Raptor Aircraft

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by Unit74, Nov 6, 2015.

  1. nauga

    nauga Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    Hmm...wonder what a static source error large enough to cause a -1000 ft altitude error might mean in terms of calibrated airspeed at 110 KIAS. ;)

    Indeed.

    Nauga,
    who follows the source
     
  2. aftCG

    aftCG Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Oh yeah, that could kill him for sure.
     
  3. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

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    He posted a video! He flew off the 40 hours!!

    His hanger doesn't have a paved driveway so he's using his friend's

     
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  4. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

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    Not gonna lie, it's flying not bad
     
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  5. Racerx

    Racerx Line Up and Wait

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    Jumped off the Cirrus bandwagon and back onto Raptor?
     
  6. 231TC

    231TC Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Word on the street (comments section) is he's been busting his operating limitations because his DAR told him all he had to do was make a logbook entry at 40 hours and then he was free to go fly it wherever he wants. Sounds like bad advice from the DAR or a misunderstanding of what was said. Hopefully PM is talking to a good aviation attorney before taking off for Idaho.
     
  7. Kenny Phillips

    Kenny Phillips En-Route

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    Actually, I've known several people who did just that: flew forty, loaded up the plane with family, went places. Is there more required?
     
  8. OkieAviator

    OkieAviator Pattern Altitude

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    As long as he’s made the proper log entries per his op limits he’s good.
     
  9. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

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    That's when you know things have gone real bad for me. It flew relatively stable, even hands off. There were several things in the video that were just too easy though so I didn't bother with it. He mentioned having to fly with the heat on to keep the engine oil under 240 so he cut a whole in the plane for extra vent for himself since it gets very hot in the cabin now. His parachute cover blew off one flight so he taped a random plastic panel onto it.. he still has the deathgrip on the sidestick on takeoff

    But, it did apparently make it to 40 hours (so what, about 30 on the current engine) and it's flying relatively stable
     
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  10. iamtheari

    iamtheari Administrator Management Council Member

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    It's been discussed in this thread. See posts #3134 and #3141 (both on page 79) for example.

    Short version: The paperwork for an Experimental-Research and Development certificate is not the same as for an Experimental-Amateur Built certificate. E-AB typically requires a Phase I flight test of a minimum of 40 hours of solo, day VFR, within a specified radius of a specified place. Raptor's E-R&D certificate does not work that way. I don't know if anyone has seen the actual certificate and limitations for N352TD, so we are speculating a bit. But more informed people seem to agree that it certainly does not allow him to fly anywhere he wants after simply logging 40 hours.
     
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  11. UngaWunga

    UngaWunga Pattern Altitude

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    Some very large control inputs on landing...
     
  12. A Martin

    A Martin Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I noticed around 39:40 he said he will have future announcements and press releases along the lines of ......

    .... "some super exiting stuff we are working on " ... "cant really say anything about it just yet" ...

    .
     
  13. A Martin

    A Martin Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I had that same impression.

    If I was a newbie and not aware of some of PM's (maybe unrealistic) goals .... but was wanting a very roomy aircraft with great forward visibility , that could economically burn JetA and was a sharp modern looking machine , It would certainly catch my interest.

    .
     
  14. A Martin

    A Martin Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I have a question ..... I cannot wrap my mind around the fact that he is using that awkward-looking single hand control unit for his aileron and elevator control.

    I have watched the build videos and did not see any hydraulic assist ..... only saw the typical aircraft cable-pulley system ..... my question is .... are the control forces so light and easy that one hand on that small control is enough ??
     
  15. donjohnston

    donjohnston Cleared for Takeoff

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    Marc Zeitlin paid $10 for the documents on the plane which included the OL's. He said it's a typical E/R&D with no Phase I. So no leaving the test area without a new OL.
     
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  16. donjohnston

    donjohnston Cleared for Takeoff

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    I obviously can't speak to the raptor, but the Velocity has either a center stick which uses torque tubes and flex cables (same type as used on boat steering) or side sticks using torque tubes and push/pull links. No problem at all with one hand on a relatively small throw stick. I can't imagine that adding a cable-pulley system in would make it significantly harder.
     
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  17. DaleB

    DaleB Final Approach

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    Not to mention, I think my LSA could just about keep up with him in cruise flight…. But not on final. Yeesh. I have to wonder, though, how he calculated his approach speed when he doesn't know what VS0 is.
    Sure, right up until you explored the actual specs, I imagine. I haven't watched all of the videos, but from what I gather it seems to top out at about 130 knots or so, and can't make it to a reasonable altitude with a solo pilot and baggage.

    I think it's an interesting prototype that a skilled design engineer could use as a starting point. Fix all of the things that have Band-Aids and kludges on the prototype, and do them right to reduce the weight and the build cost. Ditch what is quite obviously a grossly inadequate engine and swap in something with appropriate power for the airframe and intended use. Or... maybe not. Maybe a skilled designer with experience could shave half a ton off the empty weight and get some of the drag devices off the thing. I mean, seriously. Aileron spades?

    If I were trying to do what Peter is doing, there's a short list of people from the Experimental community that I'd reach out to for assistance and advice. There are guys out there with the engineering knowledge and experience to do amazing things with drag and structural strength. I've seen one or two go into great detail about fixing cooling problems and reducing drag at the same time... amazing stuff to someone like me who lacks a deep education in physics, fluid dynamics, and that kind of thing. "That looks about right" will only get you so far. After that you really do need to lean on people who know what the hell they're talking about.
     
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  18. Katamarino

    Katamarino Pattern Altitude

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    Any time I hear someone say that I feel I can safely say they're full of crap. Put up, or shut up.
     
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  19. SoonerAviator

    SoonerAviator Final Approach

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    Amazing that you'd need large control inputs while coming across the threshold at 100kts, lol.
     
  20. donjohnston

    donjohnston Cleared for Takeoff

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    Here's the thing. We already know that his static port location is bad. He picks up at least 100' on the ground roll during takeoff. That will also equate to a higher indicated airspeed than actual. How much faster is he indicating? I don't know. But it's possible that he's only going 90kts over the threshold. I guess that also means his cruise speed could be slower than he thinks. Since he's never done any testing for that, we'll never know. But he's "okay with that".

    As for large control inputs on final, either excess slop in the control system, poorly designed ailerons or poorly designed wing. Some early Velocity's had these kinds of problems, VG's were a common fix until they came up with a new wing design.

    Here's my landing (skip to 19:30 for the landing). I'm about 5kts faster than normal in this one.

     
  21. SoonerAviator

    SoonerAviator Final Approach

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    Yup, over the threshold at 80kts and touchdown at 75kts. Even if you were a bit fast I'd not think anything of it. If he is really coming in at 100kts, that's insane due to the fact that he doesn't actually know what speed he should be flying on final/touchdown since he doesn't know any of his v-speeds (nor does he have an accurate ASI) as well as the fact that there's a bunch of unnecessary wear & tear on landing gear and associated components. Add to that the additional energy he is bringing along in the event of a mishap and it could be the difference in survival.
     
  22. geezer

    geezer Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Nice flight, donjohnston! I particularly enjoyed the real engine noise throughout, so that I was aware of all adjustments to power. Both you and your plane fly quite smoothly.
     
  23. Racerx

    Racerx Line Up and Wait

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    So did he get a new OL or did he once again say "it's an experimental aircraft, I can do what I want!"...as referenced by him flying a west cross country at 3500'- 4,000'
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2021
  24. donjohnston

    donjohnston Cleared for Takeoff

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    It seems unlikely that he got a new OL since his response to Marc asking how he was able to leave the test area was that the DAR verbally told him that after he flew off 40 hours that he just needed to make a logbook entry and then he could fly wherever he wanted. If that's true, his DAR either doesn't know how a E/R&D airworthiness cert works or he didn't know it was an R&D and not an AB experimental aircraft. Either way, Peter is the one on the wrong side of it if the FAA decides to make an issue of it.

    And Peter deleted those comments from his last video.
     
  25. nauga

    nauga Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    I trust Marc.

    Nauga,
    who has a finely tuned BS detector
     
  26. iamtheari

    iamtheari Administrator Management Council Member

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    I trust nobody. And I hate both mysteries and unsolvable debates. I'll order a copy.
     
  27. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

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    Cool vid, thanks for sharing!

    Didn't the wasabi guys(?) or at some point somewhere we learned that his control rigging did indeed have a lot of "slack" in it. I think his original vision was pushrods
     
  28. nauga

    nauga Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    What took you so long? ;)

    Nauga,
    and the information airway
     
  29. donjohnston

    donjohnston Cleared for Takeoff

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    I can't say for sure. But at one of the pivot points it was causing the skin to flex so he added some (more) steel angle iron to correct that.
     
  30. Lindberg

    Lindberg En-Route

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    Once you have it, what will you do with the information?
     
  31. iamtheari

    iamtheari Administrator Management Council Member

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    We are nearly 5,000 posts into this thread. If everyone put in a penny per post, we could have bought this one plus 4 others by now. My generosity can be repaid in beer with payments due every time anyone sees me.


    Wikileaks.
     
  32. nauga

    nauga Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    Who says someone hasn't already, or doesn't have access to someone else's copy? Ah, that 'trust no one' thingie. Yoyo.

    Nauga,
    who can lead a horse to water
     
  33. iamtheari

    iamtheari Administrator Management Council Member

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    I’ve seen posts summarizing the limitations. I haven’t found the actual PDF online.

    -Thirsty Horse
     
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  34. nauga

    nauga Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    The summaries tend to contradict each other, as in the examples I quoted a few posts back. Spend *your* money or find someone who already has.

    Who said anything about online?

    Nauga,
    a model of discretion
     
  35. iamtheari

    iamtheari Administrator Management Council Member

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    There is still content on his website claiming pushrods. The cables have had a few different issues, including flex where pulleys are mounted to the airframe. That was all well-documented in the videos.
     
  36. Z06_Mir

    Z06_Mir Pattern Altitude

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    He is in for a very rude awakening. Crossing the Rockies is nothing like the "mountains" in Tennessee. And I say "mountains" because not long ago I was flying out east and someone told me to be careful of the terrain. What terrain?! I don't know much about Peter's background but I hope for his sake that he has flown in the real mountains enough to understand the consequences of taking an underperforming or less than prepared airplane through them.

    I was in Idaho, Wyoming and Utah last week and some of my stops the DA was as high as 10,000 feet. Unreal.
     
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  37. Rgbeard

    Rgbeard Pattern Altitude

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    I’ll just put this right here.

    70E6EDFB-FB7A-460D-8475-A9B224948B05.jpeg
     
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  38. MrAnderson

    MrAnderson Pre-Flight

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    Wonder if he’s going to make Oshkosh?
     
  39. kyleb

    kyleb Final Approach

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    Peter's wondering the same thing.
     
  40. donjohnston

    donjohnston Cleared for Takeoff

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    There's a HUGE difference between a 40 hour phase I on an E/AB that have dozens if not hundreds of flying aircraft as opposed to a one-off E/R&D built by someone who doesn't have the vaguest idea of how to build or maintain a plane that's held together with duct tape and angle iron. Not to mention that the people flying the phase I on E/AB's are actually testing to see what the stall speed is.
     
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