Rebuilt aircraft

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by Jim K, Sep 6, 2020.

  1. Jim K

    Jim K Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

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    Sort of a semi-followup to my thread about retracts...

    What spurred that question was a pretty good looking lance that's about an hour away. It suffered a nose gear collapse and prop strike last summer: https://www.trade-a-plane.com/searc...odel=LANCE&listing_id=2385773&s-type=aircraft
    A tail number search yields damage photos in what seems to have been an insurance auction. There's a short note about repairs in the ad, but no mention of an engine inspection and new prop.

    I finally decided to call & ask, but thought to search the seller first. Two Google results:
    -A letter from a FSDO explaining he couldn't make a new data plate to restore a f33 bonanza flooded in hurricane sandy which he purchased as scrap. A search for that tail number shows it now registered as an 'experimental' F33.
    -a lawsuit from the 90's where he lied and fabricated logbooks to sell a salvaged republic seabee

    I think im gonna pass on this one. I thought a damaged & repaired aircraft, especially one like this with minimal damage, would be no big deal, but if these are the kind of characters that rebuild them...
     
  2. NealRomeoGolf

    NealRomeoGolf En-Route

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    The engine only has 122 hours on it so sounds like they replaced it. But prop time is over 1000. Either it was repaired or they slapped on a used one.
     
  3. Jim K

    Jim K Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

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    The engine was listed at 122 hrs in the salvage auction. The damaged prop was a 3 blade, so it was definitely changed for a (presumably) yellow tagged unit. Really nothing makes sense... there shouldn't have been enough damage to write it off. Unless it was massively underinsured.
     
  4. wheaties

    wheaties Pre-takeoff checklist

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    You'd be surprised how quickly they write things off. If they think it's cheaper for them to cut you a check and sell the remainder for scrap, that's what they'll do. It all comes down to money. No one says they have to pay for a repair, remember.
     
  5. NordicDave

    NordicDave Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    It will sell. The paint looks pretty.
     
  6. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

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    Engine IRAN, replace the prop, repair the airframe damage...that can cost quite a bit. If done properly.
    And there's lots of owners that don't carry in-motion hull insurance, given how expensive it has become.
    There's always another airplane that will come along for sale.
    And lots of airplanes repaired properly with ample subsequent hours flown to confirm the quality of the repair.

    Ain't that the truth...
     
  7. Racerx

    Racerx Line Up and Wait

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    To answer the question on repair. It wouldn't scare me away, but it would give you a place to start with for the prebuy.

    There's risks with every airplane purchase. Ones with no damage history aren't immune to those issues. Planes with fresh overhauls doesn't mean much other than when the previous owner put 50k into it. My dad's six has 800 since major. This past annual all oil came back clean. And everything looked good. Then they pulled the suction screen and found a thumbnail size chunk of aluminum. Came from the accessory case from a boss for a magneto gear. It had fresh break on the outside but towards the inside you could faintly see what looked like staining.(welder by trade, can kind of dissect metal failures. Have welded my fair share of aluminium cases) Best we could come up with is when the engine was overhauled by the previous owner the mechanic didn't quite get everything lined up and just slightly cracked the boss. Just took another 15 years for it to finally break off the rest of the way. Performed an IRAN. Sent the case to get repaired. Case came back to get reinstalled. No dice. Repair station goofed and sent it back before it was finished machined and wouldn't fit. Plane has been in annual since June.

    Repairs wouldn't scare me. Slimey used car salesman I try not to do business with however. I don't think that particular Lance was certified for the 7th seat anyway. Was also looking at a plane from Palwaukee as it's about 15min from me. Google the seller is something I'll definitely be doing in the future.

    Also, that overhaul isnt worth the paper it's written on because of this...

    http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2019/07/piper-pa-32r-300-cherokee-lance-n635bd_21.html?m=1

    Overhaul in 2015. Prop strike in 2019. Could be fine, but Lycoming recommends an overhaul. So that's why it was up for auction. The very low time engine needs an overhaul. Last I checked the overhaul runs 50k. Throw in a new prop and and labor and the insurance company is looking at 75k
     
  8. Racerx

    Racerx Line Up and Wait

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    5295.07 ttaf when the prop strike occured.

    5296 ttaf listed on on the sale ad. So it hasn't been flown since last July when the prop strike occured. The strike was relatively light but, but we're not talking hitting a bird. For the price he's asking it's not what you want. It doesn't have the avionics you're looking for and it doesn't have the 7th seat.
     
  9. Bell206

    Bell206 En-Route

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    FWIW: And in some/most cases where the work performed is documented and above board it would not be a big deal. There used to be a good business in repairing certain models, but an ongoing group of individuals who preferred not to follow the rules screwed it up for the rest. The Bonanza idiot above is one. It's my understanding that the Bonanza issue and a few other high profile incidents finally pushed the FAA to issue a national policy order on determining how to classify damaged aircraft. And the insurance companies/owners are starting to follow suit by pulling data tags and/or declaring the aircraft "destroyed" or "salvage" in the logbooks. It's unfortunate that it is going this way as there are number of aircraft that could be repaired and make for a nice aircraft.
     
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  10. Kenny Phillips

    Kenny Phillips En-Route

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    The same started happening in the automotive world a couple of decades ago, and now it's pretty universal: written-off motor vehicles have the title stripped, and new title issued as "salvage". That word will keep most buyers away, as would "experimental" on a Bonanza. Besides, which category of experimental could be had? I think only Experimental Exhibition, which has severe limitations.
     
  11. Racerx

    Racerx Line Up and Wait

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    It flew last month from Arkansas to Oklahoma. But yeah I'm not sure what category it would fall under. In the FAA letter the FAA said either get a tag from the manufacturer or register as experimental. I looked into that after the late Art Mattson had his planes go up for sale. They were both out of registration and the more famous 140 was in the experimental category. Because of all the mods it was essentially useless and couldn't fly it until it's returned to certified status. The FSDO said their was something like 280 pages of registration changes from experimental exhibition to experimental air racing.
     
  12. Ravioli

    Ravioli Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Flip them $80k and fly happy.

    Assuming it was truly a factory engine, as the ad says 122 SFRM, you've got half you money right there and the "prop strike" doesn't matter. Even if the prop strike was in the first 122 hours you're probably still miles (hours?) ahead with a factory reman engine than anything else you'll find.
     
  13. hindsight2020

    hindsight2020 Final Approach

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    This is the Lance being discussed in the Piper forum recently. Bunch of people have looked at it. Here's the kicker people are missing on this thread about that airplane. Quoting Mr O'Brien, who seems to dabble in the repo/salvage game and appears to have experience with these dynamics (he's on here but I forget his handle). From that thread:

    Basically they didn't do a teardown on that engine because for part 91, Lycoming's prop strike AD doesn't require it. *yikes* So you're buying into a prop-struck counter-weighted engine without NDI on the internals. Caveat Emptor my friend. Considering it's a claimable inspection, there doesn't seem to be a reason that engine couldn't have been cracked open, unless again it was so underinsured that there was no way the thing didn't get totaled by incurring the claim, which is essentially what seems to have happened here. When it comes to transparency and disclosure, human beings are truly the worst.
     
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  14. Jim K

    Jim K Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

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    Excellent information.. thanks! It appears my gut instinct was correct. That engine is probably fine. Or it's a time bomb.
     
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  15. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Someone will buy it....and it will be fine ;)
     
  16. Ravioli

    Ravioli Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Just like every engine. ;)
     
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  17. Bell206

    Bell206 En-Route

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    FYI: a quick check at the registry and it appears someone else owns the Bonanza now in OK with an Exp-Exhibition ticket. Must have got a deal on it.
    https://registry.faa.gov/AircraftInquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?nNumberTxt=3115a
     
  18. Jim K

    Jim K Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

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  19. Bell206

    Bell206 En-Route

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    Ha. My guess is the current owners got themselves a dirt cheap flying test bed for something. The guy before couldn't even get it registered let alone an AWC. But as for a salt-water bath, with the proper clean up it usually doesn't cause any chronic issues unless it was completely sunk. At the old day job we had 26 helicopters flooded with 4 feet of the GOM and years later only a couple specific models corroded more than usual. The F33 above was 1st picked up by a CRS that did heavy S/M repair from the insurance company then sold it to the last owner. If I recall it wasn't in that bad of shape except for the missing data plate.