Rant: 3rd class medical - 8+ weeks

jbrinker

jbrinker

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Jbrinker
Ugh. I didn't post this in medical topics, because I feel its a more general issue affecting all PPL to one extent or another.

I'm just frustrated and need to vent. I've spent thousand$ getting all my ducks in a row over the past 6 months, have worked with Dr. Bruce (great guy), flown to Peoria, and to Chicago for the proper evaluations. Dr. Bruce is very confident I will be issued, but it's just taking SO LONG it's driving me nuts. I call roughly weekly, and it's always the same story. "I see your application is in here, its with the reviewer". It's been 8 weeks since it was overnight-ed in to them, and 7 since it was fully scanned into their system.

So I called again yesterday. This time she says "I see your application, its in line to go to the reviewer". Ugh, what does that mean? I'm not in the pile, I'm still in the line! Probably 2 or more weeks to go is my guess. I'm ready to solo, I would have last week probably if I had the medical. Yes, I have a lot of other flying to do to, and I'm proceeding on course with that, but it just gets so discouraging.

A couple weeks ago it was beautiful flying weather here for about 10 days, and during that time I was grounded because my instructor was waiting for HIS medical! It took them over 10 weeks from the time of submission.

The whole 3rd class medical - I think it's 90% silly (as empirically proven by Sport Pilot, which disproportionately attracts those WITH disqualifying conditions, and the accident rate is no worse). But even tossing that aside and saying "well, we still need to screen for these potentially dangerous conditions" OK - fine, but can we get the FAA to hold up their end of the bargain? A couple weeks to review, OK, maybe even a month. But this is just ridiculous.

Sorry for the rant :). Feel free to grab a pitchfork and join in :mad:
 
I couldn't agree more. I'm no doctor but I see no reason for it to be so difficult to get a 3rd class medical.
 
lancie00 said:
I couldn't agree more. I'm no doctor but I see no reason for it to be so difficult to get a 3rd class medical.
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If all is well, you'll be in and out of doctor's office in 30 minutes with a fresh new 3rd class medical. It can be tough if you have a disqualifying condition that are you are trying to get a waiver for.
 
No hard numbers, or evidence, but I suspect the III Class exists to keep enough doctors as AMEs, to support a baseline number, so there are plenty to do the other medicals. . .and to keep a little empire intact at FAA.

Like being charged $15 for an asprirn in the hospital - you're kicking in to cover other costs, non-payers, etc.

The III Class is pointless, basically just a revenue generator, and a document stream to occupy (and justify) some slots at FAA.
 
Honestly, I can't understand how it's even that. I was charged $99 for my third class medical. I can't see how any doctor is making any money with a charge that low. The visit was a half hour and there was piles of paperwork.
 
It is a low cost visit, and the office can plug you in to any unfilled slot. But point taken, I don't think doctors are raking it in doing III Class exams.

Judging by the blizzard of reminder cards I get, there must be some profit in it?
 
8 weeks is a long time to wait for sure and, especially if all your paper work was correct and everything, is way longer than I'd expect it to take. Being ready to solo too makes it that much worse I'm sure. I just got a class 2 and was in and out, medical in hand, in 20 minutes (I was also able to fly-in so that was cool) so I've never heard or experienced it taking so long. Even getting my plastic cert after the checkride didn't take 8 weeks. Hang in there OP, hope the rant helped ;)
 
Have you called the number 3 times on non-consecutive days as a polite and patient "interested airman"? (note, Friday and Monday count as consecutive)

This can aid in getting your file a little closer to the top of the line.

I hear your frustration. But keep in mind that the review staff has shrunk considerably (fewer people) while the quantity submissions has grown.

And take heart, in 2010, timeline for initial SI submissions requiring OKC approval was 12-16 weeks.
 
Thanks for letting me rant everyone. Strangely it feels better ;). Dr. Bruce emailed me and indicated he would try to call. How on earth he has time to do everything he does is beyond me. I doubt it will matter to the faceless bureaucracy but I can hope. And if not, well, at least I hopefully only have a few weeks left. Trying to target checkride for fall, flying 2 times a week. That might not be enough, but I can put in more time once I'm sure I actually have a medical.

@AggieMike88 No- I did not realize it had gotten that long! Wow. Maybe I do need to sit back and relax. Yes, I have called probably a total of 8 times or more. I never call more than every 4 or 5 days, so each call should count. (I think nearly everyone is onto this little trick now, so I bet most of the applicants are 'interested' - so we all wait anyway)

I actually asked the last couple of calls "can you give me a rough timeline? I.e. number of weeks?" And they would not. Really, that would help a lot. Just like watching a UPS package go across the country when you ship something, it takes all the worrying and so on out of it. Even if it said "You are now #863 in line" I could see it slowly go down...
 
jbrinker said:
Thanks for letting me rant everyone. Strangely it feels better ;). Dr. Bruce emailed me and indicated he would try to call. How on earth he has time to do everything he does is beyond me. I doubt it will matter to the faceless bureaucracy but I can hope. And if not, well, at least I hopefully only have a few weeks left. Trying to target checkride for fall, flying 2 times a week. That might not be enough, but I can put in more time once I'm sure I actually have a medical.
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In the mean time, you can study for the written and get that knocked out.
 
jbrinker said:
Ugh. I didn't post this in medical topics, because I feel its a more general issue affecting all PPL to one extent or another.

I'm just frustrated and need to vent. I've spent thousand$ getting all my ducks in a row over the past 6 months, have worked with Dr. Bruce (great guy), flown to Peoria, and to Chicago for the proper evaluations. Dr. Bruce is very confident I will be issued, but it's just taking SO LONG it's driving me nuts. I call roughly weekly, and it's always the same story. "I see your application is in here, its with the reviewer". It's been 8 weeks since it was overnight-ed in to them, and 7 since it was fully scanned into their system.

So I called again yesterday. This time she says "I see your application, its in line to go to the reviewer". Ugh, what does that mean? I'm not in the pile, I'm still in the line! Probably 2 or more weeks to go is my guess. I'm ready to solo, I would have last week probably if I had the medical. Yes, I have a lot of other flying to do to, and I'm proceeding on course with that, but it just gets so discouraging.

A couple weeks ago it was beautiful flying weather here for about 10 days, and during that time I was grounded because my instructor was waiting for HIS medical! It took them over 10 weeks from the time of submission.

The whole 3rd class medical - I think it's 90% silly (as empirically proven by Sport Pilot, which disproportionately attracts those WITH disqualifying conditions, and the accident rate is no worse). But even tossing that aside and saying "well, we still need to screen for these potentially dangerous conditions" OK - fine, but can we get the FAA to hold up their end of the bargain? A couple weeks to review, OK, maybe even a month. But this is just ridiculous.

Sorry for the rant :). Feel free to grab a pitchfork and join in :mad:
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It took me about 13 months to get my first medical due to a Special Issuance. Feel your pain.
 
@jordane93 - That's exactly what I did while my instructor was grounded for 2 weeks! All set on that front (and just in time before the test changes!). Got an 85, which ****ed me off since I had been getting 95's in practice. Goofed on at least 2 super easy questions (figure it out from the almost totally useless review which ones I missed).

@labbadabba - Wow! That really sucks. If I count from the time I started working with Dr. Bruce, I'm on month 8 now. Some of that wait is definitely just because the holidays fell in the middle of it though.

Moral of the story for anyone that thinks they may be special issuance (or just have to check any of the boxes that will defer your app to the FAA) plan on a good long wait...
 
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AggieMike88 said:
Really doubt that.
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I dunno, but it's a useless exercise, so if something doesn't make sense, following the money often makes it clearer. If an AME does one III Class a week, makes a $100, is $5K a year enough to keep him in the fold? Or, maybe three a week?

I really don't know. . .pretty sure the "volume" is used to support/defend positions in FAA Aeromedical, though. It certainly doesn't serve a legitimate medical need. . .
 
My AME is a HIMS Senior AME. His sole practice is being an AME. He's also a member of our flying club. I went to see him yesterday to renew my 3rd class (annual renewal due to an SI) and while the actual business at hand didn't take much time, I was there for close to an hour and a half as we discussed issues in the flying club, SCUBA diving and other weighty matters. He's retired from his main activity (I understand he was a surgeon previously) and does this from an office built behind his house. Great guy, totally dedicated to keeping pilots flying. A local Bruce Chien (and that's about as good as it gets).

And, yes, I've had times in the past where it took a while to get the bureaucracy to let me commit acts of aviation again. OP, keep your chin up and you'll get your 3rd class. Bruce is great and I'm glad to see you're working with him. If he thinks it can be done, it will be done. Just, slowly.
 
Jbrinker: I drove 14 hrs. to see Dr. Bruce for my physical. Spend weeks prior to that getting thru all the paper work, letters from Doctors, etc. Dr. Bruce guided me every step. Submitted my paper work last week of Feb. I called initially and was told it was "on the conveyor" so to speak. Have not heard another word. I understand your frustration.

I have a plane and CFI lined up to complete a BFR. It has been many yrs. since I've flown. My CFI said I would not have to wait to begin, but there are several things I want
to purchase: Headset, I pad, aviation app and I want to enroll in a IFR ground school. But, I am not going to spend several hundred $ more until I have the III in hand.

I have been told they they are very understaffed.
So, I just sit and wait and run to the mailbox every time the mail lady comes by. Hope we find out soon. It's got me on pins and needles.
 
All you guys waiting on a 3rd class and whiling away your time, have you considered taking up soaring in the meanwhile?
You don't need a medical, only to self certify as "healthy", although your CFI-G might have a problem releasing you for solo if you show up wheezing and dragging a white cane.
But if you have a valid driver's license and believe there is a decent chance the FAA will approve you for a 3rd class, odds are you'd be good enough to solo gliders.
And if you think gliders are somehow inferior or less fun than powered airplanes, I can assure you that if you love flying, this is the pinnacle. It doesn't get any better, believe me!
(And when/if you get your vaunted 3rd class and start flying power planes, your glider experience will make you a much better pilot, as a bonus.)
 
Well I'm not wheezing, nor do I have to use a cane, yet. Many years ago, I did considerable time in a Schwitzer 1:22. Forgot how to spell Switchzer, forgive me. It was
a great time. You are right, there is nothing to compare with powered planes. It is so quiet. I lived in the panhandle of Texas at the time and in the summer months the thermals can be very strong and very abundant. I live in East Texas now, and there is not much, if any, glider activity here. There may be some around, but I am not aware of
them. It does, as you said, make you a better pilot. Thank you, for the reminder of good times. I will get the medical, just have to wait on Uncle Sam. He is getting old
and may need a cane. Hope he keeps breathing long enough to get me the medical.

Jim Vines
 
jbrinker said:
Ugh. I didn't post this in medical topics, because I feel its a more general issue affecting all PPL to one extent or another.

I'm just frustrated and need to vent. I've spent thousand$ getting all my ducks in a row over the past 6 months, have worked with Dr. Bruce (great guy), flown to Peoria, and to Chicago for the proper evaluations. Dr. Bruce is very confident I will be issued, but it's just taking SO LONG it's driving me nuts. I call roughly weekly, and it's always the same story. "I see your application is in here, its with the reviewer". It's been 8 weeks since it was overnight-ed in to them, and 7 since it was fully scanned into their system.

So I called again yesterday. This time she says "I see your application, its in line to go to the reviewer". Ugh, what does that mean? I'm not in the pile, I'm still in the line! Probably 2 or more weeks to go is my guess. I'm ready to solo, I would have last week probably if I had the medical. Yes, I have a lot of other flying to do to, and I'm proceeding on course with that, but it just gets so discouraging.

A couple weeks ago it was beautiful flying weather here for about 10 days, and during that time I was grounded because my instructor was waiting for HIS medical! It took them over 10 weeks from the time of submission.

The whole 3rd class medical - I think it's 90% silly (as empirically proven by Sport Pilot, which disproportionately attracts those WITH disqualifying conditions, and the accident rate is no worse). But even tossing that aside and saying "well, we still need to screen for these potentially dangerous conditions" OK - fine, but can we get the FAA to hold up their end of the bargain? A couple weeks to review, OK, maybe even a month. But this is just ridiculous.

Sorry for the rant :). Feel free to grab a pitchfork and join in :mad:[/QUOTE
Click to expand...
 
Just as an update: completed a 3rd class today. Healthy 44 year old. 1.5 hours at a new AME and $319 and I can fly again. Tell me again it's not about the money?
 
jbrinker said:
Moral of the story for anyone that thinks they may be special issuance (or just have to check any of the boxes that will defer your app to the FAA) plan on a good long wait...
Click to expand...

I don't know if the process has changed since mid-2013 but I went for my 3rd class prior to solo and informed the AME of my Sleep Apnea condition. I had the necessary documentation ready, but he still deferred it to OKC, and noted that he asked them to expidite due to an impending solo.

I had a medical in my mailbox in about 2 weeks.

Medicals since then he has not deferred, and it's a doctor's visit and that's the end of it. Medical every 2 years, each year in between I submit to him a status report from my sleep doctor stating that I'm complying with the therapy(IE using the CPAP) and he prints me a new medical and mails it to me without a visit to the office.
 
Ghery said:
My AME is a HIMS Senior AME. His sole practice is being an AME. He's also a member of our flying club. I went to see him yesterday to renew my 3rd class (annual renewal due to an SI) and while the actual business at hand didn't take much time, I was there for close to an hour and a half as we discussed issues in the flying club, SCUBA diving and other weighty matters. He's retired from his main activity (I understand he was a surgeon previously) and does this from an office built behind his house. Great guy, totally dedicated to keeping pilots flying. A local Bruce Chien (and that's about as good as it gets).

And, yes, I've had times in the past where it took a while to get the bureaucracy to let me commit acts of aviation again. OP, keep your chin up and you'll get your 3rd class. Bruce is great and I'm glad to see you're working with him. If he thinks it can be done, it will be done. Just, slowly.
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I switched to the same guy for my most recent medical and will continue to see him. He is a really nice guy on top of being quick but thorough with my exam.
 
Sundancer said:
It is a low cost visit, and the office can plug you in to any unfilled slot. But point taken, I don't think doctors are raking it in doing III Class exams.

Judging by the blizzard of reminder cards I get, there must be some profit in it?
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I recently resigned as an AME after I closed my solo practice ( which had nothing to do with the AME, I simply couldn't keep up with Govt and Insurance demands anymore). I charged about that much and I didn't do it to make a profit, I loved working with pilots.
 
To the OP, I know what you are going thru. But just hang in, it will come eventually.

I went to an AME for a Class III and I passed it and he gave me my certificate. But my vision in one eye is below 20/20, and can't be corrected (cornea damage). He told me that I "may" hear from OKC. This was May 2013, and by August, I heard nothing, so I assumed that I was good to go, so I started my training. A couple more months passed by, I'm deeper into training, and I get a letter saying "we cannot approve yourt medical at this time". And a list of tests, medical records from 16-17 years before that they want me to get and send to them. I got all the records and did the tests, took about a month and cost me a few hundred dollars (I did the tests using my insurance luckily). Then I sent it in and the waiting began.

After a couple of months, I was getting closer to soloing and had to just keep flying and flying and flying. After a few more moths, I contacted the Deputy Regional Flight Surgeon in the Eastern district, and I think that they were able to make it move. While I was waiting for it, I just kept flying so that I wouldn't get rusty, and finally when got my medical and solo'ed, I was at 112 hours.

My advice to anybody who has any kind of doubt that they may not get an instant approval on the medical to get it done before you start flying at all. First, in the unlikely event that you get denied, you don't waste any time or money on flight lessons (although some would say that it would not be a waste- having flown and stopped is better than never having flown at all). And if there is a long wait (usually is), it won't be so bad.
 
I found the regional flight surgeon and her pilot advocate deputy were instrumental in unwedging my SI years ago. We're talking about the people in Jomocha Plains, right? Nice operation (compared to the illiterate reviewers in Joklahoma City).
 
The Eastern Regiona Flight Surgeon is located at JFK, or close by, I think. They go out of their way to help pilots. They may be able to un-stall the application through.
 
First timer? OKC will advise you to allow 90 days for an SI. My RFS does mine and my last SI letter said to submit my renewal 30 days in advance. Once a reviewer has your file your RFS may not be able to do anything to help you. And fwiw, the OKC reviewer probably isn't in OKC. The reviewer physicians have computers and work remotely. I bet most of them can read, too!

SIs aren't a big deal once you learn how to play the game. My current SI required a 6 month wait before I could get the tests done and move forward with applying for an SI. And then I had to wait some more. So it goes. It gets easier after a few renewals. There are some dos and don'ts to learn. You'll either figure it out or you can become another forum bitcher. Figuring it out worked better for me.
 
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orange said:
The Eastern Regiona Flight Surgeon is located at JFK, or close by, I think. They go out of their way to help pilots. They may be able to un-stall the application through.
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Harriet Lester and her pilot advocate (can't remember her name). They are indeed tucked in between the Belt Parkway and the FedEx facility on the Cargo area.
 
flyingron said:
Harriet Lester and her pilot advocate (can't remember her name). They are indeed tucked in between the Belt Parkway and the FedEx facility on the Cargo area.
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I think you are talking about Maureen, but I mostly dealt with Dr. Dominick Zito, the Deputy Flight Surgeon, since I met him in a WINGS seminar. He was very helpful.
 
@Stewartb To be clear, I was just frustrated with the process (3rd class in general). Certainly NOT with any of the medical staff. I know from talking to Dr. Bruce that they are highly professional, and severely overloaded. Not much I can do except wait, which I am resigned to do (and Dr. B. indicated that any other action would almost certainly result in a longer delay). As I said, I still have plenty of flying to do, so I've gotten on with it and really it won't matter much. By the time I actually solo it will simply not be a big deal. That's fine, I still have at least 2 months of work flying part time before I absolutely need to be doing stuff solo.

I think the thing that tweaked me was the other 2 week wait for my instructor to get his medical straight as well. But that's all history now, time to go fly more. Yeah, I can't wait for the day that medical shows up, but I'm not gonna let it slow me down too much.
 
arnoha said:
Honestly, I can't understand how it's even that. I was charged $99 for my third class medical. I can't see how any doctor is making any money with a charge that low. The visit was a half hour and there was piles of paperwork.
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That's what my physician said. Very little revenue. Maybe it draws people to your practices and you get a few patients you wouldnt normally have.
 
rbridges said:
That's what my physician said. Very little revenue. Maybe it draws people to your practices and you get a few patients you wouldnt normally have.
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I doubt it. Most pilots would never visit their AME for any reason except their medical.
 
My dad has been trying to get a medical after 20 years of not flying and two double by-passes later. He got in touch with a Senior AME who laid everything and told him what tests he needed and to just hand carry the results from the Cardiologist to him. My did all that but must have mentioned it in passing why he wanted to hand carry everything to the AME and apparently the Cardiologist obliged but sent a copy directly to the FAA anyway. The Senior AME was ready to write him a medical on the spot but the system wouldn't let him because he had applied or had action in the system within the previous 90 days (which he had not). The only thing they can figure out is that the Cardiologist sending it to the FAA did something in the system.

So now he is waiting in line for the third time in a year to hear his verdict. He is discouraged enough that he is ready to just give up if he is not successful on this attempt. That would be yet another pretty much healthy pilot that want's to fly and buy a plane out the door thanks to the FAA.
 
jbrinker said:
@Stewartb To be clear, I was just frustrated with the process (3rd class in general). Certainly NOT with any of the medical staff. I know from talking to Dr. Bruce that they are highly professional, and severely overloaded. . .
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Kinder description than I would use . . . I'd go with self-perpetuating, self serving bureacracy, capable of loosing the same piece of paper at least three times, feeding a pointless process that probably reduces safety far more than it has ever enhanced it. I'm thinking degraded proficiency, while waiting for Larry, Moe, and Curly to shove documents at each other.

I imagine that the doctors are competent, and overworked, as you say. . .just that working hard isn't the same as being productive, if the product approaches zero value, as does the III Class.
 
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