Raptor Deposit?

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by Adam Weiss, Dec 10, 2017.

  1. labbadabba

    labbadabba Pattern Altitude

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    Raptor deposit.

    Is that like eagle poop?
     
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  2. Stingray Don

    Stingray Don En-Route

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    I think there was a raptor deposit on my windshield this afternoon.
     
  3. donjohnston

    donjohnston Line Up and Wait

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    Who's the former Velocity employee?

    Please tell me it's not Kerlo.
     
  4. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Oh I don't remember his name but I've heard his name on both on the Raptor page and from Scott Swing.
     
  5. N747JB

    N747JB Final Approach

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    I’m driving that one, but in a crew cab! Sweet ride!
     
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  6. tspear

    tspear Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    yes, it is Jeff Kerlo.

    Tim
     
  7. deonb

    deonb Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    People who don’t want to spend more than $7500 for a car? Golf carts aren’t street legal.
     
  8. donjohnston

    donjohnston Line Up and Wait

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    Maybe where you live. :D
     
  9. Vitaly

    Vitaly Filing Flight Plan

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    You lost 30% of your money as soon as you put the deposit , plane and track two different animals :)
     
  10. N747JB

    N747JB Final Approach

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    The one I drive is a demo, but I agree on the airplanes, the trucks hold value pretty well! :D
     
  11. Stallhorn

    Stallhorn Filing Flight Plan

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    I put a deposit on the Raptor abut 6 months ago and I am #99x. I believe they have closer to 1500 people that put deposit on it. The deposit is held in escrow, so unless you commit to buying it, you will get your money back minus $65 escrow fee. I am willing to do that for a guy that has an open source design and wants it available to the masses. Sorta like my favorite OS.

    I went to the open house not too long ago, the prototype is coming together nicely. I don't think a lot of people expect the price to be $120k/$130k or for it to go 300 kts. The 300kts have been recalculated and it is now closer to 260, but still plenty fast. These numbers are calculations with all the design features working optimally, but real life is not that way.

    So go put your deposit in and help out a dreamer (your inner self and Peter)! You will lose $65.00 to the escrow if you change your mind. They estimate I will get it in 5 years, but I am not holding my breath on that. If I get it in 10, I will be happy.

    Shawn
     
  12. Adam Weiss

    Adam Weiss Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Shawn, thanks for your reply. When I posted this, I was hoping to get a reply from someone who actually put a deposit.

    I agree with all of your assertions. If you’re realistic, it won’t be 300kts, and it won’t be $130k, but it could still be really awesome and < $200k. Since there’s no risk in losing your deposit, I just might join you on the list!
     
  13. JD318

    JD318 Pre-Flight

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    I also placed a deposit. Approximately 1 year ago. I'm in the #7XX. As Shawn mentioned, deposit is in escrow. If I change my mind, I get it back less a small fee. I was not able to attend the open house, but I do keep up with the progress via his twice weekly youtube updates. Fun to watch if nothing else. Not sure if I'll ever actually do it, but if I'm only out $65, it will have been good entertainment for a while.
     
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  14. Wargen

    Wargen Filing Flight Plan

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    Hi.

    I have a rather early deposit #30X for the Raptor but I would like to transfer or sell my queue in line to highest bidder. Does anyone have any advice where one could go about selling ones reservation somewhere, is there a market for these things? I would guess it would be of some value seeing how there are currently close to 1,500 reservations.
    Thanks.
     
  15. SkyDog58

    SkyDog58 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Well, I did see someone trying to sell their Icon A5 line number on TAP or Controller. Not sure how much luck they had. And that was after actual deliveries had started.
     
  16. luvflyin

    luvflyin Final Approach

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    So how does that work? For them. If the deposit money goes into escrow and it is all held available for refund to the depositors, then what good is it to them? They can’t use any of the money for their development costs. If they can continue to develop the plane without that money then that means they have their own money to do it. Answer is coming to me as I type. It keeps people from just changing their mind and commits them to buying one if it gets built. Does the money earn interest while in Escrow? Who is the Escrow holder?
     
  17. Tantalum

    Tantalum En-Route

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    Nice to see these guys still putting updates out every couple of days. $130K and 230 knots in a pressurization on 7 gph are aggressive targets. I wonder how close they'll actually get if this ever gets airborne
     
  18. ktup-flyer

    ktup-flyer En-Route

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    Still too slow. Maybe the 7.0L will be better
     
  19. Eric Gleason

    Eric Gleason Pre-takeoff checklist

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    They can also use that to raise capital from investors. "We have $X in deposits" can be a strong motivating argument for venture capitalists. It shows that there is a customer base waiting for the product, who believe in it enough to dedicate some money to the project.
     
  20. wayne

    wayne Cleared for Takeoff

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    I wonder if they'll ever get one airborne. o_O


    I'd buy at twice the price and fuel burn, but I don't think $260k and 14 gph would be enough for 230 knots and pressurized.
     
  21. luvflyin

    luvflyin Final Approach

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    Ah
     
  22. LoLPilot

    LoLPilot Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Ever heard of a car company called Elio?
     
  23. tspear

    tspear Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    I was actually looking for an update on them recently. I liked the idea, kind of a pity they never got anywhere.
    Even the news on their website section is two years old.

    Tim
     
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  24. N747JB

    N747JB Final Approach

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    Have you driven one? They’ll do I’ll I’d every want in a truck, besides tow a big trailer.
     
  25. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Is there a breakdown on how much of that 130K goes towards each of:
    -airframe
    -engine
    -interior
    -paint
    -avionics?
    I'm feeling math-challenged with this.
     
  26. tspear

    tspear Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    Well I had quotes for a Garmin 3X system with dual Nav/Com for a Velocity for 65K.
    The engine mentioned, from Audi I say quoted as roughly 15K stock.
    A budget number I had for Catto prop is around $20K.
    So, that leaves: 30K for airframe, interior, paint, and engine modifications. That is plenty right?

    Oh, the 65K budget number was from the largest two Garmin experimental resellers (per their ads).

    Tim
     
  27. RudyP

    RudyP Line Up and Wait

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    -airframe $200K
    -engine $70K
    -interior $25K
    -paint $15K
    -avionics? $50K
    -other crap we forgot about (de-icing, pressurization, HVAC, etc...) $100K
    - Magic -330K
     
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  28. LoLPilot

    LoLPilot Pre-takeoff checklist

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    They folded after taking a bunch of deposits.
     
  29. ktup-flyer

    ktup-flyer En-Route

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    Yep, my uncle just got an 18. It’s not slow, but I still wish it had more. A tune would probably help a good bit.
     
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  30. Crashnburn

    Crashnburn Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I have the site bookmarked, but I'm not ponying up anything until and unless there are 5 built and flying. And, I agree, $130K is a dream.
     
  31. Adam Weiss

    Adam Weiss Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Latest video shows 360hp at 17.3gph of diesel.
    Interesting.
    Not sure how long it could run at that peak, but if you pull it back to 300hp, that’s still quite a bit.
    The age-old rule of gph = hp/20 still seems to hold true.

    While ambitious, the specs they publish aren’t as outlandish as in previous posts. Here’s a link.
    http://www.raptor-aircraft.com/specs.html

    They spec 230kts at 25,000ft and 11gph.
    They also say 300hp, so I’d bet the burn is closer to 14. Still not bad.

    If you put 300hp in a Velocity, 230kts doesn’t sound too unreasonable. So, for a “similar” design, I’m interested to see how they do.

    As far as costs, I have no idea if these are current, reasonable, or achievable, but here’s how they break it down on the Raptor website(scroll to bottom of page):

    http://www.raptor-aircraft.com/ordering.html

    All that being said, they have a LONG way to go before being able to mass produce anything.
    I wish them luck, but watching the videos just makes me realize how far they still have to go.
     
  32. Paulie

    Paulie Line Up and Wait

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    Good luck but I wonder if that deposit you’ll never see again is tax deductible as lost money.
    There’s been more than one of these too good to be true airplanes.
     
  33. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Well, it’s taken 5 years and a prototype isn’t flying yet, I wouldn’t hold your breath. She’s being “baked” so there should be a flight any day now. ;) Of course, the prototype has to be tested first. I know it won’t be equipped with the de-ice that they advertise and I believe it won’t have a BRS. Two important items that most customers are going to want and two items that will have to be tested prior to being released in kit form. So yeah, it’s gonna be awhile.

    Really they’ve got a great idea and if they had the manpower, more space and tooling, I could see this “taking off.” But, I see a small shop with a few workers that will never be able to handle 1,000 + orders. At least not within the next 30 years. I’m not waiting that long for a plane even if if it meets all their price & performance goals.
     
  34. Datadriver

    Datadriver Line Up and Wait

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    You mean MT, not Catto right?
     
  35. tspear

    tspear Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    Yup.
     
  36. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    ??
    its in escrow ie held by a third party.
    Most of us believe escrow to be pretty safe, I guess it does depend on the escrow instructions.

    Normally a startup av company will spend all the deposit money trying to get it underway - so this money would be no benefit to Raptor, right? They must have other resources.

    I wish the company well.
     
  37. Paulie

    Paulie Line Up and Wait

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    I worked at eclipse jet, they had plenty of deposits also. They were much better funded too.
     
  38. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    And Adam Aircraft Blvd still exists.
     
  39. Wendell Mullins

    Wendell Mullins Filing Flight Plan

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    I have a rather early deposit #30X for the Raptor but I would like to transfer or sell my queue in line to highest bidder. Does anyone have any advice where one could go about selling ones reservation somewhere, is there a market for these things? I would guess it would be of some value seeing how there are currently close to 1,500 reservations.
    Thanks.

    Wargen,
    I am interested in taking over your deposit. Can you contact me to discuss this? I had to register here and am new to the site. Could you email me directly at wjomullins(atsymbol)yahoo(dot)com?
     
  40. Martin Heaton

    Martin Heaton Filing Flight Plan

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    I am also interested in purchasing your deposit. marty.h(at)aol.com