Ramp checks at OSH?

Just a quick clarification, the FAA has removed any mention of promoting GA from it's mission, goals, or duty. That's been, oh 20 years or more now.

As for attitude, or behavior, not just the FAA, but most if not all fed agencies with direct contact to the public have little or no regard for doing their job with any respect for the public at large. There is no downside to not being polite, or helpful, no one can or will get fired. On the other hand, if they are helpful, or accommodating to a pilot/A&P and something goes wrong, that could negatively affect their career so there's no incentive to make something good happen anymore. Strict code behavior.

Here's my latest interaction. The bill of sale form is a two/three part with the pink copy being retained by the buyer for use until the FAA comes through with the perm reg. You can't download it. I go to the local FSDO. It's in a heavily secured building with no signage or other indication except a solid steel door with; "Flight Standards District Office", and a long winded warning about trespassing, years in jail, video surveillance, etc. There's a cypher lock on the door, and a small button buzzer with the word 'visitor' over it. I push it, and a speaker squawks at me: "Yes?" I explain I am here to pick up a form xxx aircraft bill of sale. I wait. Nothing. I buzz again, different voice; 'Yes?', I explain I'm here to pick up a bill of sale form, and get an angry reply; 'well, you just need to wait - we are looking for it and when we find one you'll be the second to know'.

The FAA. We're not happy until you're not happy. But - it's in keeping with all other federal agencies, like the nice folk at EPA. Now, if you were a minority, and were seeking some kind of financial cash assistance from them, it's like old home week and they couldn't be nicer.:confused:

Well, the FAA isn't there to promote GA, it's there to keep it insurable; same for all of aviation. Without standards and some enforcement, then the actuaries can't make valid predictions and the insurability model ceases to exist. What would happen with no FAA is GA wouldn't be able to afford the insurance premium. GA has limits of liability though, so GA is not a critical concern. Pretty much every small GA payout is limited to hull value + $1MM liability.

Air carrier operations are basically unlimited liability, and Strict Liability at that. Air Carrier ops standards enforcement is the FAA's primary function, because that is where the real risk is in numbers. The entire SEL fleet could get totaled and it not cost the insurers what an accident like Tennerife would cost today. Their duty is to address the big ticket items first. They don't really even want to deal with GA, that's why SP and LSA are such that it's basically hands off from the FAA perspective. They have set on the minimum of standards and left all enforcement up to industry. All you need to show FAA is proof of training to a minimum standard to take a passenger, and to a bit of a higher standard to instruct and maintain your own plane.

It's sad what happened to the FSDOs post 9/11. I remember just going next door and walking in the LGB FSDO to get a simple question answered, and the dude at the desk was always happy to oblige.
 
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Well, the FAA isn't there to promote GA,

It's sad what happened to the FSDOs post 9/11. I remember just going next door and walking in the LGB FSDO to get a simple question answered, and the dude at the desk was always happy to oblige.

It used to be stated in their charter back around the 90s and before. Gone.

I don't mind security, although who is going to attack the FSDO is beyond me? There are no more answers to simple questions. There are few phones answered, and messages returned, and everything that I've been involved in is strictly by the book, and there are no interpretations at the local level.

I had a tow plane that I put an oil cooler out in front of the cowl exit. It was a simple install, and back in 1982 had absolutely no problem getting signed off. It helped keep the engine extra cool while towing. I can't imagine what would happen now if I tried to install one. (note; this last para is just to **** off R&W)
 
Did someone call my name?

I find those kind of comments a bit funny. I always wonder where the FAA Civil Servant Jerks all congregate. In over 25 years I haven't met one yet, even post accident.:dunno: Can't really recall an ATC jerk either.
 
It used to be stated in their charter back around the 90s and before. Gone.

IIRC, it was the furor over the Valuejet crash in the Everglades that led to removal of promoting aviation from the FAA's charter. After that, it was supposed to be safety only.
 
(note; this last para is just to **** off R&W)

CpK7940661_zpsc1c2f002.jpg
 
And if you enjoy being the hated authority figure, chances are you're part of the problem.


As for getting ramped as OSH, I really wouldn't worry about it, I mean it's probably the last thing the Feds want to do, plus the odds of you getting ramped with that many other planes and fuss going on.

I say shy of you having a plane with a flap dangling off or something's huge and obvious, you're probably safe.
 
And if you enjoy being the hated authority figure, chances are you're part of the problem.


As for getting ramped as OSH, I really wouldn't worry about it, I mean it's probably the last thing the Feds want to do, plus the odds of you getting ramped with that many other planes and fuss going on.

I say shy of you having a plane with a flap dangling off or something's huge and obvious, you're probably safe.


I can't recall ever seeing a Fed inspecting a plane unless there was an accident involved. I've never heard of anyone being randomly tagged for a discrepancy or getting ramp checked. There is a rather small FSDO contingent there, and they don't seem particulately inclined to increase their workload any.

Getting ramp checked at OSH is not a concern I would have. The exposure I would have by being at risk in a ramp check is a different concern. At that point I want to be insured, which means I will be in a situation that passes the requirements of a ramp check. This is how GA is actually regulated for risk, for the most part it self regulates at people's level of risk exposure comfort. If my exposure is such I need insurance, I need to abide by all the rules. If I don't need insurance? I don't need any of it and could fly privately, indefinitely without any real risk of penalty. It's not exactly rare for people to fly outside the system, especially when you're flying between private and rural strips. Just don't call attention to yourself.
 
After 50 Pt 135 check rides with the FAA, in general.......they are talented and dedicated public servants.

There were a few, mostly just out of FAA school, who thought they were god. One went so far as seeking an annual inspection record of our King Air.

And let's not forget the two rogue FAA inspectors who hauled in the American WWll war hero.....Bob Hoover.......and made an unsubstantiated derogatory reports on him. After Hoover was cleared, after years, of the lies.................the two inspectors were never indicted for their criminal behavior.
 
Unlikely. I don't think he works there anymore.

In general.


I've had good experiences with the FAA, I'm also not new to this stuff and know there are some not so nice FAA guys too. Ether way that would be my last concern for OSH.
 
Yeah, I know, you're right. That plane shown above has "just a paperwork problem." :rolleyes2:

I referring more to your cavalier tarnishing of half the pilot population as willful lawbreakers and pointing out that A) Not all laws are created equal, particularly when B) The agency that writes, interprets and enforces the "laws" (or more to the point the FARs which have the effect of law) is largely unchecked and its actors unaccountable. It is hardly the only one; its just the nearest and dearest to our hearts. Multiply by every alphabet soup agency in Washington DC and you begin to grasp the scope of the leviathan that is our metastasized federal government. Make of it what you will.
 
I referring more to your cavalier tarnishing of half the pilot population as willful lawbreakers and pointing out that A) Not all laws are created equal, particularly when B) The agency that writes, interprets and enforces the "laws" (or more to the point the FARs which have the effect of law) is largely unchecked and its actors unaccountable. It is hardly the only one; its just the nearest and dearest to our hearts. Multiply by every alphabet soup agency in Washington DC and you begin to grasp the scope of the leviathan that is our metastasized federal government. Make of it what you will.

Yea, but without all those alphabet soup agencies and the leviathan of the federal government a huge swath of the lawyer types would be out of business, right? Parasites need something to feed off of. :rolleyes:
 
IIRC, it was the furor over the Valuejet crash in the Everglades that led to removal of promoting aviation from the FAA's charter. After that, it was supposed to be safety only.

Thank you. I wasn't aware of the background. Just that when I started flying in the late 70s, the FAA was helpful, and would help benefit most of GA with their issues, and requests.
 
Thank you. I wasn't aware of the background. Just that when I started flying in the late 70s, the FAA was helpful, and would help benefit most of GA with their issues, and requests.

I'm having trouble reconciling where that aspect is not the same.:dunno: Sure, you have the post 9/11 "call for an appointment" and park half a mile from the door security crap, but as far as the service from the FSDO, outside the periods and areas of budgetary shut down, the service I've received has always been positive, including my accident. Just not seeing it...:dunno:
 
Here's my latest interaction. The bill of sale form is a two/three part with the pink copy being retained by the buyer for use until the FAA comes through with the perm reg. You can't download it. I go to the local FSDO. It's in a heavily secured building with no signage or other indication except a solid steel door with; "Flight Standards District Office", and a long winded warning about trespassing, years in jail, video surveillance, etc. There's a cypher lock on the door, and a small button buzzer with the word 'visitor' over it. I push it, and a speaker squawks at me: "Yes?" I explain I am here to pick up a form xxx aircraft bill of sale. I wait. Nothing. I buzz again, different voice; 'Yes?', I explain I'm here to pick up a bill of sale form, and get an angry reply; 'well, you just need to wait - we are looking for it and when we find one you'll be the second to know':

So your beef with the FAA is based on inadequate signage and an inability to fetch a form fast enough for you? Did you call them ahead of time?

BTW, the form is online, and you can download it.
 
So your beef with the FAA is based on inadequate signage and an inability to fetch a form fast enough for you? Did you call them ahead of time?

BTW, the form is online, and you can download it.

No. Not my beef. It's with their attitude, which was evidenced by these factors. Yes, note that I mentioned previous that no one answer the phone, and messages aren't returned.

BTW, in Jan 2013, the form was not downloadable. It had to be filled out with the carbon copies so that the pink copy was kept in the plane until the perm was sent. That is no longer the case.
 
Gotta love the expert with an obsession from a fictional charter of "House" (a cancelled TV show).

POA is awesome entertainment. Gives you great credibility.

I think Wiley coyote and the roadrunner shared the same sentiment years before "House"!!!:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
Gotta love the expert with an obsession from a fictional charter of "House" (a cancelled TV show).

POA is awesome entertainment. Gives you great credibility.

I think Wiley coyote and the roadrunner shared the same sentiment years before "House"!!!:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Credibility is earned here through the history of what you've posted, not by what character you choose for your avatar. R&W, while blunt, has a lot of relevant life experiences to draw upon and share.

You? Besides emulating CTLSi, what's your contribution?
 
My two cents.... Ramp check? Who cares... All they want to see is your pilot certificate, medical, photo ID, and possibly the registration, airworthiness certificate, and weight and balance on the airplane. You need these to fly anyway, so whats the big deal of having a FSDO inspector ask to see them? Flyins/airshows or not, ramp checks can happen everywhere and are not something to be afraid of (unless you are hiding something or flying illegally). Plus, if you remember, back in the 80s and 90s, ramp checks happened a hell of a lot more than they do now. You get further with the FAA by being polite, professional, etc. rather than being rude/standoffish. Me, personally, I could care less if an inspector walks up to me at an airport and ramps me at an airshow or when I'm getting gas somewhere.
 
the only issues that I have heard of were the aircraft that were violated at SNF. I have seen pictures of the N numbers on them, and there was no question they did not meet the requirements of section 45.
 
the only issues that I have heard of were the aircraft that were violated at SNF. I have seen pictures of the N numbers on them, and there was no question they did not meet the requirements of section 45.


I agree.... Personally I don't understand how they got past their DAR /FAA airworthiness inspection.....
 
Yea, but without all those alphabet soup agencies and the leviathan of the federal government a huge swath of the lawyer types would be out of business, right? Parasites need something to feed off of. :rolleyes:

Quoth the poster who wears his FAA-employee time as a chip on his shoulder. :yes:
 
Probably just like I did. The inspection was before the paint went on.

That is a possibility.....

Altho a person who can build show planes of that quality should know the rules for displaying N numbers... They clearly were pushing the envelope..:yes:
 
Why is it that the weekend warrior type pilots have such a huge problem with the FAA? I've never had anything but good interactions with the FAA, in a variety of situations.


I've had a run-in with the FAA and to be honest, all of them that I dealt with (except one) were very courteous and almost friendly. It seemed to me they just wanted to do their job and make sure all the I's were dotted and T's crossed.

Having said that, a buddy had his Cessna 150 grounded by a FED from a local on airport FSDO. Apparently his plane was parked on the ramp and a FED gave it a once over. He grounded it because of a non-standard aileron hinge. Funny thing is, that hinge had been on there for 20+ years and every A&P that did an annual signed it off. Needless to say he was required to buy a new hinge from Cessna to make it "right".




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Better have all your ducks lined up for small airshows in California. The aircraft registration on a P-51 had blown out of the holder and fallen down in the fuse. 5 FAA agents were blanketing the warbirds flown in........they were thrilled to finally ground one of the big birds. They allowed no slack and did all in their power to make sure one of the nice attractions at the show couldn't go up. It could have been a small deal of getting a faxed copy from the FSDO.......they wouldn't allow it. Left a nasty impression on the warbird guys...........so take it fwiw............
 
Better have all your ducks lined up for small airshows in California. The aircraft registration on a P-51 had blown out of the holder and fallen down in the fuse. 5 FAA agents were blanketing the warbirds flown in........they were thrilled to finally ground one of the big birds. They allowed no slack and did all in their power to make sure one of the nice attractions at the show couldn't go up. It could have been a small deal of getting a faxed copy from the FSDO.......they wouldn't allow it. Left a nasty impression on the warbird guys...........so take it fwiw............

What airport?
 
... know your W&B,....

I carry the weight and balance. That's a sheet of paper that only changes when equipment that is part of the plane changes. The weight and balance I calculate (sometimes) for a particular flight is not what they want to see.
 
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