognize general differences in lifestyle down here vs. up there, and I think I can honestly say I somewhat understand why each side loves 'their' way.
 
Yes. I would say that I view it differently, but I don't know that I view it in a more 'negative' way. I guess I recognize general differences in lifestyle down here vs. up there, and I think I can honestly say I somewhat understand why each side loves 'their' way.

It doesn't have to be a negatively or positively way, but when someone says "I've lived here my whole life and I've never seen xyz," I'm just saying it's possible (probable?) they dont see it, because they don't have an outside perspective.
 
At various times between 2004 and 2011 I lived in (at least three months in each location) (no guarantee as to spellings)

Albertville, AL

Swainsboro, GA

Albany, GA

Savannah, GA

Waynesboro, GA

Augusta, GA

Jackson, MS

Tomkinsville, GA

Thomaston, GA

Sandersville, GA

Long Beach, MS

Montgomery, AL

Hazlehurst, GA (and also worked in Baxley, Dublin, and Fitzgerald, six months total 'twixt these four towns)

Laurel, MS

Dothan, AL

(and I'm sure some more I'm not remembering right now)

And all I have to say is...

ohhhhh.......my.

"The post Jim Crow South" doesn't exist yet.

Hell, many of these small towns still have two proms. One white...and one black. That one really blew me away.

And as someone else said, it's not just one direction. The southern blacks are just as bad or worse than the southern whites.

There are numerous reasons I wouldn't live in the south and racism is one reason but it's way down the list. Lack of "pride of ownership" and "lack of work ethic" are much closer to the top. On most of the projects I did above, I had to bring in crews from out of state to meet the imposed deadlines. I just couldn't do it with the "local subs".

And, Spike, Texas is NOT the south. No more than Florida is.
 
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It doesn't have to be a negatively or positively way, but when someone says "I've lived here my whole life and I've never seen xyz," I'm just saying it's possible (probable?) they dont see it, because they don't have an outside perspective.

Another problem for "natives" is imported stupidity. You might not notice a general behavior shift in your general area if its newcomers mostly causing it.

Examples might be my new back door neighbors. If you polled them or otherwise measured say, just an example, their "commitment to green energy" right now, and used it as an indicator for our area... It'd be off the charts. They're hippy-dippy 30-something's who just moved for the first time to a rural area, and when I explained that their water comes from a well and the pump requires their house electricity to be on... and that we have power lines blow down out here in winter storms... they babbled for ten minutes about how they're going to put in "solar or wind someday".

Yeah. Fine. Do you have a generator? No? Okay, I'll be expecting you as you trudge through three feet of snow to come borrow one next winter. I have three. If one of those isn't operational, you'll get to fill up water jugs and hike back.

So... That's just an example to illustrate that looking at an area, sometimes there are changes going on the folk who've been there for decades, just don't notice.

I'm sure there are areas where the "non-imported" folk aren't racist and haven't associated with a new crowd that is.

I'll give an example that's regarding racism.

Our Latino population in Denver tends to be very insular. Especially the large number of illegal immigrants. It's the language barrier mostly.

This hasn't changed in my lifetime, and anyplace West of I-25 over near Federal Blvd generally centered on Downtown, has always been a majority Latino community.

What seems to be changing over the years is the overall view of the Latino community, somewhat as slave labor... this was not the case when I was a kid.

And here's what I suspect. It's due to the massive in-rush of Californians to Colorado during my adulthood.

They truly do look down on the Latino community far more than old-school Denverites.

Government isn't helping. Latino gang violence in a few places started to rise dramatically, until DPD started randomly beating everyone. Seriously. DPD has major problems. At least they're Equal Opportunity beatings... They beat on everyone.

They imported some California LE personnel there too, methinks.

Pretty blunt, and I'm sure some Californian will take it poorly, but that's what I've seen here.
 
The South has always been a convenient whipping boy for northern bigots and racists. The idea of actually knowing what they are talking about doesn't often occur to the northern elites. Why bother to know when babbling like a trained seal i so much more "evolved?"
For people who decry conservatives generalizing about liberals, northern liberals are the most selfish, self centered, and insular people i have ever met, as a group.

You may not realize the irony of your stereotype laden rant decrying the fact that people supposedly have stereotypes about the group you are a part of.
 
Another problem for "natives" is imported stupidity. You might not notice a general behavior shift in your general area if its newcomers mostly causing it.

Examples might be my new back door neighbors. If you polled them or otherwise measured say, just an example, their "commitment to green energy" right now, and used it as an indicator for our area... It'd be off the charts. They're hippy-dippy 30-something's who just moved for the first time to a rural area, and when I explained that their water comes from a well and the pump requires their house electricity to be on... and that we have power lines blow down out here in winter storms... they babbled for ten minutes about how they're going to put in "solar or wind someday".

Yeah. Fine. Do you have a generator? No? Okay, I'll be expecting you as you trudge through three feet of snow to come borrow one next winter. I have three. If one of those isn't operational, you'll get to fill up water jugs and hike back.

So... That's just an example to illustrate that looking at an area, sometimes there are changes going on the folk who've been there for decades, just don't notice.

Oh, that's a whole 'nother subject. The people that move out of the city, and then try to bring all the city rules to the country. :mad::mad::mad::mad:
 
You may not realize the irony of your stereotype laden rant decrying the fact that people supposedly have stereotypes about the group you are a part of.
He's a (self proclaimed) Florida Cracker...why would he?
 
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It's not Atlanta, though I'm sure it's sllooooowly getting better with regards to racism and ethno-centrism.

I actually graduated from U of A in Tuscaloosa in 2003 and so had the opportunity to partake in the cultural experience of being a resident of Alabama for a couple of years. It's a beautiful state, much like the rest of the Southeast, and I made several acquaintances there who are in their hearts of hearts, good people. But the cultural construct is straight up insular and thus it's the last place I'd want to live and raise a family, second to the Mexican border, where I currently reside for work and generally despise.

Alabama's cultural idiosyncracies are very insular and that's what makes it hard for transplants to interact without hostility. The difference between not being white and a southern baptist in Louisiana and Alabama was that in Louisiana nobody cared after finding out, in Alabam you were prodded and acosted, if not straight up proselytized. I would say such was the difference in every place I've been and I've lived in GA, LA, IN, OK and TX. It's only in Alabama where I was the recipient of gems such as: a male telling me "you're a great dude [my name], and I consider you a friend, but the fact remains if you tried to date my sister my parents and myself would have a problem with it" and a female of my interest telling me "yeah no it's crazy; you're white... but you're not white white." This is 2003.

My ex college buddy from Ga Tech (where I went to school before transferring to UA), a sociologist now residing back in hometown Boston MA, has traded back and forth some ideas with me as to the conditions that promote this particular brand of cultural insularism. One thing we agree on, and it's the concept he calls "Have a Good Day Racism". Basically in AL as long as you know your social role, which is drenched in ethno-centrism and religious affiliation, white people will wave at you at the Winn Dixie or Target and all will be well, giving the appearance that such courtesy is proof there is no racism anymore. But, don't you dare introduce variations or deviations from that norm, for if you do you'll be marginalized and made to feel unwelcome. Reference my exchanges above in 2003. This doesn't happen with that level of pointedness in any of the states I've lived in. It is characteristically an Alabama thing.

To be clear, Indiana is full of racists, but they tended to mind their own business; Hoosiers tend to be of bland personality that way. Louisiana (NW LA anyways) is too poor and a de facto East Texas county to be of any cultural consequence, racist as hell but again, didn't have any problems. Texas and Oklahoma were great. Live and let live. Carry yourself with courtesy and keep up your fences in good shape, and these folks don't mind your accent or color. Straight up generalizations for sure, but such has been my cultural experience while moving through these states. I'd rank AL on the bottom, and it's a toss up with Indiana as I don't particularly care for the weather up there.

They are good people, they are humble people, they are fun people. But they are markedly culturally insular and that's something I'm willing for my son to experience as part of his American experience, but no way in God's grace would I raise my son to that or in that cultural construct, which is why I'd never live there. For a graduate of their institution of higher learning, that's gotta say something. To each their own.

You must be like me - white but look mehican when exposed to direct sunlight.
 
The South has always been a convenient whipping boy for northern bigots and racists. The idea of actually knowing what they are talking about doesn't often occur to the northern elites. Why bother to know when babbling like a trained seal i so much more "evolved?"
For people who decry conservatives generalizing about liberals, northern liberals are the most selfish, self centered, and insular people i have ever met, as a group.

100% agree

I lived in south Georgia for a few years, by far the most level headed and respectfull place I've lived.

Everyone is very polite, did not have ANYTHING stolen or vandalized, unlike CA and other "progressive" places where I actually budget for yearly theft. Pull that is S Georgia youre likely to be greeted by a 12 gauge, ether by a cop or land owner.

Everyone waves, if you are on the side of the road with your hood up, people WILL stop and help, try that in CA or NY, good luck!

Most of the transplants that moved there had this "I'm better then you country folks" attitude.

As for black and white, yea, the whites and blacks tend to stay in their own homogenous groups, I never witnessed any "hate" their are some cultural differences which may seem "hateful" to someone who isnt from there and doesn't bother to try to understand, people in the south don't give a F' about being PC.
 
The other thing I couldn't stand. You call it air conditioning. I call it refrigeration.

All "winter" we kept the doors and windows opens and enjoyed 75 to 80 degree days and 50's at night. Great weather to work out in and then sleep well at night. In the hot months we run the AC and enjoy the twenty degree difference from outside, to inside.

I put up the Christmas lights in short sleeves and send photos to our loved ones in the north. We pick citrus all thru your cold months and the cool and dreary days are few and far between. By noon, on a cold day, we are in t-shirts and shorts.

Our area gets one or two frosts a winter and it brings the citrus out just right. There was an ice storm in 1987 and it killed a lot of citrus trees. We are changing over to sweet citrus these as and winter is our busiest time of the year due to picking.

I own a coat but haven't had it on since 1999, the last time we spent Christmas up north.
 
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You may not realize the irony of your stereotype laden rant decrying the fact that people supposedly have stereotypes about the group you are a part of.

You may not realize it, but I couldn't give a **** about your politics.
 
I know I'd like to see the word "insular" used a lot more in this thread...so, how about it???
 
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