Reasonable C182 rental rates?

woodchucker

woodchucker

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woodchucker
The club I'm in changed their pricing (kinda jacking things up significantly), so I am wondering if I'm still getting an okay deal, or if I should rethink things.

They want an up-front fee of $500 good for a year for access to the planes, and then $78/hour dry for the 182. For comparison, they want $68/hour dry for the 160 HP 172s.

I looked up a local FBO 182 rental, and they want $178 wet. Still much more expensive hourly than my club.

What do you think? Specifically, it is a 1976 182P.
 
How much are you going to fly? What does the other 182 offer ths club one doesn't..if anything?

That will skew the value significantly...figure $50.00-65.00 per hour in fuel at 12 gph...

You know the real arithmetic...where do you stand?
 
$78 dry isn't bad. Especially if they rent to low time folks who are probably ramping up the wear and tear.
 
Regarding fuel, I did figure $65 hourly, which is much cheaper still than the rental I compared with. I don't have to pay insurance or maintenance or anything else with the club price. (there is a $1000 deductible but I could cover that if needed)

I'm mostly kinda ****** that they jacked the rates so much. I had been flying the 172, and it worked out to around $48 dry. Now they want $68.

I flew 50 hours since last September, when I first signed on with the club.
 
Are there any other monthly fees? $500 annually works out to about $42 a month. At 4 hours a month, that works out to about $155/hr. Not cheap, but not out of line.
 
Local rate is about $200/hr wet for a C-182RG.
If your dry rate is $80 and fuel is $70 that's $150/hr
That leaves a balance of $50/hr to pay that $500 annual fee.
Fly more than 10 hrs per year and you are saving $$.

Now how hard was that to figure out. Granted my numbers were for an RG model.
Your numbers may vary.
Just depends how easy it is to schedule.
 
The FBO here rents their 182 described as IFR, DUAL VOR, GPS for $145/hr I have never seen it so can't say what kind of shape it is in.
 
We have a 1999 182S on line at $199/hr. King 89B IFR GPS. It's on a Part 135 certificate, so you have some assurance of the maintenance being performed. (Though they maintain all their planes well.)
 
gprellwitz said:
We have a 1999 182S on line at $199/hr. King 89B IFR GPS. It's on a Part 135 certificate, so you have some assurance of the maintenance being performed. (Though they maintain all their planes well.)
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200hr and it doent even have a 430?

Even if she's on NASA certificate that's steep for a 182
 
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Our club has monthly dues (I've been paying $75/month) to cover fixed expenses like hangars and insurance. The 182 goes for $124/hour wet. Our Arrow is $122/hour. The 172s are $87/hour for the C-172P (160 hp) and $97/hour for the C-172N (180 hp + GNS430W). 15 years ago that C-172N was $50/hour and it didn't have the 430. Gas has gone up significantly in the past 15 years.
 
woodchucker said:
Regarding fuel, I did figure $65 hourly, which is much cheaper still than the rental I compared with. I don't have to pay insurance or maintenance or anything else with the club price. (there is a $1000 deductible but I could cover that if needed)

I'm mostly kinda ****** that they jacked the rates so much. I had been flying the 172, and it worked out to around $48 dry. Now they want $68.

I flew 50 hours since last September, when I first signed on with the club.
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That has the signs of an engine overhaul or other maintenance event that happened prematurely and the club had to eat a $15,000 matzo ball. Since you know what direction that little ball of excrement travels, voila, increased rates for all. :)

The 182 pricing seems pretty darn fair to me. The $500/yr fixed nut seems strangely cheap, but it makes sense in a lot of different membership scenarios I can think of. My perspective is LA Metro though, so take it with a grain of salt.

:dunno:
 
My club's 182 is around 150 an hr wet. It's a very nice 182.
 
In my club we pay $70/month to cover the insurance and hanger. The wet cost is $90/hr for a Cherokee 235 (12-14 gph). That makes the dry rate somewhere around $20-$30. We have an A&P in the club who does our most of our maintenance free of charge though.
 
Shucks... I've never even seen a 182 for rent.
 
schmookeeg said:
That has the signs of an engine overhaul or other maintenance event that happened prematurely and the club had to eat a $15,000 matzo ball. Since you know what direction that little ball of excrement travels, voila, increased rates for all. :)

The 182 pricing seems pretty darn fair to me. The $500/yr fixed nut seems strangely cheap, but it makes sense in a lot of different membership scenarios I can think of. My perspective is LA Metro though, so take it with a grain of salt.

:dunno:
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Something to consider. Last year a teen pilot decided to showboat with his younger brother on board, taking one of the club 172s down into the Virgin River Gorge. He lost control and ended up as a crumpled mess.

The club lost it's insurer over that accident, and on negotiating a new insurance plan had to absorb higher premiums. I have a feeling this may be part of that whole issue.

I flew over that area last week on the way to Vegas, and even 2-4K feet above the terrain there was some turbulence. I couldn't imagine taking a 172 down into that snake pit.
 
Yeah, a $20/hour change in the dry rate smells of either low maintenance reserves that the board is getting worried about or a big bump in fixed costs such as the insurance issue you mentioned. Understandable that it grabbed your attention.

Regardless though, do the math and comparison shop. The total price still seems fairly reasonable especially if your membership costs just $500/year. Mine had a $350 buy-in and then costs $95/month. The 172 that I fly the most costs $105 wet.
 
SkyDog58 said:
Yeah, a $20/hour change in the dry rate smells of either low maintenance reserves that the board is getting worried about or a big bump in fixed costs such as the insurance issue you mentioned. Understandable that it grabbed your attention.
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Depends how the club is set up. Some clubs desire to planes in the black quicker from unplanned mx. It easy for a $6,000 maintenance cost to pop up that would require a $20/hr adjustment if the club intends to recover within a year on a plane that flies 300/hr year.
 
gprellwitz said:
Chicago suburbs, within the 30nm ring for KORD. Things are more expensive here.
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Naw, that's just A&M. Absurdly expensive ($250 for the 182 if you're not a "dues paying member") and look at you funny if you want to rent a plane for more than 2 hours.

I'm within 5 miles of A&M and somehow we're able to fly our 2007 C172 G1000 for $97 wet and our 1998 182S for $116 wet.
 
woodchucker said:
The club I'm in changed their pricing (kinda jacking things up significantly), so I am wondering if I'm still getting an okay deal, or if I should rethink things.

They want an up-front fee of $500 good for a year for access to the planes, and then $78/hour dry for the 182. For comparison, they want $68/hour dry for the 160 HP 172s.

I looked up a local FBO 182 rental, and they want $178 wet. Still much more expensive hourly than my club.

What do you think? Specifically, it is a 1976 182P.
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In our club (www.metroflyersclub.com), our 1975 182P is $110/hr wet on Tach time.

From that, remove the fuel per hour (13g planned, $4.25/g) and I'm happy with our arrangement. But we're set up to keep it very affordable.
 
Turningfinal said:
Naw, that's just A&M. Absurdly expensive ($250 for the 182 if you're not a "dues paying member") and look at you funny if you want to rent a plane for more than 2 hours.

I'm within 5 miles of A&M and somehow we're able to fly our 2007 C172 G1000 for $97 wet and our 1998 182S for $116 wet.
Click to expand...

I am not surprised to hear this. I called them two weeks ago to ask them about renting their 182S because I wanted to fly to Nashville for the weekend of Independence day and they basically told me they don't let anyone who's not a member of the club fly their airplanes. Then they told me they are only looking for long term customers, not people who only rent occasionally. That attitude in my opinion is what kills general aviation, to act wary of pilots who actually want to use their pilot license for practical reasons and not just burning dollars around the pattern. Anyway when I realized they charged $250 I thought to myself, screw this.

The 182 for $116 wet, are you getting that at Lewis University airport?
 
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AggieMike88 said:
In our club (www.metroflyersclub.com), our 1975 182P is $110/hr wet on Tach time.

From that, remove the fuel per hour (13g planned, $4.25/g) and I'm happy with our arrangement. But we're set up to keep it very affordable.
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But you are paying $300 monthly? I just found that on your link. Great deal if you get a lot of hours, but not so great if you average 4-6 per month maybe.

I found another club here, $35 monthly and $45 dry for a 182. BUT, the buy-in is $2800.
 
$300 monthly dues is for BOTH aircraft. The 182 and the Bo. And the ability to keep membership small and schedule availability high.

Covers Hangar, Insurance (liability and hull), Databases, routine maintenance, annual inspections, and more. Hangar rent alone is $300 per aircraft. I feel I am getting quite a good value for the price.

When I'm actively flying, 12-18 hrs/month isn't unknown.
 
That seems a pretty fair rate to me, especially if the plane is well equipped and maintained.

they basically told me they don't let anyone who's not a member of the club fly their airplanes. Then they told me they are only looking for long term customers, not people who only rent occasionally. That attitude in my opinion is what kills general aviation,
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I respectfully disagree. In the case of any airplane that is used by a group of people, it is SO easy for one careless pilot to ruin the airplane for all the other pilots.

An occasional renter has really nothing invested in the long term health of the airplane, probably isn't very current in that airplane, and has every incentive to ride it hard and put it up wet.

I think the future of GA is for airplanes to be shared among groups of pilots who have a vested interest in keep the airplanes they fly in good shape.

Beaten up crap rental dogs are a huge factor in discouraging new entrants into GA.
 
JimNtexas said:
That seems a pretty fair rate to me, especially if the plane is well equipped and maintained.



I respectfully disagree. In the case of any airplane that is used by a group of people, it is SO easy for one careless pilot to ruin the airplane for all the other pilots.

An occasional renter has really nothing invested in the long term health of the airplane, probably isn't very current in that airplane, and has every incentive to ride it hard and put it up wet.

I think the future of GA is for airplanes to be shared among groups of pilots who have a vested interest in keep the airplanes they fly in good shape.

Beaten up crap rental dogs are a huge factor in discouraging new entrants into GA.
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That's what the checkouts are for. I'm respectful towards any airplane I fly and I respect the operating procedures of whatever club I'm renting from. But for a club to outright turn away potential customers, who in my case are current in that type, I don't see this as contributing to the growth of GA.

From my experience what turns away new entrants into GA is purely based on aesthetics. They wouldn't know otherwise how to determine if a plane is airworthy/safe or not. So they look at the paint and the interior. GA is already expensive enough as it is, if it also becomes inconvenient people will rather spend the time in their car.

The passion of flying is not what will keep GA alive. If it's not also regarded as practical means of transportation, less people will want to invest the money into learning how to fly and GA will become progressively more expensive for the rest of us.

Part ownership and private clubs are one thing and it's great if you have one close to where you live (in my case I don't), but then don't advertise yourself as willing to rent your aircraft.
 
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AggieMike88 said:
$300 monthly dues is for BOTH aircraft. The 182 and the Bo. And the ability to keep membership small and schedule availability high.

Covers Hangar, Insurance (liability and hull), Databases, routine maintenance, annual inspections, and more. Hangar rent alone is $300 per aircraft. I feel I am getting quite a good value for the price.

When I'm actively flying, 12-18 hrs/month isn't unknown.
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Wasn't criticizing at all. Right now I'm averaging around 4 hours per month, but if I had something closer to your pricing scheme that would encourage me to get up much more!
 
Rental rates are all over the place depending on where you are. Only meaningful comparisons are with others in your area. 182's are rare in rental fleet. Mostly its single engine trainers and a twin. With a retractable constant speed prop for those ratings. They don't like to rent 182's. People rent them, go far away, then cant get back due to weather and they leave them so they can get back to work and the rental company has to retrieve them and then there is a dispute over paying for all of that.
 
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Brad Z said:
Depends how the club is set up. Some clubs desire to planes in the black quicker from unplanned mx. It easy for a $6,000 maintenance cost to pop up that would require a $20/hr adjustment if the club intends to recover within a year on a plane that flies 300/hr year.
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Yes and a $6,000 mx bill would tend to greatly reduce if not deplete existing mx reserves, thus my observation still holds.
 
Turningfinal said:
Naw, that's just A&M. Absurdly expensive ($250 for the 182 if you're not a "dues paying member") and look at you funny if you want to rent a plane for more than 2 hours.

I'm within 5 miles of A&M and somehow we're able to fly our 2007 C172 G1000 for $97 wet and our 1998 182S for $116 wet.
Click to expand...

Are you at Naper Aero Businessmen's Flying Club?
 
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