Ramp checked, my first time

never never never never carry your logbook with you unless you are a student pilot.

Take that advice for what you paid for it. But its good advice.
Can I ask why? Is there something so terrible in the average pilot's logbook that he or she wouldn't want anyone to know about it? Just askin'.

I agree that keeping all the airframe, engine and other maintenance logs in the plane is probably a really bad idea -- but that's how the club does it, and has been doing it for many years, so I guess it's how they want it done. I even let the ASI see them when he asked, and am happy to report that I was struck by neither a bolt of lightning nor an FAA violation. The whole thing was pretty cordial, if a bit time consuming.
 
Can I ask why? Is there something so terrible in the average pilot's logbook that he or she wouldn't want anyone to know about it? Just askin'.
Why carry it if you don't need it? That's just what it comes down to. I can spot errors in most people's logbook given a few minutes - so can a FSDO inspector.
 
As others have said, there is no requirement in the US to carry pilot or aircraft logs in the aircraft, except maybe student pilots.

It's a particularly bad idea to have your aircraft and engine logs anywhere except under lock and key when they are not absolutely required.

With respect to the tire, the inspector could have written you up but he just gave a verbal warning. Technically you could ignore this. Don't. Get the tire replaced.

The inspector is human and he did you a favor by not grounding your airplane on the spot.

Don't let him see that tire flying again!

If he sees that tire flying again then the odds are the next pilot won't get cut that much slack.

Going all hanger lawyer over a tire is not going to help out the GA pilot community.

What happens when you find out the "FSDO Guy" was a retreaded Navy Avionics type from the operations side of the FSDO and had no authority to tell you any thing about airworthiness of your aircraft, and the tire passes the ICAs from the manufacturer.

What then?

I would definitely know who was ramping me.

the name on the tag doesn't mean squat, it is the title that makes the issue.

"Hi, I'm an airworthiness inspector from FSDO
," or they may simply say they are a ASI, or a safety inspector, I've heard all 3 phrases used.

When you hear that, shut the hell up, answer the questions, be polite, and don't babble, they only know what you tell them and that can be used against you later.

"may I see you certificate","Yes sir".
"May I look in your aircraft", "not unless you have reason, sir".
they are not allowed to touch your aircraft with out your permission.

But tread lightly, you are teasing the bear.
 
Why carry it if you don't need it? That's just what it comes down to. I can spot errors in most people's logbook given a few minutes - so can a FSDO inspector.
Wouldn't you really like to have those pointed out? and corrected?
 
This thread got me all scared that I'm gonna get ramp checked on Sunday morning when I fly.

I have done a W&B before on the plane and I know that just me in it is fine, but anything more than two will full tanks isn't. I also know we have the airframe logs for the plane, I just don't know where they are. I've never been in the hangar yet.
 
Can I ask why? Is there something so terrible in the average pilot's logbook that he or she wouldn't want anyone to know about it? Just askin'.


It opens you up to another delay which could run itno a lot of time if he/she really wants to scrutinize your log book. It just gives them another place to go to try to find something, and while your logbook may be perfect, it also may not be. What if your CFI mistakenly put the wrong year on one of your endorsements, or some other innocent error? You could be there for hours, and then have to jump through hoops to get your flying priviliges back. If you don't believe in human error with paperwork, by all means fly with your logbook when you get your PP. FWIW, mine stays at home with my Tiger's aircraft logbooks, in a safe.
 
The only time the aircraft/engine/prop logbooks have been inside my plane is when I flew it home from North Carolina after buying it. I keep them in a safe in the house for fire safety (not concerned about theft).

I do generally keep my logbook with me. My medical is taped inside the back cover. I am fairly certain that this makes it less likely for me to lose the medical since it adds some substance. It would probably end up crinkly and unreadable otherwise. My logbook endorsements are correct.
 
I think I'll have my medical laminated when I get it. That way I can keep it with my certificate/actual license whenever I get that.
 
I called the ASI a couple of minutes ago and asked him. He said that, since I told him I'd talk to the club's maintenance officer about the tire, he didn't feel anything else was necessary. If he'd felt the tire was unsafe, he would have hung a tag on the airplane... but it wasn't something that warranted that. Friendly guy, no problems.
 
It sounds like he was just advising you that it needed replacement, a courtesy. Since he didn't take it any further I wouldn't worry about it.
I called the ASI a couple of minutes ago and asked him. He said that, since I told him I'd talk to the club's maintenance officer about the tire, he didn't feel anything else was necessary. If he'd felt the tire was unsafe, he would have hung a tag on the airplane... but it wasn't something that warranted that. Friendly guy, no problems.

:thumbsup:
 
I'm certainly not arguing that point. I'm asking because I want to know.

91.7(a) says it's a big no-no to fly when the plane is not airworthy, in addition of course to such a thing being incredibly stupid. But that's immediately followed by 91.7(b), which says that as PIC it's my call whether the airplane is airworthy or not.
What 91.7(b) really says is that you are responsible to recognize an unairworthy condition and stop the flight if one develops. It does not repeat not allow you to set your own standards for airworthiness that are lower than the FAA's. There are cases on file in which someone with appropriate qualification (e.g., an A&P mechanic) told the pilot the aircraft wasn't airworthy for some specific reason, and the pilot then flew it anyway saying s/he didn't agree with the mechanic's opinion. Those cases ended badly for the pilot, and if the NTSB web site wasn't still down, I'd provide examples.

While an FAA Ops Inspector usually isn't a mechanic, s/he is generally presumed to know whether something is airworthy or not when that something is clearly visible, such as in this case where the condition of the tire is easily discerned. The FAA still requires the Ops Inspector to coordinate with an Airworthiness Inspector before hanging an ACN on a plane, but that doesn't stop the Ops Inspector from telling the pilot, "I think this is unairworthy," and then initiating an enforcement action for a deliberate violation of 91.7 if the pilot then chooses to fly the plane "as is."

The reason I wonder is this... Engine manufacturers also specify TBO, both in operating hours and years regardless of tach time. But for Part 91 operations, you're free to ignore that and overhaul when you feel it's needed.
That's correct. TBO's are only recommendations in this case.

I just wonder if tires are the same.
Depends on what we're talking about. If it's a recommendation to replace the tire ever X number of flight hours or Y number of landings or the like, yes, you're free to ignore it. However, if it's written in the manufacturer's "instructions for continued airworthiness" (or ICAW's) that a crack of a certain depth, or wear of the tread beyond a certain point renders the tire unairworthy, then you do not have the freedom to continue to fly that tire no matter what you think or believe about the situation. In the absence of ICAW's for that tire, I suspect there are standards in AC 43-13.1B or some other FAA publication which address tire wear, too, and if those say the tire is unairworthy, you have a difficult burden to prove that your less-strict assessment is valid.

So assume that the tire does show very slight weather cracking, but in my opinion it's not critical enough to need immediate replacement. My call, or not my call?
Depends what's in the ICAW's or relevant FAA publication, but if push comes to legal shove, the presumption will be that the Ops Inspector's assessment of unairworthiness was valid unless you can prove otherwise. That would mean either showing the tire really did meet the ICAW's or other established standard of airworthiness (i.e., the tire wasn't as worn as the Inspector thought) or that your own lower standards were still safe. I suppose the first could be proven by physical evidence if you're really sure the tire was OK by the established standards, but the latter is a very tough sell.
 
In order for that scenario to happen, the inspector must also be indicted
This is not a criminal case -- no indictments. Do you mean "corroborated"?

(either a self-indict or by another inspector hanging in the shadows) since the FAA appears to require an ACN to be issued right then and there. As you may or may not realize, verbal exchanges normally leave no record and can later be disputed. E.g. "I heard him say he thought the tire cracks might make it unairworthy, but I would have expected an ACN if he was certain, but he didn't write one. So I examined the tire and in my opinion as PIC concluded it was airworthy."
Again, this is not a criminal case. The ALJ is free to accept the uncorroborated testimony of the Inspector as more credible than the pilot's self-serving testimony, and almost always does. Lots of case law on point.

No inspector has any business playing those sorts of ambiguous "gotcha!" games. The point I'd like to make is that the inspector wasn't doing any of the parties involved any favors in his ambiguous actions.
I don't see anything ambiguous here. The Inspector pointed out the problem and informed the pilot that the tire wasn't airworthy. The fact that the Ops Inspector didn't take the time to call an Airworthiness Inspector and do the ACN paperwork doesn't change that. All it does is keep the matter from taking paper form, for which the pilot should be grateful, since it makes it easier for the pilot to close the action (no follow-up with the FSDO required).
 
never never never never carry your logbook with you unless you are a student pilot.
Too many nevers, and not enough exceptions. You might have a problem showing up for a practical test without your logbook. And Recreational and Sport Pilots sometimes must have their logbooks with them, ntoo.

Take that advice for what you paid for it. But its good advice.
If you revise it to "Never carry your pilot logbook with you unless the regulations require it," I'd call it excellent advice.
 
Unless he was an ASI he could only call and get one out there to do the paper.
If he wasn't an Aviation Safety Inspector (ASI), he wouldn't be doing ramp checks. I think what you meant is that as an ASI (Operations), he is supposed to consult with an ASI (Airworthiness) before writing an ACN. However, that can be done over the phone -- the Airworthiness Inspector need not be physically present to peform a personal inspection, and may rely on the Operations Inspector's observations to say an ACN is warranted.
 
:needpics:

Should the OP have made the call that the tire was no good? Hard to say without seeing it. But IMHO if the Inspector's words were "I think this tire is unairworthy", does that constitute a flag? Or should he have said "it is unairworthy?" Since no paperwork was started I would take that as advice to get it checked by a A&P, not a definitive statement. But then I live with a lawyer and was a Safety Officer at one time so maybe I'm a nitpicker. :dunno:
 
What happens when you find out the "FSDO Guy" was a retreaded Navy Avionics type from the operations side of the FSDO and had no authority to tell you any thing about airworthiness of your aircraft,
Operations Inspectors do indeed have the authority to give you their professional opinion of the airworthiness of your airplane.

and the tire passes the ICAs from the manufacturer.
Then you document that and keep flying.

I would definitely know who was ramping me.
You do as soon as they present their credentials -- an FAA Aviation Safety Inspector.

"Hi, I'm an airworthiness inspector from FSDO," or they may simply say they are a ASI, or a safety inspector, I've heard all 3 phrases used.

When you hear that, shut the hell up, answer the questions, be polite, and don't babble, they only know what you tell them and that can be used against you later.
Good advice.

"may I see you certificate","Yes sir".
"May I look in your aircraft", "not unless you have reason, sir".
they are not allowed to touch your aircraft with out your permission.
Close, but not quite correct. They can look in the windows without permission, and they can inspect the exterior without your permission. Entry without your knowledge/presence is, however, forbidden.

But tread lightly, you are teasing the bear.
Affirmative. What you want them to write in their report is "Polite and cooperative."
 
This thread got me all scared that I'm gonna get ramp checked on Sunday morning when I fly.
Ramp checks aren't scary if you know you're playing by the rules.

I have done a W&B before on the plane and I know that just me in it is fine, but anything more than two will full tanks isn't.
Then take Groucho's advice -- don't fly with anything more than two will full tanks.

I also know we have the airframe logs for the plane, I just don't know where they are. I've never been in the hangar yet.
If you're flying the plane solo, you bloody well should have seen documentation that the aircraft's maintenance records are in order, because when you're solo, you are absolutely responsible if they aren't. Before you fly that plane again, grab your instructor and have him/her show you the records documenting the aircraft's legal airworthiness.
 
If he wasn't an Aviation Safety Inspector (ASI), he wouldn't be doing ramp checks. I think what you meant is that as an ASI (Operations), he is supposed to consult with an ASI (Airworthiness) before writing an ACN. However, that can be done over the phone -- the Airworthiness Inspector need not be physically present to peform a personal inspection, and may rely on the Operations Inspector's observations to say an ACN is warranted.

Ops inspectors can and do make ramp checks, Specially when there is a FSDO flight examiner scheduled to give a PPL practical in that aircraft.

Seldom do we see any FSDO personal acting alone, the policy is work in pairs, At least at SEA FSDO, you never see just one.

Ops inspectors made so many mistakes, that the privilege of hanging paper on aircraft was taken away and I don't know if they even carry the forms any more.

But knowing each FSDO works as an independent agency policies vary, so what happens in Texas may or may not effect you and me.

Having the Fairchild I get ramped each time I take it to any function where the FAA has a booth.

I believe the form for the ANC must be signed by the ASI, so doing it over the phone is questionable.
 
What "FSDO guy" other than an ASI conducts Part 91 Ramp Inspections ("ramp checks")?

In every inspection I have encountered by SEA FSDO the operations, or Avionics type is doing the talking and the ASI is walking around the aircraft.

Remember up here they operate in pairs, there is always a ASI present, but who places the X in the block of their activity sheet who knows or cares.

I have been thru this scenario several times with my customers the latest one a ops inspector not knowing what a stainless steel and teflon hose looked like, they thought it was an unauthorized replacement part. and it was me who phoned the ASI (my PMI) and had him fix the problem.
 
Ops inspectors can and do make ramp checks, Specially when there is a FSDO flight examiner scheduled to give a PPL practical in that aircraft.
At least around here, when the FSDO is giving a practical test, you go to the FSDO, not the other way around. Then, while the Ops Inspector is conducting the ground portion, an Airworthiness Inspector is going over both the maintenance records and the aircraft.

Seldom do we see any FSDO personal acting alone, the policy is work in pairs, At least at SEA FSDO, you never see just one.
That may be the policy at the SEA FSDO, but I've seen Ops Inspectors wandering around local airports without an Airworthiness minder far more times than I've seen them with one.

Ops inspectors made so many mistakes, that the privilege of hanging paper on aircraft was taken away and I don't know if they even carry the forms any more.
The Operations Inspector is required to coordinate with an Airworthiness Inspector to issue the ACN, but I don't believe the Airworhiness Inspector need be physically present.
A. Responsibility for Airworthiness. The airworthiness of the aircraft is the responsibility of the pilot (part 91, § 91.3) and monitored by airworthiness inspectors. However, if an operations inspector finds an obviously unairworthy aircraft, it is the responsibility of the operations inspector to see that an Aircraft Condition Notice (FAA Form 8620-1) is issued. If accompanied by an airworthiness inspector, he or she may issue FAA Form 8620-1. However, an operations inspector may have to contact the nearest Flight Standards office to have an airworthiness inspector issue the notice.
http://fsims.faa.gov/WDocs/8900.1/V06 Surveillance/Chapter 01/06_001_004.htm

But knowing each FSDO works as an independent agency policies vary, so what happens in Texas may or may not effect you and me.
FAA Order 8900.1 applies to all FSDO's and the Inspectors in them.

Having the Fairchild I get ramped each time I take it to any function where the FAA has a booth.
No comment.

I believe the form for the ANC must be signed by the ASI, so doing it over the phone is questionable.
Yes, an ACN must be issued by an Airworthiness Inspector, but it doesn't have to be signed by an Airworthiness ASI on the spot.
 
Of course Ron is correct - never carry a logbook unless legally required. Have you put your last 10 flights in it? Does it show you legal for your trip today? Have the required endorsements in this log book? Many of us have 2 or 3 - our original endorsements for HP/Complex/hi alt are three log books ago - so that means you need to carry all of them to provide legality to operate - it is best to not carry the book and to keep it in a safe secure location.

Personally, my student pilot / medical does in my wallet - this way I ALWAYS have the photo id and required docs - of course nto benig a student pilot I'm carry my cert, medical, SI and the DC SFRA cert as well.

If you do not have the log book you can make sure it is up to snuff before anyone sees it - thats the basic rule.

Next, when it comes to what you tell a FSDO - they are not required to know your destination, and simply put - answer their questions. No additional fluff. Yes - it appears rude - but you will never give them additional lines of inquiry if you give them yes,no, I don't recall or only specific one word answers.

are you going flying today: I was planning on it. or Yes.

Do you have your logbook: No. [don't be defensive you are not required to have it]

Do you have the aircraft logs? No I do not, they are in a secure location assuming that they are not with you.

When was the last annual inspection: last October.

When was the last 100 hour - last October [unless it is subject to one]

May I see your airman certificate and medical. YES. [he did not ask you to produce them - only if you would permit inspection - yes you will - I personally have required the ASI to ASK for me to produce them - makes it alot clearer - unless he askes for them to be produced it could be argued that you voluntarily surrendered them - if he asked you to produce them then they it comes within the ambit the FAR that requires you to do so for inspection]

Do you have a hp endorsement - yes I do.

may I see it. Yes but not today, it is in my logbook

The weather looks low today, do you have an instrument rating? Yes.

Does this aircraft have the required certifications to operate IFR? Yes. [he did not ask you to prove it]

May I see them? Yes you may, but they are in the aircraft logs which are not here -


ANSWER THE DARN QUESTION ASKED - Don't volunteer anything that is not within the scope of the question. Be friendly but also understand that the ASI job is to ground you.
 
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Of course Ron is correct - never carry a logbook unless legally required. Have you put your last 10 flights in it? Does it show you legal for your trip today? Have the required endorsements in this log book? Many of us have 2 or 3 - our original endorsements for HP/Complex/hi alt are three log books ago - so that means you need to carry all of them to provide legality to operate - it is best to not carry the book and to keep it in a safe secure location.

Personally, my student pilot / medical does in my wallet - this way I ALWAYS have the photo id and required docs - of course nto benig a student pilot I'm carry my cert, medical, SI and the DC SFRA cert as well.

If you do not have the log book you can make sure it is up to snuff before anyone sees it - thats the basic rule.
You do realize that when they want to see your log, and you can't show it to them, you get to make a trip to FSDO.

I have nothing to hide, I have my BFRs on time, I have my Medical on time, (and pass) I have all the endorsements I need to do what I'm doing. and if there is a problem with my logs I want it pointed out and fixed.

I carry my pilot logs but not the aircraft log, I see no reason to carry the aircraft logs, they are in my safe because they are very valuable as the aircraft looses value If they are destroyed. I can replace my pilot logs but not the aircraft logs as they are history of the aircraft and show things that could never be replaced.

my flight bag in the back seat of the 24 when ever I take it any where. the log is out of site, and can't not be seen from outside. I carry it every where I go. and do not leave it unattended.

IMHO when you are smart enough to fly, you must be smart enough to care for your logs.
 
Of course Ron is correct - never carry a logbook unless legally required.

<snip>

ANSWER THE DARN QUESTION ASKED - Don't volunteer anything that is not within the scope of the question. Be friendly but also understand that the ASI job is to ground you.

That reminds me of this gem from Ron's checkride advice:

14. Avoid this conversation:

Examiner - Q: Do you have a pencil?
Applicant - A: I have a #2, a mechanical, a red one...
Examiner - Q: Do you have a pencil?
Applicant - A: I also have an assortment of pens, and some highlighters...
Examiner - Q: Do you have a pencil?
Applicant - A: Yes.
Examiner - Thank you.

One of the hardest things to do when you’re nervous and pumped up is to shut up and answer the question. I've watched people talk themselves into a corner by incorrectly answering a question that was never asked, or by adding an incorrect appendix to the correct answer to the question that was. If the examiner wants more, he'll tell you.
 
my flight bag in the back seat of the 24 when ever I take it any where. the log is out of site, and can't not be seen from outside. I carry it every where I go. and do not leave it unattended.
That's fine for you, Tom, but I don't like carrying my flight bag into the grocery store when I stop on the way home from the airport.
 
You do realize that when they want to see your log, and you can't show it to them, you get to make a trip to FSDO.

I have nothing to hide, I have my BFRs on time, I have my Medical on time, (and pass) I have all the endorsements I need to do what I'm doing. and if there is a problem with my logs I want it pointed out and fixed.

I carry my pilot logs but not the aircraft log, I see no reason to carry the aircraft logs, they are in my safe because they are very valuable as the aircraft looses value If they are destroyed. I can replace my pilot logs but not the aircraft logs as they are history of the aircraft and show things that could never be replaced.

my flight bag in the back seat of the 24 when ever I take it any where. the log is out of site, and can't not be seen from outside. I carry it every where I go. and do not leave it unattended.

IMHO when you are smart enough to fly, you must be smart enough to care for your logs.

If they want to see your logbok they have a reason to want to see it - which means that you need to make sure it is up to the recording standards before an ASI sees it. If they want to see a logbook - it is not a random check - they are specifically looking at you now. Which changes the dynamic quite a bit.

Folks need to see that distinction . . . . ASI's know that a private and up are not required to be in the possession of their logs when operating under the privileges of their certificates - so if they are doing a ramp check and want to see your log book specifically there have a reason for doing so - and in most cases are now targeting you specifically. A random, check em all ramp check, if pretty routine - but once they start dialing in on someone you have some rights at that point. And asking why they want you to come in to see them is a start.

I would ALWAYS ask why and then make sure you gert a letter compelling attendance. The reason for the logbook inspection needs to be spelled out because in my case if they wantto see a HP endorsement its not in my current log book - or if they want my current bfr, its not in my current logbook. If they call me in - I am bringing my CURRENT logbook if they are for my 'logbook' - and if they want to see something else they can specifically ask for it. Then you know what they are fishing for.

I have represented clients and done exactly that- bring what they ask for because they refused to be specific. We show up without what they are fishing for - I tell them they had the chance to be specific and instead were vague - I get the look instead of the airman. The ASI then tells me what their concerns are - then we resolve it fast and without further issues. They ASI looks bad because he was not specific. The airman just follows the advice of counsel and we find out why they have a hardon for this guy.

Often they get a random complaint from someone - so and so lacks a HP or whatever endorsement and they are operating an HP or ASES or whatever without a rating or required endorsement. So they show up on a couple of weekends trying to find the guy flying and ramp everyone else to pad their availability stats. Yes it happens and no they are not here to help you.
 
Would there be any benefit to carry a copy of your endorsement page(s) such as the last BFR, and HP endorsement?
 
Would there be any benefit to carry a copy of your endorsement page(s) such as the last BFR, and HP endorsement?

It's not required. As long as you have it in your personal log book.

I think he is saying as a means of avoiding a trip to the FSDO in the event of a ramp check. Personally, I think it would beg the question of "why have you chosen to carry these specific items not required to be in your possession but not others."
 
Too many nevers, and not enough exceptions. You might have a problem showing up for a practical test without your logbook. And Recreational and Sport Pilots sometimes must have their logbooks with them, ntoo.

If you revise it to "Never carry your pilot logbook with you unless the regulations require it," I'd call it excellent advice.
Interesting. I had been under the impression that once certified, no pilot had to carry his logbook unless for a certain reason (BFR, checkride, and such). Since once I get started, Sport Pilot is my goal, can you show me where I can find the conditions under which I would have to carry my logbook (other then the one I know - when I'm a student)?
 
Carrying your logbook, when not required, can only hurt you in a ramp check situation. Let's say you land with one of your friends and get checked, you're current, but didn't log last weeks 3 TOLS, so you show the logbook without those 3 TOLS and now you AREN'T current to carry passengers!:yikes:
I am not saying anyone would falsify a logbook entry, but given 24 hours to bring it to the FSDO would allow time to make sure everything was correctly logged. :D
 
Interesting. I had been under the impression that once certified, no pilot had to carry his logbook unless for a certain reason (BFR, checkride, and such). Since once I get started, Sport Pilot is my goal, can you show me where I can find the conditions under which I would have to carry my logbook (other then the one I know - when I'm a student)?

61.51

(3) A sport pilot must carry his or her logbook or other evidence of required authorized instructor endorsements on all flights.
 
Simply by following the ICAs for the tire.

Not knowing what the inspector saw, or the condition of the tire, I'd hate to say if he was right, or just puffing his chest and flexing his authority.

In this case no damage was done, no loss of revenue, so I'd just move on and ignore it.

I suspect that most folks don't know (off hand) what the ICAs are for a particular item, and neither do the inspectors. Some things don't even have explicit ICAs.

If an inspector says that something is not airworthy and you decide to fly anyway, that inspector can cause a ton of problems whether he's right or wrong in the end. Part of operating an aircraft as a pilot includes exercising good judgment, and deliberately operating an aircraft when an inspector has mentioned something to be "unairworthy" doesn't seem like an exercise in good judgment. Better to ask for clarification, and debate on that point, if the situation warrants.

In this case, I wouldn't have asked for clarification because it was irrelevant--the OP was done flying for the day, and had an opportunity for a mechanic to evaluate the item in question.



JKG
 
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This thread got me all scared that I'm gonna get ramp checked on Sunday morning when I fly.

I have done a W&B before on the plane and I know that just me in it is fine, but anything more than two will full tanks isn't. I also know we have the airframe logs for the plane, I just don't know where they are. I've never been in the hangar yet.

My rental place has a W & B you can do when you rent the plane. You link it to your reservation when you schedule the plane. You can also link to your reservation the fact that you did a weather check, etc.
 
I think I'll have my medical laminated when I get it. That way I can keep it with my certificate/actual license whenever I get that.

When I was a student pilot, they had to write on my medical. I assume they don't do that after you become a real pilot? All future sign offs go in the log book right?
 
61.51

(3) A sport pilot must carry his or her logbook or other evidence of required authorized instructor endorsements on all flights.
OK - I guess that narrows it down to..... Always! Because at this point, I'd say I'd probably end up flying out of LZU, where there is a tower...
 
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