Re-Registering Name on Aircraft Registration

davidm767

davidm767

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Davidm767
I need to re-register my Grumman this year. My problem was that I moved to California from Florida and had since dissolved my LLC (FL) which the aircraft was registered under. Is the registration process a simple name change? Or do I have to worry about putting my personal name under the re-registration?

I want to avoid the whole double taxation issue. I already paid taxes when I bought the aircraft several years ago.

Cheers
 
davidm767 said:
I need to re-register my Grumman this year. My problem was that I moved to California from Florida and had since dissolved my LLC (FL) which the aircraft was registered under. Is the registration process a simple name change? Or do I have to worry about putting my personal name under the re-registration?

I want to avoid the whole double taxation issue. I already paid taxes when I bought the aircraft several years ago.

Cheers
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send in the registration form with the new info, and proof of the title transfer to your name, that will require some form of you being the LLC.

but you will pay Ca. tax anyway.

I'd simply send in a address change. wait until Ca sends you a bill.
 
I am far from being a legal expert on LLCs and other such legal entities so take these questions with a grain of salt.

Did the LLC transfer ownership to you before the LLC was dissolved? Does that make a legal difference?

Does indicating that you and the LLC are the same equate to a piercing of the corporate veil or does that matter with a LLC or just C Corps?
 
Call the FSDO, the Registration name issue they are sticklers for having everything just so, even your title (owner, CEO, whatever), or they send it back. Get instructions from them directly.
 
Henning said:
Call the FSDO, the Registration name issue they are sticklers for having everything just so, even your title (owner, CEO, whatever), or they send it back. Get instructions from them directly.
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:yes: The titles are important. You have to either call or email a FSDO or the registration branch anyway since you must use the official printed form and there's no other way to get it.

Also, for CA check with one of them aviation tax lawyer types. There's some rules for avoiding/lowering tax liability if the plane is used for interstate commerce x% of the first year.

People "who have done it" say they've flown to Nevada, Arizona, and Utah a few times for "meetings" or to "view/bid-on income property" and that sufficed. Not sure if they are FOS or not.
 
If you're talking about renewal of the registration, be advised that the only thing you may change on the renewal application is your addresses. You can't at the same time change the ownership even if it's purely a typographical or name change issue (the FAA aircraft registry is one of the most difficult people in the FAA to deal with, I went around in circles many times to just get my wife's name changed when she married me). There is nothing "simple" when it comes to the FAA aircraft registry.

You shouldn't have "dissolved" an LLC if it owned an asset. I'd avoid mentioning that fact the the FAA. If you do, you'll find that you have LARGE problems as you don't have a way to legally convey the property either to yourself or to another LLC.

Hopefully, when you registered the aircraft with the FAA the first time, you disclosed yourself as a member (perhaps the sole member) of the LLC which would allow them to believe you have the rights to convey the property.

You'll need someone familiar with the California tax laws to see what type of conveyance may avoid tax issues there.
 
Henning said:
Call the FSDO, the Registration name issue they are sticklers for having everything just so, even your title (owner, CEO, whatever), or they send it back. Get instructions from them directly.
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rolivi said:
:yes: The titles are important. You have to either call or email a FSDO or the registration branch anyway since you must use the official printed form and there's no other way to get it.

.
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If you call the FSDO they will simply refer you to Aircraft Registry in Oklahoma City.
 
R&W.. I think the confusing part is that you CAN get the form by walking in to the FSDO, but the answers come for elsewhere as you indicate. So maybe the Mr. Ed technique does make more sense for complicated transfers.

I THOUGHT mine was easy... only took a couple extra phone calls, letters, and one 120 day extension, but it got done without grounding so I guess that's good enough.
 
Rotor must get his jollies by being on hold.
 
Can you re-create the LLC?
 
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Anthony said:
Can yoy re-create the LLC?
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Even if he could, if the aircraft is based in CA, he would end up paying the base LLC fee rate of $800/yr, even if a "foreign" (non-CA) LLC.

I suggest the OP consult a tax attorney on this, it could be messy. If the LLC paid FL sales/use tax on the plane, and the transfer was done before he left FL, he may (should, I think) only be liable for any difference between the FL sales/use tax rate and the CA sales/use tax rate, but he'll need the payment evidence to back that up.

Jeff
 
Jeff Oslick said:
Even if he could, if the aircraft is based in CA, he would end up paying the base LLC fee rate of $800/yr, even if a "foreign" (non-CA) LLC.

I suggest the OP consult a tax attorney on this, it could be messy. If the LLC paid FL sales/use tax on the plane, and the transfer was done before he left FL, he may (should, I think) only be liable for any difference between the FL sales/use tax rate and the CA sales/use tax rate, but he'll need the payment evidence to back that up.

Jeff
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The tax part is separate from the registration issue with the LLC. Since the LLC owned the plane, and the LLC no longer exists, technically now, unless there was some mechanism in the dissolution transferring title to him, technically, nobody owns the plane with rights to transfer registration.
 
Henning said:
The tax part is separate from the registration issue with the LLC. Since the LLC owned the plane, and the LLC no longer exists, technically now, unless there was some mechanism in the dissolution transferring title to him, technically, nobody owns the plane with rights to transfer registration.
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Normally, the LLC documents would specify the rights of ownership of assets following dissolution, and there are likely default legal assumptions that would be made in the absence of a clear agreement.
 
davidm767 said:
I need to re-register my Grumman this year. My problem was that I moved to California from Florida and had since dissolved my LLC (FL) which the aircraft was registered under. Is the registration process a simple name change? Or do I have to worry about putting my personal name under the re-registration?

I want to avoid the whole double taxation issue. I already paid taxes when I bought the aircraft several years ago.

Cheers
Click to expand...

Why did you not just leave it in the FL LLC? I would pay the fee to reinstate the FL LLC and get a private mail service for an address in FL.

St Brendan Isle is a company that does this for corps, RV'ers and people that travel all the time.

I am guessing you are going to be told this is a sale, from the FL LLC to whatever name you now use, can we say sales tax in CA?
 
strangebird said:
Why did you not just leave it in the FL LLC? I would pay the fee to reinstate the FL LLC and get a private mail service for an address in FL.

St Brendan Isle is a company that does this for corps, RV'ers and people that travel all the time.

I am guessing you are going to be told this is a sale, from the FL LLC to whatever name you now use, can we say sales tax in CA?
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Too late.
 
Some states (Georgia) allow you to transfer ownership from a SINGLE member LLC to the owner without additional sales tax. I could transfer my 182 to my name with no tax owed because I paid sales tax when I purchased it. I have my doubts that California is similar. :rolleyes:
 
I've heard of folks registering aircraft in states without sales or useage tax and blocking their tail numbers too.
 
James331 said:
I've heard of folks registering aircraft in states without sales or useage tax and blocking their tail numbers too.
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My Travelair was registered at a buddy's address in Oregon for that reason.
 
Jeff Oslick said:
Normally, the LLC documents would specify the rights of ownership of assets following dissolution, and there are likely default legal assumptions that would be made in the absence of a clear agreement.
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The problem is reflecting that transfer in a way that is acceptable to the pinheads at the aircraft registry.
 
Thank you all for you input! I talked to the Registry folks in Oak City, and they stated that the only way to do this is a bill of sale transfer to me the Member. They stressed some key points, but stated they simply did NOT need a dollar amount. MY only trick is IF necessary prove to California that this was NOT a bonafide sale but rather a transfer of dissolved assets, crossing my fingers that it will be a smoother process than what I'm preparing myself for.
 
davidm767 said:
Thank you all for you input! I talked to the Registry folks in Oak City, and they stated that the only way to do this is a bill of sale transfer to me the Member. They stressed some key points, but stated they simply did NOT need a dollar amount. MY only trick is IF necessary prove to California that this was NOT a bonafide sale but rather a transfer of dissolved assets, crossing my fingers that it will be a smoother process than what I'm preparing myself for.
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California will come after you no question. Don't take legal advice from the hacks in OKC. Contact a tax attorney in CA.
 
Anthony said:
California will come after you no question. Don't take legal advice from the hacks in OKC. Contact a tax attorney in CA.
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From the way I read that, those "hacks" in OKC only advised him on how to transfer the registration, they didn't offer tax advice. :rolleyes:
 
RotorAndWing said:
From the way I read that, those "hacks" in OKC only advised him on how to transfer the registration, they didn't offer tax advice. :rolleyes:
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Yeah, well when I was forced to do that stupid re-registration a few years back, they kept hanging up on me when I would call to check the status as they took over 60 days to process it, so I had an unairworthy plane. In addition, one of the women I talked to gave me an anti Republican/anti Bush rant about needing more people, and I was polite as heck.

Government hacks.
 
I found it amazing that when we got married in 1998, we went to the FAA hangar at Oshkosh and showed our marriage certificate to the rep from the Airman Registry and my wife got her name changed on her certificate on the spot. We showed a copy to the Aircraft Registry and they took it after checking the computer and as time went on nothing happened. Many calls took place to try to update things. I called and they wanted a copy of the marriage certificate (again). I offered to fax/email it. Nope, had to have a paper one (though they were OK with a non-embossed photocopy), then they wanted a registration form filled out, so I did. Nope, wrong kind of regisration form. Yada yada yada. Other than trying to talk to John Lynch (thankfully retired), the Aircraft Registry is THE most ornery part of the FAA I've ever had to deal with. Aeromedical was a pushover compared to these beancounters.
 
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