Ramp checked, my first time

Does the FAA have the right to retain a pilot?

Ron Levy said:
Then, I suspect, they have to get a witness or a video camera or the like and read it to you line by line. You want to waste your time as well as theirs like that, feel free -- they get paid the same for their day's work. IOW, like the Army, they can't make you do anything, but they can make you wish you had done it.
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Ron Levy said:
Snip...

the FAA is only doing what they have to do to be able to show they complied with the law if push comes to legal shove later, and the pilot involved claims the Inspector never informed him/her of his/her rights under the PBOR as they apply to the situation at hand and as the PBOR effectively requires the FAA to do.
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No, they are doing the easy thing. As I said before, they are escalating what should be an encounter with no probable cause and no presumption of guilt to an encounter that polarizes and creates an environment of distrust. If they need some proof that I know my rights, they can ask me politely or send me a certified letter. Shoving a document in my face to sign is not the right way.

Ron, what's your horse in this race? Are you an inspector? Do you work for the FAA? I just can't understand why any US citizen pilot would not be offended by this thing.
 
Tom-D said:
Some do, some are LEOs with legal arrest authorizations.
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Must have probable cause for arrest, no getting around that. Refusing to sign a document that I am not legally required to sign is not probable cause - it's false arrest.
 
I've found ramp checks are much more prevalent on the coasts.

Had a rampcheck about a month ago, guy showed up at our hangar and wanted to check everything out, I hadn't even pre-flighted yet, so at worse it would kill some of my time/money.

Showed him everything that I had to have in the plane, ARROW, license and medical. Anything else I told him he would have to call our shop or hq and ask them.

My paper logbook and hard copies of my current electronic one, are kept at home and unless ordered to I won't show them to anyone, it's just none of their business, same goes with my personal planes logs.

It's like when you watch COPS, the cop says "mind if I search your car" and the guy says yes!

These folks are paid VERY well to FIND problems, keep in mind if there were no problems they would not have the cush gov job that they have.

Also keep in mind if they don't find anything to hang you with, it's not like you win a prize, you just get your chit torn apart and searched through and let your rights (rights which good men died to protect) get stomped on.


So:
BE NICE
SHOW THEM EVERYTHING THEY HAVE A -RIGHT- TO SEE, but NOTHING more.
 
More interesting would be to say you don't sign anything like that without consulting with your Attorney. Then what would the Inspector do? Walk around with you to find a old-times fax machine at the airport?
 
Since we are talking about FAA checks, is it normal for a repair station to be inspected on a regular basis (like every 2-3 months)? I am currently working with a shop that told me they are being inspected tomorrow. I seem to remember them being inspected a couple of months ago when I was talking to them about doing the work. Is this a sign of trouble with the shop?
 
Marauder said:
Since we are talking about FAA checks, is it normal for a repair station to be inspected on a regular basis (like every 2-3 months)? I am currently working with a shop that told me they are being inspected tomorrow. I seem to remember them being inspected a couple of months ago when I was talking to them about doing the work. Is this a sign of trouble with the shop?
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Not unless you've got pilots standing outside the front door with pickets :lol:
 
Ya know....I just have to chime in here.......

I have been flying for 30 years and I have NEVER been ramp checked, or even ever had a ramp encounter with the FAA.. The only interaction I have had was when my hangar mate. John Walton was killed in his plane and the FAA and the NTSB asked me a few questions as we looked over the wreckage.. They where polite and treated me with respect. My only three dealing with the FAA was during my experimental build for my inspection and to get my repairmens certificate.. The Wyoming FSFO is staffed by decent employees.

And when I applied to get my private airstrip blessed by the FAA , I was directed to the Denver FSDO and a lady, Marsha, down there walked me through the entire process and that went smoothly... I have had nothing but great service from the FAA...

With that said, As you all know I can be pretty " upfront" and I really try to treat others as they treat me. If an inspector asked for docs during a ramp check, I will provide him/her with those. I am legal and have nothing to hide.. If for some reason they treat me with " less then politeness" then all bets are off....;)
 
Try getting a medical without "signing" actually, "accepting" the PBOR statement online. If you don't you can't access the MedXpress form.

As far as ramp checks go, I have never had someone be over-inquisitive. Just be courteous, answer the questions but remember there's no reason to tell them your life's story either.
 
airguy said:
Must have probable cause for arrest, no getting around that. Refusing to sign a document that I am not legally required to sign is not probable cause - it's false arrest.
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This is true in civil law, administrative, not so much.
 
Tom-D said:
This is true in civil law, administrative, not so much.
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I have the "pleasure" of dealing with the feds and state on other matters on a regular basis and agree with you entirely. Everything comes with conditions and while they don't impose fines, they do sometimes require payment. Recourse is to the court system and that is not a pretty process because standards are quite subjective.
 
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