Ramp Check

[timwinters]

Must... have... more... details!

you know...I'd really love to...but I better plead the 5th on that one!

(especially since I use my real name here and this site is google searchable)



OTOH...there may be a PM heading your way...or an email if you have it listed here.

hmmm...I guess your user ID would BE an email address, eh?

 

[cowman]

On the quite long list of rules and regulations I feel like are government overreach, ramp checks are somewhere near the bottom if they even make it on the list.

And I think you could make a pretty good case that the ramp check boogeyman is pretty much the main reason to keep one's documentation current...

That said, I can find an airworthiness certificate and registration status with a tail number search. Pretty sure the same is possible somehow for airman certficates and if it isn't to the public I'm sure the FSDO has access.

So what exactly is the point of me having to carry all that paper around with me in the airplane?

On a more practical note, what happens to me if I fly out somewhere to go fishing and my wallet & pilot certificate fall into the lake and I get ramp checked on my way home? I don't imagine many pilots would voluntarily strand themselves and/or their aircraft over that until the FAA got around re-issuing a certificate.

 

[nosehair]

Oh, thank God, I can rest well tonight. I see our ramp check system is working...the natives are restless.

 

[RotorAndWing]

That said, I can find an airworthiness certificate and registration status with a tail number search. Pretty sure the same is possible somehow for airman certficates and if it isn't to the public I'm sure the FSDO has access.

They do.

So what exactly is the point of me having to carry all that paper around with me in the airplane?

Because those pieces of paper are required by regulation. While you and most other owners/pilots are law abiding citizens their are those that are not. Ramp checks have uncovered illegal aircraft (out of annual, illegally modified, unairworthy, etc) as well as pilots without proper ratings (flying IFR without an instrument rating, carrying paying passengers without a commercial rating, providing flight instruction without a CFI rating, flying without a current medical, etc)

On a more practical note, what happens to me if I fly out somewhere to go fishing and my wallet & pilot certificate fall into the lake and I get ramp checked on my way home? I don't imagine many pilots would voluntarily strand themselves and/or their aircraft over that until the FAA got around re-issuing a certificate.

http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certification/airmen_services/

I've done ramp inspections where the pilot didn't have his medical certificate or pilot certificate with him. I asked him to produce it for me at a later date, I verified he actually had been issued the certificate then I reminded him to please carry it with him in the future.

 

[RotorAndWing]

Although I understand the fear of ramp checks, I think they are part of flying, just like a license check while driving. Do I think they are useful? not really, will they find unlicensed pilots? probably not. Unairworthy airplanes? I bet if they dig enough, almost any aircraft can be deemed unairworthy.

You would be surprised at what is uncovered, and without really "digging".

While I was there this is a sampling of what we found:

Pilot flying without a medical (medical revoked)

Pilot flying without proper authorization (landed a seaplane on a lake with passengers, taxied to marina) no seaplane rating

Pilot flying a helicopter with passenger (no helicopter rating)

Pilot flying IFR (medical denied, not current IFR (by years) )

Illegal modified aircraft

Out of annual aircraft

 

[ARFlyer]

I've only been ramp checked once and it wasn't even a true ramp check. A FAA inspector, that I know, wanted to show my student what a proper ramp check looked like. So I played along and said I had to go to the restroom.

 

[poadeleted20]

First let me plant my flag. What they are doing is unconstitutional, period. I don't care what some scumbag lawyer who got appointed as a judge for supporting another scumbag lawyer's election as governor says - it is unconstitutional.

I gather, then, that you reject the legal standard put forth in Marbury v Madison, 5 U.S. 137 (1803), that the US Supreme Court is the ultimate arbiter of what is/is not constitutional?

 

[poadeleted20]

Exactly. But a ramp check is still a mini shake down. You are not under arrest. You may walk away at any point.

That is true, but it doesn't change the legal fact that you do so after the Inspector requests that you present your pilot and medical certificates and before you present them you are in violation of Federal law, and subject to various legal consequences for that violation. Like they say about the Army -- they can't make you do anything, but they can make you wish to God you had done what they wanted.

You are not required to answer any questions. Especially questions that might incriminate yourself. You are required to show your certificate and medical if so requested. You are required to show the airworthiness certificate and other required paper work. If you do not want to talk to the fed, then don't. I just defer all questions to my chief pilot. At the end of the conversation, if any, I'll ask the fed if (s)he finds the aircraft unairworthy.

All true, but not a good way to keep that Inspector from wondering what you're hiding by not answering and then devoting resources to digging out the answers one way or another.

I always let the fed set the tone. If (s)he comes up to me and treats me with respect, I do the same. I have had a couple that were real a holes and I treated them that way, then called their boss.

Repaying rudeness with rudeness is not the best way to deal with rudeness. Simply be polite, and then call their boss -- revenge being a dish best served cold.

 

[Fearless Tower]

I haven't been ramp-checked in over 1,500 hours. I have had a couple of run-ins with the TSA at smaller airports and learned that if you tell them to go f*** themselves, the local cops WILL show up...quickly.

That just goes to show how worthless that organization is. You tell them to F off and they have to call the locals in. Barney Fife is right.

 

[BillTIZ]

How are you guys having "multiple ramp checks" over the years. I think I have had one in 25 years and that was a non-event.

This was my first in 40yrs of flying.

I was with a flight crew once when the FAA approached for a ramp check. The pilot commented that this was a US Govt registered aircraft, go away we are busy. The FAA Rep said, good day, turned and walked away.

 

[Morgan3820]

This was my first in 40yrs of flying.

I was with a flight crew once when the FAA approached for a ramp check. The pilot commented that this was a US Govt registered aircraft, go away we are busy. The FAA Rep said, good day, turned and walked away.

I wonder if that tactic will work with my Warrior?