Ramp checks at OSH?

Norman said:
Care to put some money where your mouth is?
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Obvious hyperbole. Cops rarely get fired, and they certainly won't for one complaint of civil rights violations. I'd be happy to put money on that.
 
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N801BH said:
Yeah....

Months later after the "suspects" are arrested, in jail, vehicle impounded, Huge legal bills... etc etc... :rolleyes:
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You can't prevent a cop from stopping you, not sure what to tell you. If you feel the stop was unreasonable, that's what 42 U.S.C. Section 1983 is for. If you end up in jail though, the cop likely found something. And it's much harder to argue the cop had no reasonable suspicion if he did end up finding something, e.g. drugs. The obvious retort is: "well my suspicion was obviously reasonable because it was correct."

What's really outrageous are the border searches, including dismantling of the vehicle, that require no reasonable suspicion whatsoever. See United States v. Flores-Montano, 541 U.S. 149 (2004) (disassembly of vehicle gas tank at border requires no reasonable suspicion).
 
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Neal Howard said:
I'd be more worried about them wandering the OSH campgrounds at night recording who's snoring for OSA than ramp checks.
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:rofl:

Ramp checks at flyins are really frown upon. However, if you see a pink shirt headed your way with a badge around "its" neck run! :lol:
 
ramp checks aside, if you park in vintage or exp I'd encourage you to have your plane judged. The judges comments make for interesting reading, with just an external look they see things most of us miss.
 
frcabot said:
It's a private site, the mods can do anything they want. I think I give pretty good gouge, so I'm not sure where these troll accusations come from other than the people I blocked for being idiots. They generally fall into two categories: homophobic bigots, and the mentally deficient (but who think they're God's gift to mankind and are quick with insults) - plus there tends to be significant overlap between the two. I can't stand either group, which is why they go straight on my ignore list.
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Curious about the term "Homophobic" Now that homosexuality is a non-issue due to marriage equality and all of the anti-discrimination laws... Is Homophobic a physical or mental disorder that needs it's own protected class and equal protection issues?

Don't hate the straight. Wow! I might have to get the t-shirt mill running
 
rolivi said:
Curious about the term "Homophobic" Now that homosexuality is a non-issue due to marriage equality and all of the anti-discrimination laws... Is Homophobic a physical or mental disorder that needs it's own protected class and equal protection issues?

Don't hate the straight. Wow! I might have to get the t-shirt mill running
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Not really appropriate for this forum and I don't want to get into it. Do you consider racism a physical or mental disorder that needs its (not it's) own protected class?
 
frcabot said:
Not really appropriate for this forum and I don't want to get into it. ....
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Dude, you were the one who brought it up :lol:


We all were talking about airplanes and ramp checks and you came out of left field talking about sexual preferences lol



I really don't care about what, or who, you do behind closed doors and I really don't want to hear about it. Maybe find some gay forum and talk about being gay there, folks going to OSH, or talking about OSH are interested in talking about aviation, not sexual preferences.


Why is there always some person who just has to bring sexual preference, gender or race into every friggin subject :mad2:
 
James331 said:
Dude, you were the one who brought it up


We all were talking about airplanes and ramp checks and you came out of left field talking about sexual preferences lol



I really don't care about what, or who, you do behind closed doors and I really don't want to hear about it. Maybe find some gay forum and talk about being gay there, folks going to OSH, or talking about OSH are interested in talking about aviation, not sexual preferences.


Why is there always some person who just has to bring sexual preference, gender or race into every friggin subject :mad2:
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I was responding to someone else as you well know.
 
JHW said:
ramp checks aside, if you park in vintage or exp I'd encourage you to have your plane judged. The judges comments make for interesting reading, with just an external look they see things most of us miss.
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I know I'm way to modded out to place. They like them the closer to how they rolled off the assembly line.

But I might try.... you never know. I don't think it costs anything?

I don't even have the original propeller.



rk-C170-N751S-27.jpg
 
Gotta give frcabot credit.

He's gone toe to toe with you guys and he's holding his own pretty good.

This is an intimidating board. You guys flamed the **** out of me when I was just a newborn. Now go **** yourselves. ;):lol:
 
For the naive in the gallery: the problem behind ramp checks is that the cantankerous and self-important civil servant can and likely will utilize any cosmetic deficiency or missing fastener on a plastic fairing on your non-cherry airplane to deem the airplane unworthy and ruin your weekend. Bullying behavior that goes against the promotion of general aviation and has nothing to do with safety. It's not about ARROW at all; the vast majority of active participants are ARROW legal, and you'd know that if you were an aircraft owner in today's economic landscape.

To follow up on the point of the thread; to exhibit said gratuitous bullying behavior at large is reprehensible enough, but to do so at a mass gathering of the activity is to invite immediate and vocal discontent for the FAA in front of media outlets, which normally are not otherwise present when these gestapo tactics are at play in Nowhereville airport USA and a victim sample of n=1. That's why even the FAA backs off, because they know the probative value of letting their jackals loose at public gatherings isn't worth it to them in the aggregate, which is also an implicit allocution that their duties are not inherently necessary or valuable in the aggregate, if you think about it.


And don't get me started on the CBP.......
 
hindsight2020 said:
For the naive in the gallery: the problem behind ramp checks is that the cantankerous and self-important civil servant can and likely will utilize any cosmetic deficiency or missing fastener on a plastic fairing on your non-cherry airplane to deem the airplane unworthy and ruin your weekend. Bullying behavior that goes against the promotion of general aviation and has nothing to do with safety. It's not about ARROW at all; the vast majority of active participants are ARROW legal, and you'd know that if you were an aircraft owner in today's economic landscape.

To follow up on the point of the thread; to exhibit said gratuitous bullying behavior at large is reprehensible enough, but to do so at a mass gathering of the activity is to invite immediate and vocal discontent for the FAA in front of media outlets, which normally are not otherwise present when these gestapo tactics are at play in Nowhereville airport USA and a victim sample of n=1. That's why even the FAA backs off, because they know the probative value of letting their jackals loose at public gatherings isn't worth it to them in the aggregate, which is also an implicit allocution that their duties are not inherently necessary or valuable in the aggregate, if you think about it.


And don't get me started on the CBP.......
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Just AROW now. For a second I thought you were talking about the bullying on this forum. :D
 
hindsight2020 said:
For the naive in the gallery: the problem behind ramp checks is that the cantankerous and self-important civil servant can and likely will utilize any cosmetic deficiency or missing fastener on a plastic fairing on your non-cherry airplane to deem the airplane unworthy and ruin your weekend. Bullying behavior that goes against the promotion of general aviation and has nothing to do with safety. It's not about ARROW at all; the vast majority of active participants are ARROW legal, and you'd know that if you were an aircraft owner in today's economic landscape.

To follow up on the point of the thread; to exhibit said gratuitous bullying behavior at large is reprehensible enough, but to do so at a mass gathering of the activity is to invite immediate and vocal discontent for the FAA in front of media outlets, which normally are not otherwise present when these gestapo tactics are at play in Nowhereville airport USA and a victim sample of n=1. That's why even the FAA backs off, because they know the probative value of letting their jackals loose at public gatherings isn't worth it to them in the aggregate, which is also an implicit allocution that their duties are not inherently necessary or valuable in the aggregate, if you think about it.


And don't get me started on the CBP.......
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Just curious, can you cite actual examples (names, location, registration) of ramp checks that you witnessed such behavior?
 
Why is it that the weekend warrior type pilots have such a huge problem with the FAA? I've never had anything but good interactions with the FAA, in a variety of situations.
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
Why is it that the weekend warrior type pilots have such a huge problem with the FAA? I've never had anything but good interactions with the FAA, in a variety of situations.
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This CAN'T be true. With all the anecdotal evidence in this thread, the only possibility is that it happens just the way that they say it does.:no:

Every single FAA employee has to be a civil servant JERK.:(
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
Why is it that the weekend warrior type pilots have such a huge problem with the FAA? I've never had anything but good interactions with the FAA, in a variety of situations.
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Maybe because at least a third and maybe closer to a half of the ones I've met are knowingly non-compliant in one way or another...either themselves or the plane.

Life's tough when you have something to hide...and it's always someone else's fault if/when caught.
 
timwinters said:
Maybe because at least a third and maybe closer to a half of the ones I've met are knowingly non-compliant in one way or another...either themselves or the plane.

Life's tough when you have something to hide...and it's always someone else's fault if/when caught.
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:thumbsup:
 
And many A&Ps are no better. Can you believe this had been signed off at annual for numerous years by our local pencil whipping specialist?

attachment.php


And it's worse than it appears. The photo was taken in the dim light of a hangar. Another A&P who'll never touch my plane!

Oh...and one of those airplane owners who instructs his family to burn the logbooks if he ever crashes.

But, of cours, the FAA will be the bad guys if they ever come around and nail someone's ass to the wall.
 
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hindsight2020 said:
Bullying behavior that goes against the promotion of general aviation and has nothing to do with safety. It's not about ARROW at all; the vast majority of active participants are ARROW legal, and you'd know that if you were an aircraft owner in today's economic landscape.


And don't get me started on the CBP.......
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Just a quick clarification, the FAA has removed any mention of promoting GA from it's mission, goals, or duty. That's been, oh 20 years or more now.

As for attitude, or behavior, not just the FAA, but most if not all fed agencies with direct contact to the public have little or no regard for doing their job with any respect for the public at large. There is no downside to not being polite, or helpful, no one can or will get fired. On the other hand, if they are helpful, or accommodating to a pilot/A&P and something goes wrong, that could negatively affect their career so there's no incentive to make something good happen anymore. Strict code behavior.

Here's my latest interaction. The bill of sale form is a two/three part with the pink copy being retained by the buyer for use until the FAA comes through with the perm reg. You can't download it. I go to the local FSDO. It's in a heavily secured building with no signage or other indication except a solid steel door with; "Flight Standards District Office", and a long winded warning about trespassing, years in jail, video surveillance, etc. There's a cypher lock on the door, and a small button buzzer with the word 'visitor' over it. I push it, and a speaker squawks at me: "Yes?" I explain I am here to pick up a form xxx aircraft bill of sale. I wait. Nothing. I buzz again, different voice; 'Yes?', I explain I'm here to pick up a bill of sale form, and get an angry reply; 'well, you just need to wait - we are looking for it and when we find one you'll be the second to know'.

The FAA. We're not happy until you're not happy. But - it's in keeping with all other federal agencies, like the nice folk at EPA. Now, if you were a minority, and were seeking some kind of financial cash assistance from them, it's like old home week and they couldn't be nicer.:confused:
 
timwinters said:
And many A&Ps are no better. Can you believe this had been signed off at annual for numerous years by our local pencil whipping specialist?

attachment.php


And it's worse than it appears. The photo was taken in the dim light of a hangar. Another A&P who'll never touch my plane!

Oh...and one of those airplane owners who instructs his family to burn the logbooks if he ever crashes.

But, of cours, the FAA will be the bad guys if they ever come around and nail someone's ass to the wall.
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Why is this an airworthiness issue?
 
docmirror said:
Just a quick clarification, the FAA has removed any mention of promoting GA from it's mission, goals, or duty. That's been, oh 20 years or more now.

As for attitude, or behavior, not just the FAA, but most if not all fed agencies with direct contact to the public have little or no regard for doing their job with any respect for the public at large. There is no downside to not being polite, or helpful, no one can or will get fired. On the other hand, if they are helpful, or accommodating to a pilot/A&P and something goes wrong, that could negatively affect their career so there's no incentive to make something good happen anymore. Strict code behavior.

Here's my latest interaction. The bill of sale form is a two/three part with the pink copy being retained by the buyer for use until the FAA comes through with the perm reg. You can't download it. I go to the local FSDO. It's in a heavily secured building with no signage or other indication except a solid steel door with; "Flight Standards District Office", and a long winded warning about trespassing, years in jail, video surveillance, etc. There's a cypher lock on the door, and a small button buzzer with the word 'visitor' over it. I push it, and a speaker squawks at me: "Yes?" I explain I am here to pick up a form xxx aircraft bill of sale. I wait. Nothing. I buzz again, different voice; 'Yes?', I explain I'm here to pick up a bill of sale form, and get an angry reply; 'well, you just need to wait - we are looking for it and when we find one you'll be the second to know'.

The FAA. We're not happy until you're not happy. But - it's in keeping with all other federal agencies, like the nice folk at EPA. Now, if you were a minority, and were seeking some kind of financial cash assistance from them, it's like old home week and they couldn't be nicer.:confused:
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cat-saturday-201_zps20d0fd42.jpg
 
txflyer said:
I know I'm way to modded out to place. They like them the closer to how they rolled off the assembly line.

But I might try.... you never know. I don't think it costs anything?

I don't even have the original propeller.



rk-C170-N751S-27.jpg
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Not necessarily true. Av Shilo got a Lindy for his Comanche, and it has nearly every mod available, plus a fully glass panel. Also took "Best Comanche" from the Comanche Society.
 
timwinters said:
Maybe because at least a third and maybe closer to a half of the ones I've met are knowingly non-compliant in one way or another...either themselves or the plane.

Life's tough when you have something to hide...and it's always someone else's fault if/when caught.
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The only power any government has is to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kinds of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted - and you create a nation of lawbreakers - and then you cash in on guilt.
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This conversation reminds me of the one about all the aircraft saved because of diligent FAA regulations concerning the particulars of the airframe data plate. I mean, we haven't lost one ship yet due to data plate failure, so it must be working. :rolleyes:
 
DJTorrente said:
This conversation reminds me of the one about all the aircraft saved because of diligent FAA regulations concerning the particulars of the airframe data plate. I mean, we haven't lost one ship yet due to data plate failure, so it must be working. :rolleyes:
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Yeah, I know, you're right. That plane shown above has "just a paperwork problem." :rolleyes2:
 
timwinters said:
Maybe because at least a third and maybe closer to a half of the ones I've met are knowingly non-compliant in one way or another...either themselves or the plane.

Life's tough when you have something to hide...and it's always someone else's fault if/when caught.
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This.
 
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