Recomendations for 1 airplane hgr battery chargers

kontiki

kontiki

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Kontiki
I see a lot out there, anybody find one particularly versatile and reasonable?
 
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I use a 12v "battery tender" it has a lead that goes from the battery to access area.

Just be sure to read up on them, some of those chargers done get along with some batteries.
 
If you have a Concorde sealed battery only use the Concorde approved model BatteryMinder. Most other will eat the battery. I found this out the hard way several years ago.
 
Airplane battery chemistry is different than cars. The specific gravity is higher. Lots of people get away with wal mart chargers...but a lot more cause lots of damage when the cheap car chargers boil there batteries and cause volcanic activity to occur under the cowl.

fWIW

Battery minder sells regulated chargers designed specifically for airplane batteries. Some even have temp sensors that will shut off if the inner temp of the battery gets to high.
 
Sgtmac said:
Airplane battery chemistry is different than cars. The specific gravity is higher. Lots of people get away with wal mart chargers...but a lot more cause lots of damage when the cheap car chargers boil there batteries and cause volcanic activity to occur under the cowl.

fWIW

Battery minder sells regulated chargers designed specifically for airplane batteries. Some even have temp sensors that will shut off if the inner temp of the battery gets to high.
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This. :yes:

Don't screw around with a Harbor Freight battery charger. Get the real deal designed for aircraft batteries. You need one that can desulfate the battery.

http://batteryminders.com/store.php?spawner=icon_home&&app=air
 
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Sgtmac said:
Airplane battery chemistry is different than cars. The specific gravity is higher.
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Do tell please. As far as I know, lead and sulfuric acid is lead and sulfuric acid. The structure of aircraft battery cells is different but I'm fairly sure the chemistry is the same.
 
http://batteryminders.com/battery-charger-reviews
Clark1961 said:
Do tell please. As far as I know, lead and sulfuric acid is lead and sulfuric acid. The structure of aircraft battery cells is different but I'm fairly sure the chemistry is the same.
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Maybe you should read the links I provided? :dunno:


http://batteryminders.com/battery-charger-reviews

http://batteryminders.com/store.php?spawner=icon_home&&app=air


I have several of the Batteryminders and use them on my aircraft. They charged at 2 amps then go into a desulfication and maintenance mode.

Not all lead acid batteries are the same, or should they be treated or maintained the same. :no:
 
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Geico266 said:
Maybe you should read the link I provided?

http://batteryminders.com/store.php?spawner=icon_home&&app=air
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I've read that link. It's still a lead-acid reaction which is the "chemistry" of the battery. As for the claim of higher specific gravity...well, the "chemistry" defines the specific gravity and charge state.

The real difference between aircraft and auto batteries is the structure of the grid and the lighter structure of the aircraft battery is the issue when considering a charger.

Hint: the charging system in the 'kota is straight off of a car.
 
Clark1961 said:
I've read that link. It's still a lead-acid reaction which is the "chemistry" of the battery. As for the claim of higher specific gravity...well, the "chemistry" defines the specific gravity and charge state.

The real difference between aircraft and auto batteries is the structure of the grid and the lighter structure of the aircraft battery is the issue when considering a charger.

Hint: the charging system in the 'kota is straight off of a car.
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So the fact that Concord aircraft battery manufacturer does not recommend any other battery charger means nothing?

The fact that an AGM aircraft battery is not the same as a flooded cell automotive battery means nothing?

Maybe you should call Concord and talk to the tech rep. I have spent literally hours talking with them at OSH. I worked a booth across the isle. ;)
 
Geico266 said:
So the fact that Concord aircraft battery manufacturer does not recommend any other battery charger means nothing?

The fact that an AGM aircraft battery is not the same as a flooded cell automotive battery means nothing?

Maybe you should call Concord and talk to the tech rep. I have spent literally hours talking with them at OSH. I worked a booth across the isle. ;)
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Calm down just a little bit Larry. The link does not specifically address the gel-cells. It does make some weird claim about higher specific gravity but that isn't pertinent for gel-cells.

On to your other points, not all aircraft batteries are AGM and the OP certainly didn't address AGM. As for what the religious beliefs of Concord may be, I really couldn't care less. I think my Concord AGM also doesn't care since it's been on a non-battery minder charger for over a year now.

I know you believe you are correct and that is certainly your prerogative. I learned battery cell chemistry over 30 years ago and I am quite certain that the fundamental chemistry won't change although structure, alloys, and additives will change.
 
Clark1961 said:
Calm down just a little bit Larry. The link does not specifically address the gel-cells. It does make some weird claim about higher specific gravity but that isn't pertinent for gel-cells.

On to your other points, not all aircraft batteries are AGM and the OP certainly didn't address AGM. As for what the religious beliefs of Concord may be, I really couldn't care less. I think my Concord AGM also doesn't care since it's been on a non-battery minder charger for over a year now.

I know you believe you are correct and that is certainly your prerogative. I learned battery cell chemistry over 30 years ago and I am quite certain that the fundamental chemistry won't change although structure, alloys, and additives will change.
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So you are clinging to education you got 30 year ago, without any input from companies making modern aircraft batteries, got it. How many AGM batteries were made back then?

So you will take your 1 year anecdotal evidence and 30 year old knowledge of batteries over the manufacturers recommendations? Just want to be clear on your position.


This is one of those subjects everyone has an opinion on. Do what you want. The OP asked for advice, mine is to listen to the manufacturers recommendations. ;)

The BatteryMinder can actually improve a sulfated battery.
 
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From the research I did, the principal difference between the basic non-aviation Battery Minder and the aviation one is the temperature compensator, and you can get a non-aviation temperature compensated one for ~$40 less per unit (than the same "aviation" model) too. If you have an insulated hangar in a moderate climate, you're probably fine without the temp compensator, so long as you're smart about unplugging it during a heat wave.

Jeff
 
Airplane batteries may be a little more delicate than car batteries, but if you look at the info available on the Concord and Battery Minder sites relating to charge and float voltage, you'll see that the $49 Battery Minder should be as safe to use at temperatures, conservatively, below 60 degrees as the s-5 model aviation charger. I'm betting that there are so many chargers out there with all kinds of charging profiles that the battery companies, for good reason, warn against all of them except for a few specific models that they have checked out.
 
Let me see if I have this right,

I fly around in an OLD 1968 Cessn 177 which still has a VIBRATING type voltage regulator. There is no temperature sensor, no over voltage alarms, no high tech anything. I kid you not I've got 8 years on this battery. It's been run down flat dead at least once three years ago, and nearly dead this year. ITS STILL GOING.

Everytime I start the airplane I watch the ameter peg to 60 amps for about 60 seconds.



So please tell me again how an automotive charger is gonna kill my battery. :rolleyes2:


One thing I attribute to long life is this, the battery is where it belongs, no where near the heat and vibration of the engine.
 
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IMHO Heat, vibration, poor maintenance (dirty allowing more rapid self discharge) will kill the battery long before a "non aviation" charger will.
 
There's nothing special about an AGM nor the Batteryminder. What's different is some battery tenders/chargers like the Batteryminder have a desulfurization mode where they either hold the charge voltage higher than the intended battery voltage and measure current draw or they pulse charge at a higher voltage for a set period of time.

AGMs " like " this because they have far less fluid inside and tend to get somewhat "uneven" chemical reactions internally. The higher voltage and/or pulsing helps them attain a true full charge.

Same effect works aloft, the alternator puts out 13.8 for a long period of time when the battery only needs 12.

Hardest thing you can do to an AGM is a bunch of short flights, with long periods in between them. It won't be fully/evenly charged when you put it away. A traditional battery will handle that abuse better.

You can buy other chargers other than the Batteryminder that are way smarter than even that thing. Cell companies have them on cell sites. They'll even load test cells and let you know when they're starting to fail. You can get as fancy or simple as you like.

There's nothing significantly different between a car starting battery style AGM and an aircraft AGM. A car deep cycle or a boat deep cycle AGM yes. Very different. Aircraft? No.
 
Geico266 said:
So you are clinging to education you got 30 year ago, without any input from companies making modern aircraft batteries, got it. How many AGM batteries were made back then?

So you will take your 1 year anecdotal evidence and 30 year old knowledge of batteries over the manufacturers recommendations? Just want to be clear on your position.


This is one of those subjects everyone has an opinion on. Do what you want. The OP asked for advice, mine is to listen to the manufacturers recommendations. ;)

The BatteryMinder can actually improve a sulfated battery.
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Larry, I pointed out that battery chemistry hasn't changed. It can't change since it is fixed by simple chemical reactions. Lead can't be changed, it's freaking lead. Sulfuric acid can't be changed, it's freaking aqueous H2SO4. Wave your arms about the rest but at least try to understand that the chemistry was fixed by mother nature long before you or I walked the planet. The chemistry will remain long after we are gone.

Or maybe you just should go do a zoom climb and tell everyone how safe it is...
 
Geico266 said:
http://batteryminders.com/battery-charger-reviews

Maybe you should read the links I provided? :dunno:


http://batteryminders.com/battery-charger-reviews

http://batteryminders.com/store.php?spawner=icon_home&&app=air


I have several of the Batteryminders and use them on my aircraft. They charged at 2 amps then go into a desulfication and maintenance mode.

Not all lead acid batteries are the same, or should they be treated or maintained the same. :no:
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If a guy actually flys why would he need a $300 desulfator?

Paragraph G on Page 13 of http://www.concordebattery.com/otherpdf/5-0324-rg-manual.pdf, says I don't.
 
Clark1961 said:
Larry, I pointed out that battery chemistry hasn't changed. It can't change since it is fixed by simple chemicaleactions. Lead can't be changed, it's freaking lead. Sulfuric acid can't be changed, it's freaking aqueous H2SO4. Wave your arms about the rest but at least try to understand that the chemistry was fixed by mother nature long before you or I walked the planet. The chemistry will remain long after we are gone.

Or maybe you just should go do a zoom climb and tell everyone how safe it is...
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No need to get snarky when you are losing the argument.

The chemistry is not that same. The percentage of acid to water is higher in AGM batteries and their charge rate and levels for storage are not the same.

Did you ask a battery manufacturer or are you still going to deny battery technology has not changed in 30 years? :dunno:
 
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denverpilot said:
There's nothing special about an AGM nor the Batteryminder. What's different is some battery tenders/chargers like the Batteryminder have a desulfurization mode where they either hold the charge voltage higher than the intended battery voltage and measure current draw or they pulse charge at a higher voltage for a set period of time.

AGMs " like " this because they have far less fluid inside and tend to get somewhat "uneven" chemical reactions internally. The higher voltage and/or pulsing helps them attain a true full charge.

Same effect works aloft, the alternator puts out 13.8 for a long period of time when the battery only needs 12.

Hardest thing you can do to an AGM is a bunch of short flights, with long periods in between them. It won't be fully/evenly charged when you put it away. A traditional battery will handle that abuse better.

You can buy other chargers other than the Batteryminder that are way smarter than even that thing. Cell companies have them on cell sites. They'll even load test cells and let you know when they're starting to fail. You can get as fancy or simple as you like.

There's nothing significantly different between a car starting battery style AGM and an aircraft AGM. A car deep cycle or a boat deep cycle AGM yes. Very different. Aircraft? No.
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The Concorde RG series is valve regulated, the worst thing you can do to them, besides store them discharged, is place them in the cowl and cook them over & over. The blow off valve releases internal pressure and everytime further drying it out.
 
Geico266 said:
No need to get snarky when you are losing the argument.

The chemistry is not that same. The percentage of acid to water is higher in AGM batteries and their charge rate and levels for storage are not the same.

Did you ask a battery manufacturer or are you still going to deny battery technology has not changed in 30 years? :dunno:
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Isn't as bad as asking a used car dealer but maybe the reps have stock in the products they support.
 
bnt83 said:
If a guy actually flys why would he need a $300 desulfator?

Paragraph G on Page 13 of http://www.concordebattery.com/otherpdf/5-0324-rg-manual.pdf, says I don't.
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That's not the way I read it. :dunno:

Slow discharge is not uncommon (parasitic leaking) when a plane is being stored over winter or not flown often and leads to sulfuracation of the battery over time, this shortens the life. Leaving the master on you'll need to slowly charge the battery with a good battery charger like the Batteryminder.

Concord recommends only Batteryminder because the finish charge is within their specs. before it goes into the maintenance mode.

Do what you want. I maintain my planes to the highest possible standard. If you want to use a Harbor Freight charger meant for cars knock yourself out.
 
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Geico266 said:
No need to get snarky when you are losing the argument.

The chemistry is not that same. The percentage of acid to water is higher in AGM batteries and their charge rate and levels for storage are not the same.

Did you ask a battery manufacturer or are you still going to deny battery technology has not changed in 30 years? :dunno:
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Who exactly got snarky? Sheesh. Explain to the world exactly how lead has changed in the last 30 years. When you're done with that I will admit that I lost the argument.
 
Clark1961 said:
Who exactly got snarky? Sheesh. Explain to the world exactly how lead has changed in the last 30 years. When you're done with that I will admit that I lost the argument.
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The point is the acid to water ratio has changed, that is the "chemistry" of the new light weigth, but more powerful aircraft batteries. The ouritynof te lead used is not the same as in yesteryear either, it is much more pure. The "chemistry" certainly is NOT the same as they were 30 years ago. :no:

You would never admit you are wrong, you would rather hang onto and keep reciting 30 year old facts.

Have you called Concord yet? Odyssey? Optima? Seriously, call them. Never be afraid to learn something new. ;)
 
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Odyssey batteries have their own recommended chargers. Take a look at the charge rate over the 3 step process they recommend.

http://www.odysseybattery.com/chargers.html


The "chemistry" of these new light weight batteries have changed dramically. They require different maintenance that the old standard batteries your grandfather used.
 
Geico266 said:
The point was the acid to water ratio has changed, that is the "chemistry" of the new aircraft batteries. The "chemistry" certainly is NOT the same as they were 30 years ago. :no:

You would never admit you are wrong, you would rather keep reciting 30 year old facts.

Have you called Concord yet? Seriously, call them. Never be afraid to learn something new. ;)
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Are you claiming that all aircraft batteries are AGM? Hint: They aren't. The flooded cell batteries are exactly the same as they have been for well over 30 years.

Now, is there a different chemistry available now? No, there is not. The reaction is still sulfuric acid and lead. The sulfuric acid has a new form, a gell, available but the underlying chemistry is still the same. Can you even begin to understand the nature of an electrolytic cell? It is a little advanced over high school chemistry but not by much. Every college intro chem course for technical track folks should cover it. I'm sure you can "learn something new" and read about it yourself.

Come back when you're done listening to sales folks and are willing to study things for yourself.
 
Geico266 said:
I maintain my planes to the highest possible standard.
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Do you adjust the charging voltages for the seasons then?

Cold winter months your VR should push as high as 14.4 volts but about 13.5 durring the summer.
 
Clark1961 said:
Are you claiming that all aircraft batteries are AGM? Hint: They aren't. The flooded cell batteries are exactly the same as they have been for well over 30 years.

Now, is there a different chemistry available now? No, there is not. The reaction is still sulfuric acid and lead. The sulfuric acid has a new form, a gell, available but the underlying chemistry is still the same. Can you even begin to understand the nature of an electrolytic cell? It is a little advanced over high school chemistry but not by much. Every college intro chem course for technical track folks should cover it. I'm sure you can "learn something new" and read about it yourself.

Come back when you're done listening to sales folks and are willing to study things for yourself.
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Now you qualify your position as defining the "underlaying chemistry" , rather than admit the chemistry ( purity of the lead, acid to water ratio, materials used) used in the manufacturing of the batteries has changed.

I've never owned a plane ( over 2 dozen) that took a regular flooded battery. Even my ultralights used an Odyssey battery that you could mount upside down, or on its side if needed. Try that with your 30 year old battery. ;)

I will get my knowledge of aircraft components from the people who build them. :yes:
 
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Geico266 said:
Odyssey batteries have their own recommended chargers. Take a look at the charge rate over the 3 step process they recommend.

http://www.odysseybattery.com/chargers.html


The "chemistry" of these new light weight batteries have changed dramically. They require different maintenance that the old standard batteries your grandfather used.
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And yet they let the aircraft charging system remain the same stupid alternator and voltage regulator it always was.

If they're that different, they're selling you a battery that shouldn't be hooked to a typical aircraft charging system. Ever think of that?

I wouldn't put it past any of them really. It was too easy to keep a standard lead acid running for years and years if you knew how to measure their specific gravity and weren't afraid of adding water or acid as needed.

Can't do that on a "semi-sealed" battery. So they get to sell you more batteries over time.

Other than cold cranking amps, there's almost no reason to use an AGM in an aircraft.
 
denverpilot said:
And yet they let the aircraft charging system remain the same stupid alternator and voltage regulator it always was.

If they're that different, they're selling you a battery that shouldn't be hooked to a typical aircraft charging system. Ever think of that?

I wouldn't put it past any of them really. It was too easy to keep a standard lead acid running for years and years if you knew how to measure their specific gravity and weren't afraid of adding water or acid as needed.

Can't do that on a "semi-sealed" battery. So they get to sell you more batteries over time.

Other than cold cranking amps, there's almost no reason to use an AGM in an aircraft.
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They dont even change anything when they switch from NiCads to Valve Regulated Lead Acids on jets, except the temp sensor installation usually changes. The charging systems is the same.
 
denverpilot said:
And yet they let the aircraft charging system remain the same stupid alternator and voltage regulator it always was.

If they're that different, they're selling you a battery that shouldn't be hooked to a typical aircraft charging system. Ever think of that?

I wouldn't put it past any of them really. It was too easy to keep a standard lead acid running for years and years if you knew how to measure their specific gravity and weren't afraid of adding water or acid as needed.

Can't do that on a "semi-sealed" battery. So they get to sell you more batteries over time.

Other than cold cranking amps, there's almost no reason to use an AGM in an aircraft.
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Weight is not an important issue in an airplane? :dunno: ;)

The new AGM or "gas mat" batteries are MUCH lighter. Due to the new CHEMISTRY. :lol:

Seriously, guys, it's your plane. If you want to use old flooded wet cell batteries knock yourselves out. Just leave your smart phone and iPad at home. Technology, and CHEMISTRY have made nice advances in batteries too. ;)
 
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Geico266 said:
( purity of the lead, acid to water ratio, materials used) used in the manufacturing of the batteries has changed.
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The quality has, increasing service life. That's pretty much it
 
Geico266 said:
The new AGM or "gas mat" batteries are MUCH lighter. Due to the new CHEMISTRY. :lol:
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I just checked yesterday and found the Gill 35 (regular aircraft flooded lead acid) was 5 pounds lighter than a Concorde RG35 VRLA which uses AGM.
 
bnt83 said:
The quality has, increasing service life. That's pretty much it
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What is the weight of the old batteries -v- a new equivalent AGM?

What happens to aluminum when acid vapors attack it or the acid spills on it?

What about aerobatics when the plane pulls negative g's or flies inverted?
 
See #38

Concorde CB35 (regular aircraft flooded lead acid) is still 3.5 pounds lighter than the Concorde RG35.
 
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